London Midland 321s/319s discussion

[craig87034]

There is a pair of 319's in Bletchley sidings so I assume the 0713 Bletchley-Euston was a 350

 

[MK Tom]

Which 319s are those? Because I'm told 419 and 216 are sharing the Abbey line, so are they 460 and 013?

As mentioned in my earlier message I'll be going for the 17:05 EUS-MKC this evening between BLY and MKC.

 

[87015]

As mentioned in my earlier message I'll be going for the 17:05 EUS-MKC this evening between BLY and MKC.

Don't bother, its a 4 car 350 and already shown as short formed. No 319s out again - 319429/460 have been in Bletchley Yard since Sunday.

 

[MK Tom]

Don't bother, its a 4 car 350 and already shown as short formed. No 319s out again - 319429/460 have been in Bletchley Yard since Sunday.

Oh right, so this has changed?

The diagram for LM 319s this week is 2B10 0714 Bletchley to Euston and 2K91 1705 Euston to Milton Keynes Central.

The 1747 ex Milton Keynes Central is booked for two 350s.

321417 has gone to Wolverton Works and 321413 is on its way to Ilford.

 

[oversteer]

And now one of the Tring stoppers has been cancelled due to a train fault.
I hope LM are taken to task over this, they clearly don't have proper coverage for the departed 321s..

 

[Bletchleyite]

And now one of the Tring stoppers has been cancelled due to a train fault.
I hope LM are taken to task over this, they clearly don't have proper coverage for the departed 321s..

Are LM penalised for short forms? Or only by the angry Twitterati?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I hope LM are taken to task over this, they clearly don't have proper coverage for the departed 321s..

But their Twitter this morning is saying it isn't their fault as they're "running all the available carriages".

That's the trouble with London Midland. It is always someone else's fault.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But their Twitter this morning is saying it isn't their fault as they're "running all the available carriages".

And whose fault is it that 3x319 are not available? Oh, that'd be LM, wouldn't it? Or LM's contractors if Siemens are maintaining them, and LM are responsible for managing their contractors.

As for the short-forms, I think they have chosen badly dropping an 8 to a 4. The 1751 is very quiet in the front 4, they'd do better to drop that to an 8 from 12, as whenever I've used it I've had at least a pair of seats to myself, on occasions during school holidays even a full bay of 6.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also note their Twitter has stopped reporting short-forms unless you ask about them. So to ensure they do, I'm going to ask about them each time I'm travelling

 

[FQ]

But their Twitter this morning is saying it isn't their fault as they're "running all the available carriages".

How many 350s are there in Camden at the moment?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many 350s are there in Camden at the moment?

"available" = "that we can be bothered paying for"

These mileage-based contracts are not great, as they pose a massive barrier to getting stock out of the sidings that is doing nothing to solve a problem without negotiations first. IEP isn't being paid for on that basis, is it?

 

[DarloRich]

There is a pair of 319's in Bletchley sidings so I assume the 0713 Bletchley-Euston was a 350

07:14 Bletchley - Euston was a 4 car 350 again
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"available" = "that we can be bothered paying for"

These mileage-based contracts are not great, as they pose a massive barrier to getting stock out of the sidings that is doing nothing to solve a problem without negotiations first. IEP isn't being paid for on that basis, is it?

but as a business you aren't going to allow yourself to get hammered for extra charges that you don't have to pay for.

 

[Tetchytyke]

How many 350s are there in Camden at the moment?

To be fair to them, they're supposed to be in Camden between the peaks; there will be no off-peak short-forms. Off-peak trains are frequently diagrammed for too few carriages, especially on weekends, but that's a different argument entirely.

Dropping an 8 to a 4 is worse than dropping a 12 to an 8, IMHO. But if they're going to short-form, some trains are better than others. The 0803 off Hemel would be a sensible candidate, as it is usually relatively quiet (it runs 5 minutes behind another train) but that always seems to be a 12, even when everything else is up the spout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

but as a business you aren't going to allow yourself to get hammered for extra charges that you don't have to pay for.

Then everything should be 4-car
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dropping an 8 to a 4 is worse than dropping a 12 to an 8, IMHO. But if they're going to short-form, some trains are better than others. The 0803 off Hemel would be a sensible candidate, as it is usually relatively quiet (it runs 5 minutes behind another train) but that always seems to be a 12, even when everything else is up the spout.

Yes, the choice of short-forms seems rather poor, perhaps they were lazy and chose the operationally easiest ones. 8 to 4 and you'll leave people behind (the 0714 ex BLY certainly will[1]), 12 to 8 and usually it'll just mean the standing passengers are a bit more crammed in.

[1] Last time I saw that short-formed they also ran it fast to EUS to avoid a problem further south causing heavy delay as people tried to cram on.

 

[oversteer]

More short forms today.

So they handed back 7x321s and got 4x319s, of which two serve the Abbey line and the other two are sitting somewhere waiting for staff training?

 

[DarloRich]

4 car again on the 07:14 Bletchley - Euston. I wonder how many were left behind this morning.

More short forms today.

So they handed back 7x321s and got 4x319s, of which two serve the Abbey line and the other two are sitting somewhere waiting for staff training?

two 319's in Bletchley carriage sidings.

Then everything should be 4-car

I thought everything was

 

[Bletchleyite]

4 car again on the 07:14 Bletchley - Euston. I wonder how many were left behind this morning.

There is a definite "can't be bothered" feel about this, isn't there? The 0714 is the wrong train to short-form. Take 4 off a 12 and it'll just be a bit less comfortable, it won't leave people behind in most cases. Some of the morning fasts are particularly quiet and are often seen heading into Euston with empty seats.

I thought everything was

On weekends one could be forgiven for having that impression. At least the Saturday 0010 "vomit comet" off EUS is now 12, it used to be beyond a joke in overcrowding terms while all the other units sat doing nothing at NMP and BLY.

 

[DarloRich]

There is a definite "can't be bothered" feel about this, isn't there? The 0714 is the wrong train to short-form. Take 4 off a 12 and it'll just be a bit less comfortable, it won't leave people behind in most cases. Some of the morning fasts are particularly quiet and are often seen heading into Euston with empty seats.

there aren't any spares on Bletchley and i assume the next (07:3X?) Bletchley - Euston is still and 8 car

 

[Bletchleyite]

there aren't any spares on Bletchley

Not beyond the wit of man to relocate one from Northampton temporarily, surely?

i assume the next (07:3X?) Bletchley - Euston is still and 8 car

0726, it's 12-car with plenty of space. But that isn't so much the point, as it won't leave anyone behind at Bletchley. It's its later role as a Tring stopper where the problem will occur.

 

[Tetchytyke]

0726, it's 12-car with plenty of space. But that isn't so much the point, as it won't leave anyone behind at Bletchley. It's its later role as a Tring stopper where the problem will occur.

Yep, when that 0726 goes down to 8-car it leaves people behind at Kings Langley.

The 0739 is also a 12-car and that usually has plenty of space, even after Watford Junction, as it skips Tring and is only a few minutes behind the 0726 by Hemel.

There's definitely the feeling that London Midland couldn't give a stuff. You see that with their Twitter feed telling outright lies to people about what is causing the overcrowding.

 

[87015]

Not beyond the wit of man to relocate one from Northampton temporarily, surely?



0726, it's 12-car with plenty of space. But that isn't so much the point, as it won't leave anyone behind at Bletchley. It's its later role as a Tring stopper where the problem will occur.

0726 off Bletchley? Been 8v12 all week...

 

[Bletchleyite]

0726 off Bletchley? 8v12 all week...

Oh dear. So that would be 2 successive trains at a few stations.

If you're going to short-form anything, it would be better to be one of the 12-car fasts down to 8, as as I said a number of these get to Euston with spare seats daily.

 

[Tetchytyke]

0726 off Bletchley? Been 8v12 all week...

I'm so glad I'm not commuting from Apsley any more...

I wonder when HLE13 will be back to let us all know why it isn't his employer London Midland's fault?

 

[GatwickDepress]

1705 Euston to MKC is 4 vice 8 as well.

 

[DarloRich]

Not beyond the wit of man to relocate one from Northampton temporarily, surely?

You assume there is a spare there Surely lobbing a unit of a 12 car would be the best approach, although i will happily admit i don't know what loadings are like other than on trains i use!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You assume there is a spare there Surely lobbing a unit of a 12 car would be the best approach, although i will happily admit i don't know what loadings are like other than on trains i use!

No, not a spare, rather remove one from one of the fasts instead, which I guess are run from NMP.

 

[HLE]

Yep, when that 0726 goes down to 8-car it leaves people behind at Kings Langley.

The 0739 is also a 12-car and that usually has plenty of space, even after Watford Junction, as it skips Tring and is only a few minutes behind the 0726 by Hemel.

There's definitely the feeling that London Midland couldn't give a stuff. You see that with their Twitter feed telling outright lies to people about what is causing the overcrowding.

That Twitter feed has gone right downhill in the last 12 months.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just asked Twitter what's up with the 319s and when they will be in service, and there are apparently technical faults and they don't know when they will be fixed, apparently

 

[oversteer]

Apparently a guard told one trainload that the 319s weren't in service because there were too few staff trained on it.
It got reported on Twitter and by the looks of it went up the chain because there was a pretty robust denial all morning.
Hope the guard doesn't get in trouble. Have to watch what you tell a trainload of people

 

[Tetchytyke]

So it's either a technical fault- in which case it's GoVia's fault for not maintaining them- or it's a lack of staffing. In which case it's, er, GoVia's fault.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it's either a technical fault- in which case it's GoVia's fault for not maintaining them- or it's a lack of staffing. In which case it's, er, GoVia's fault.

It wouldn't surprise me if it were the case that both things were an issue - i.e. the units are broken *and* not enough staff are trained on them, or possibly the units being broken has prevented the staff training taking place.

I don't think slapping the guard concerned would be helpful - they need to fix the problem and get the things out, or if they can't do that they need to do some swift rediagramming so the short-forms are on less busy services than they presently are so at least no-one is left behind (i.e. they should all be 12 to 8). Or even hire in some LHCS for a couple of peak services; shame the Pretendolino is no longer an easy option.