London Midland 321s/319s discussion

[DarloRich]

8 cars ( none of them 319's) on the 07:14 Bletchley to Euston this morning! Someone else lost on the LM short formed unit roulette wheel this morning!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think slapping the guard concerned would be helpful - they need to fix the problem

Slapping the guard saves them money, fixing the problem costs them money.

I wonder what London Midland will decide to do

 

[zn1]

heres a crazy idea, why dont LM call Bedford, SU or EVEN ZN1 , and get them to sort the failures out. Theres not alot of science or computing power in a 319, they are essentially what is considered now old school traction.ZN1 is central to BY and Kings heath, get em in and sorted, its not rocket science...ohh sorry in todays railway it is rocket science to arrange moves to a Railway workshop, silly kev

 

[GadgetMan]

Assuming for a second that the 319s are genuinely out of action due to faults - why would they then be sat at Bletchley rather than Kingsheath where they would need to be for faults to be rectified?

 

[plastictaffy]

They only have 4 319's. Only Watford guards - circa 16 men - sign them, and only a handful of drivers sign them at present. Most of the trains that 321's ran on in the mornings were worked by Bletchley men, who don't (as yet) sign them.

Be interesting to see what turns up on the 2224 ex-Euston tonight, as it's booked for an 8 car 321 on the diagram.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And now one of the 319s on the Abbey branch has sat down and had a tantrum.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/108011.aspx

 

[Kristofferson]

Well, that's the Abbey line done til... Sunday then?

 

[Silverlinky]

unit 013 came across with more faults than you could shake a stick at, takes time to rectify multiple problems.
429 was being used for training but was without interior seat covers and the like so that is now being fitted
460 is being used for driver training and 216 is/was on the Abbey.

Obviously 4 into 7 didn't go, or actually 5x321's were in use with two spares, so 4 into 5 almost went, but the availability of the 350's, already tight, has taken a hit with quite a few of them suffering pantograph damage in recent weeks.

 

[oversteer]

Thanks Silverlinky. It just feels so amateur. Surely LM would have known the state of the 319s before they got them; this mini cascade has been in the running for a year.

Losing some 350s unexpectedly is fair enough, but why let the 321s go until all the 319s were ready for passenger service?

 

[Silverlinky]

Thanks Silverlinky. It just feels so amateur. Surely LM would have known the state of the 319s before they got them; this mini cascade has been in the running for a year.

Losing some 350s unexpectedly is fair enough, but why let the 321s go until all the 319s were ready for passenger service?

Because they went off-lease! You can't just keep them as long as you feel like it! Like you say the 319 cascade has been running for ages, similarly plans for the 321's have been ong in the pipeline, ie returning them, booking paths, sourcing traincrew, booking their slots in the maintenance depot etc etc. Its all planned......LM seem genuinely surprised at the state of 013, perhaps the matter will be taken up with the leasing company and in turn the former operator. Fact is it arrived a long way off being ready for service.

 

[zn1]

Logic dictates that a depot wont let its best units go to another TOC, they will send the worst performers they can to another depot, and I apologise for my comments, London Midland havent worked out their Min fleet requirements + the Maintenance spares.

6 units - 5 + 1maintenance would have been the better choice, or 4 +2 at the moment, 319 + 321 can bang up together to make an 8 car so compatabibilty isnt an issue.

Guess they should have looked at the failure sheets of these units and then decided what to do.

Now if My memory serves correctly 013 used to be a bad performer many years ago, im going back to early 90's, she might even have been a christmas tree at SU for a while and then when she was finally needed was literally rebuilt, and then finally sorted herself out.

Also - the thameslink and LM lines are different, it will take a while for this micro fleet to get used to the lines operated on.

come LM get a Grip this is basic Short Term Unit maintenance planning, look at the paperwork, dont rely on gemini to give you all the facts, try it on paper or card system to see the bigger picture

 

[Tetchytyke]

Because they went off-lease! You can't just keep them as long as you feel like it!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the Great Northern 321s that were off lease, not the London Midland ones?

My understanding was that Great Northern (prop: GoVia) wanted to keep their 321s, so it was agreed that London Midland (prop: GoVia) would lose the 321s instead, being replaced by 319s from Thameslink (prop: GoVia).

The whole thing has been a complete mess since the word go. London Midland couldn't keep the job moving when they had seven 321s (the 321 diagrams, especially the 1654 EUS-TRI, have been regularly short-formed ever since the December 2014 timetable recast), how they thought they'd manage with only four is beyond belief.

As for the state of the 319s, a) they've been maintained by GoVia so the blame still falls with them, and b) depots send the demics away first, as any fule kno.

Still, as we saw with the Watford blockade last December, where LM timetabled the absolute busiest train to have additional stops at Bushey and Harrow and then were amazed when it rocked up 30 delay minutes on the first day, forward planning doesn't seem to be their strong point.

 

[Kristofferson]

LM have always seemed to be one of the most competent TOCs, but their recent decision-making has been awful (regularly shafting KGL and APS during disruption, the 319 debacle, restrictions on what the Twitter staff are allowed to say...). Is there someone new in charge this year?

 

[LowLevel]

Most competent? They've been a joke for years as far as I can tell. Promising start for the first year or two then gave up when it became clear the franchise was a financial basket case.

 

[87015]

Because they went off-lease! You can't just keep them as long as you feel like it! Like you say the 319 cascade has been running for ages, similarly plans for the 321's have been ong in the pipeline, ie returning them, booking paths, sourcing traincrew, booking their slots in the maintenance depot etc etc. Its all planned......LM seem genuinely surprised at the state of 013, perhaps the matter will be taken up with the leasing company and in turn the former operator. Fact is it arrived a long way off being ready for service.

Two or three were available however as shown by LO. LM should have know this long before LO...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most competent? They've been a joke for years as far as I can tell. Promising start for the first year or two then gave up when it became clear the franchise was a financial basket case.

Don't recall a promising start given the massive levels of cancellations and chaos for the first year on the WCML at least!

 

[DarloRich]

have LM been the victim of the old quick dump the depot demics on the new operator while we keep the good ones scam

schoolboy error there!

 

[Tetchytyke]

LM have always seemed to be one of the most competent TOCs, but their recent decision-making has been awful

I think their glossy Ray Stenning livery makes them look an awful lot more competent than they are.

I remember people in the industry laughing at me when I moved to Hemel, wishing me luck with LM. Shame they were right

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could be worse. Could be FGW.

 

[Kristofferson]

Maybe it's just my perspective then. I moved from a Greater Anglia area to Hemel about 4 years ago - so LM's Desiros and generally excellent reliability/service recovery were like a ray of light in comparison.

 

[capital12]

Could be worse. Could be FGW.

Or any other Govia franchise! There'll all pretty bad!

Such a shame, as Go-Ahead was a good group under Chris Moyes and then Keith Ludeman after the death of Moyes - however it's fallen off a cliff since David Brown took over!

 

[MK Tom]

Any news on today's diagrams?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any news on today's diagrams?

I was wondering too. I am planning to use the 0714 tomorrow, but I'll avoid it if it's going to be 4.350/2.

 

[87015]

Any news on today's diagrams?

No mainline 319s, various 350 shortforms but can't recall specifics.

LOROL have 321414 in service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No mainline 319s, various 350 shortforms but can't recall specifics.

I often defend LM when others lay into them, but this time this is getting utterly and grindingly incompetent.

 

[bb21]

Where are LOROL using the 321 on?

 

[Bletchleyite]

8.350 on 0714 ex BLY this morning. No sign of any 319s.

 

[DarloRich]

8.350 on 0714 ex BLY this morning. No sign of any 319s.

well apart from the two in the sidings

Although i did see several orange clad chaps clambering on them - progress?

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are LOROL using the 321 on?

Supposedly Romford / Upminster. Has to be somewhere in the West Anglia bit of LO as they are AC units.

 

[samj]

319460 on the branch today

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tweeted LM earlier, and supposedly it's looking like 319s will make the mainline on Thursday, hopefully but no guarantees it seems.