London Gateway electrification?

[Nottingham59]

The ears and noses of the neighbours would welcome that replacing a 66 idling for ages at the end of the garden, occasionally revving up to nudge the train along for the next few aggregate wagons to be unloaded!

and far cheaper operating cost per hour doing that sort of activity.

 

[Meerkat]

and far cheaper operating cost per hour doing that sort of activity.

Much nicer environment for the driver too presumably!

 

[Trainbike46]

Well, it’s around 8 single track kilometres.

But presumably no bridges/tunnels to deal with, and no new feeder stations needed, right?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The ears and noses of the neighbours would welcome that replacing a 66 idling for ages at the end of the garden, occasionally revving up to nudge the train along for the next few aggregate wagons to be unloaded!

and far cheaper operating cost per hour doing that sort of activity.

Much nicer environment for the driver too presumably!

Indeed.What is not to like?

 

[zwk500]

Indeed.What is not to like?

Mind you, from listening to 91s in York station and 373s at St Pancras when an Electric is going some they can also make a fair old racket! Although the gentle clicking as it cools is far preferable to the 66's spin cycle.

 

[Bald Rick]

But presumably no bridges/tunnels to deal with, and no new feeder stations needed, right?

There’s one bridge, but I’m 99% sure it’s clear.

 

[Nottingham59]

I don't know much about the operations of a shunting yard at a port like Gateway. After locomotives arrive, do they just sit there on the sidings, always connected to the rake of flats, whilst overhead cranes lift off the containers? And the same for when the flats are reloaded? Or do they detach from the train and go off to sit in a headshunt somewhere?

Either way, there is the option of recharging a battery locomotive by plugging it in to a Megawatt-scale charger at the trackside.

The emerging MCAS standard for EV trucks would seem to be an appropriate standard for this. Or whatever 3-phase supply that the Clayton CB45 uses. And because it doesn't need the unbalanced single phase that OHLE uses, the grid supply for recharging batteries will cost much less than that needed to power OHLE.

EDIT: Looking at Felixstowe on Google Earth, I see lots of rakes of container flats but no locomotives. So I assume the locos usually drop off one rake, and then in fairly short order shunt round to pick up another and set off again. So the locos are more or less continuously on the move?

 

[zwk500]

I don't know much about the operations of a shunting yard at a port like Gateway. After locomotives arrive, do they just sit there on the sidings, always connected to the rake of flats, whilst overhead cranes lift off the containers? And the same for when the flats are reloaded? Or do they detach from the train and go off to sit in a headshunt somewhere?

Either way, there is the option of recharging a battery locomotive by plugging it in to a Megawatt-scale charger at the trackside.

The emerging MCAS standard for EV trucks would seem to be an appropriate standard for this. Or whatever 3-phase supply that the Clayton CB45 uses. And because it doesn't need the unbalanced single phase that OHLE uses, the grid supply for recharging batteries will cost much less than that needed to power OHLE.

Sometimes they sit and wait, sometimes they get used to shunt wagons around, sometimes they detach and run light to a yard for exam or next duty and sometimes they attach onto a different set of wagons that have been loaded ready for departure.

Give them a battery capable of an hours running and they'd be fine as long as there's OLE as far as the signal protecting the departure onto the main line, I'd imagine.

 

[Nottingham59]

Sometimes they sit and wait, sometimes they get used to shunt wagons around, sometimes they detach and run light to a yard for exam or next duty and sometimes they attach onto a different set of wagons that have been loaded ready for departure.

Give them a battery capable of an hours running and they'd be fine as long as there's OLE as far as the signal protecting the departure onto the main line, I'd imagine.

I see. Thank you. So basically it's going to be a compromise - wire as far as you need to for the locomotives to run on batteries in the port itself, with enough charge remaining to get back onto the wires hauling a 775m intermodal train behind it. (Though a 93 could always start up the diesel if necessary.)

== == ==
For bimode EMUs, it seems OHLE is financially justified when there are around 6-8tph in each direction. (Though I can't be sure as they haven't published the business case for MML electrification). Trimley on the Felixstowe between 1pm and 2pm today had three freights and one passenger train in each direction, which is 8tph on mostly single track. So I would expect OHLE electrification of the Felixstowe branch to pay for itself as soon as the diesel locomotives are replaced by bimodes.

But East Tilbury today only had around one train per hour running to London Gateway. And it's double track. So I cannot imagine that electrifying the Thames Haven branch to London Gateway port would ever be justified financially.

 

[Trainbike46]

I see. Thank you. So basically it's going to be a compromise - wire as far as you need to for the locomotives to run on batteries in the port itself, with enough charge remaining to get back onto the wires hauling a 775m intermodal train behind it. (Though a 93 could always start up the diesel if necessary.)

== == ==
For bimode EMUs, it seems OHLE is financially justified when there are around 6-8tph in each direction. (Though I can't be sure as they haven't published the business case for MML electrification). Trimley on the Felixstowe between 1pm and 2pm today had three freights and one passenger train in each direction, which is 8tph on mostly single track. So I would expect OHLE electrification of the Felixstowe branch to pay for itself as soon as the diesel locomotives are replaced by bimodes.

But East Tilbury today only had around one train per hour running to London Gateway. And it's double track. So I cannot imagine that electrifying the Thames Haven branch to London Gateway port would ever be justified financially.

I think your numbers of trains are too high, but even accepting that, you need to take the costs into consideration. And while I think both should absolutely be wired, Felixstowe will cost more gateway

 

[mwmbwls]

CILT have produced their wish list map for future freight rail electrification. Their major focus appears to be te FTN route including the the GN/GE to Doncaster together with Southampton Links.The research reveals that only 800 miles of additional electrification is needed in the UK to enable 95% of rail freight to be electrically hauled. The initial 60 miles of Infill electrification is estimated to cost c.£50m p.a. over two years – less than the cost of one road scheme - and represent a ‘no regrets’ way of decarbonising key parts of the UK logistics system.

Rail electrification possible for 95% of UK freight trains, CILT(UK) research reveals | CILT(UK)

The Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport in the UK has released its electrification strategy research which reveals the significant opportunity of electrification across the UK’s rail network.

www.ciltuk.org.uk

 

[zwk500]

CILT have produced their wish list ... that only 800 miles of additional electrification is needed in the UK to enable 95% of rail freight to be electrically hauled.

'Only' 800 miles is London to Glasgow, twice. The CILT list is being discussed on a different thread, but 2 of their immediate projects are reasonable suggestions. London Gateway and Nuneaton - Birmingham would cover a significant majority of the freight from LG.
LG is straightforward and Birmingham-Nuneaton will be needed for the XC Brum-Leicester, as well as offering an electrified diversion to New Street if there's a problem between Cov and International.

 

[The Planner]

Id rather we gauge cleared more routes first for W10. I see Sutton Park is off that map as well.

 

[mwmbwls]

'Only' 800 miles is London to Glasgow, twice. The CILT list is being discussed on a different thread, but 2 of their immediate projects are reasonable suggestions. London Gateway and Nuneaton - Birmingham would cover a significant majority of the freight from LG.
LG is straightforward and Birmingham-Nuneaton will be needed for the XC Brum-Leicester, as well as offering an electrified diversion to New Street if there's a problem between Cov and International.

Apologies for the duplication. Given the Government's attitude to rail investment and electriification in particular, even the CILT's suggestions might be somewhat speculative. A link to the "different thread" would have been helpful.

 

[Meerkat]

How reliable are the changeovers on bimode locos?
ie is the lack of a runoff on to the Gateway branch a notable risk that a freight blocks the junction when the mode change fails?

 

[Bald Rick]

How reliable are the changeovers on bimode locos?
ie is the lack of a runoff on to the Gateway branch a notable risk that a freight blocks the junction when the mode change fails?

Seems to workEd very well on all bimodes for the last 4-5 years…

 

[Meerkat]

Seems to workEd very well on all bimodes for the last 4-5 years…

How many are regularly changing over - ie an 88?

 

[HSTEd]

How many are regularly changing over - ie an 88?

Dozens of Class 80x units are doing it every day!

 

[Meerkat]

Dozens of Class 80x units are doing it every day!

They have multiple engines as redundancy, and if they can’t switch to electric they won’t lose too much time staying on diesel.
An 88/93 only has one diesel, and isn’t going to keep to time, possibly not make it at all on diesel if it can’t use the wires.

 

[zwk500]

Apologies for the duplication. Given the Government's attitude to rail investment and electriification in particular, even the CILT's suggestions might be somewhat speculative. A link to the "different thread" would have been helpful.

Not a problem - this is still a valid thread to discuss the specifics as per LG. I didn't link the other thread initially as I posted from my phone and it's more fiddly.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-freight-trains-cilt-research-reveals.244233/

 

[Bald Rick]

How many are regularly changing over - ie an 88?

AIUI the 88s are changing over regularly on the Daventry flows without issue