London Buses Discussion

[Mikey C]

Massive for Arriva in the area, after the loss of the Fasttrack operations, to win back the 96 after such a long time. I assume the 96, 492 and 428 will have a common fleet, so there will be operational benefits in operating all 3 routes.

I'd completely forgotten that Arriva had won the 96, as was in Dartford earlier today and was very surprised to see Arriva HVs on the 96 (the BYDs aren't in service yet). Indeed at first I thought they must be rail replacement buses, covering the Dartford Junction closure this week

 

[AWCook]

For a forthcoming visit to London, can someone tell me how easy it is to see what's inside Stagecoach depots in London (for numbers). Is it a waste of effort to go to any of them?

 

[gka472l]

For a forthcoming visit to London, can someone tell me how easy it is to see what's inside Stagecoach depots in London (for numbers). Is it a waste of effort to go to any of them?

Have been to look at Bromley, Catford and Plumstead on visits previously and there's usually some buses that are easily seen within the depot and yards. Can't see much at Romford...not been to any others though. Have a search on my Flickr and search for the locations (DMC1947 on Flickr). All three have plenty of passing routes too.

 

[Thirteen]

Noticed the other day that the 22 is now operating using the Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner. Seems like the popular choice for new electric buses at the moment

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Agree up to a point. First have a new depot at Wandsworth (Tootbus) which could operate the 93, Arriva have a depot in Croydon and Transport UK have depots in Battersea and Bedlington.

I can’t believe they chose the name “Transport UK” when “British Transport” is about 1,000,000 times better a name

 

[AWCook]

Noticed the other day that the 22 is now operating using the Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner. Seems like the popular choice for new electric buses at the moment

Isn't that though just because it's taking a share of the 1000 Wrightbus buses ordered by Go-Ahead?

 

[Mikey C]

Noticed the other day that the 22 is now operating using the Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner. Seems like the popular choice for new electric buses at the moment

The Electroliner and the BYDs seem to be dominating the market for electric DDs at the moment, with ADL and Volvo struggling a bit.

 

[PGAT]

Isn't that though just because it's taking a share of the 1000 Wrightbus buses ordered by Go-Ahead?

Yes that was part of the batch ordered as part of their framework deal, alongside buses for Routes 99, 131, 171, 172, 200, 230, 269, 401 and 486. They’ve since moved on to ordering from BYD and one large batch from ADL for the Woolwich routes

 

[Busoccultation]

Noticed the other day that the 22 is now operating using the Wrightbus StreetDeck Electroliner. Seems like the popular choice for new electric buses at the moment

Yes with the previous allocation on the 22 (a mix of Evosetis and B5LH Gemini 2 hybrids) moved to Northumberland Park garage for the upcoming takeover of the 123 from Arriva next Saturday

 

[Edvid]

Rollout of iBus2 won't start until next year, as per Programmes and Investment Committee papers for 5 March 2026.

Page 93 (actual 2025/26 output):

Tier 1 milestone to submit bus hardware for factory acceptance testing achieved September 2025. Detailed design of an interim solution that mitigates delays from the card reader interdependency issue took longer than expected with roll out now planned between 2027–2029

Page 101 (forecast 2026/27 output):

iBus 2: on-bus solution submitted for factory acceptance testing in Q1 followed by the back-office solution in Q2. Network acceptance test in Q3 followed by system factory acceptance testing in Q4

No new Oyster card readers this year either; completion of Project Hina software development and the start of testing will fill the next business year up.

 

[Thirteen]

Project Hina is to replace the quite old card readers IIRC?

Having iBus2 and card reader replacement at the same time does make sense, I wonder if the orange dot matrix countdown display will be replaced?

 

[Edvid]

Project Hina is to replace the quite old card readers IIRC?

That's right; buses first, rail estate later.

Having iBus2 and card reader replacement at the same time does make sense

Yes, the interface between iBus2 and the card readers is key. Difficulty with figuring out how to tie them together is the main reason for iBus2 being delayed in the first place.

I wonder if the orange dot matrix countdown display will be replaced?

That'll be Countdown 3, the rollout of which is also delayed (by about a year since the previous annual detailed Technology Programme update).

 

[DGP]

Yes, the interface between iBus2 and the card readers is key. Difficulty with figuring out how to tie them together is the main reason for iBus2 being delayed in the first place.

Does anyone know if the differences between iBus and iBus2 are documented anywhere?

 

[Mark L]

Does anyone know if the differences between iBus and iBus2 are documented anywhere?

Some detail can be found in the response to this FOIA query:

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Snow1964]

Metroline have taken over operating route H32 (Hounslow-Southall) using LT new bus for London (mainly some of the older ones), operated from Spring Grove Road, Lampton (north Hounslow), a former coach depot

Apparently work to install chargers at Arriva's Thornton Heath garage is now complete and many more ED class (BYD B11) which had been stored are entering service. Ultimately should see many of the aging DW and T class double decks (some of which are now 15-16 years old) withdrawn.

 

[317 forever]

Metroline have taken over operating route H32 (Hounslow-Southall) using LT new bus for London (mainly some of the older ones), operated from Spring Grove Road, Lampton (north Hounslow), a former coach depot

Apparently work to install chargers at Arriva's Thornton Heath garage is now complete and many more ED class (BYD B11) which had been stored are entering service. Ultimately should see many of the aging DW and T class double decks (some of which are now 15-16 years old) withdrawn.

It is actually ES type Electroliners that are coming to Thornton Heath, having being used temporarily at Tottenham, where Volvo BZLs are now gradually entering service.

The EDs are entering service at nearby Croydon, although Palmers Green are still owed some, and Dartford is due some too.

 

[Snow1964]

Couple of updates in Commissioners report for next weeks TfL Board meeting

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26146/Appendix%201%20Commissioners%20Report.pdf

(Page 13) 835 new routemasters (LT class) have now been refurbished, with 163 more to be done by end of 26/27 financial year (31 March 2027). That will take number upto 998 (out of original 1000 built)

(Page 14) As at end February, 2587 electric buses in London. There are around 8800 buses in fleet, so now over quarter are fully electric.

(Page 17) Oxford Street pedestrianisation is going ahead (which affects buses, and forces traffic onto alternative routes) with first section Ochard Street to Great Portland Street expected to be closed by this summer

 

[MotCO]

(Page 13) 835 new routemasters (LT class) have now been refurbished, with 163 more to be done by end of 26/27 financial year (31 March 2027). That will take number upto 998 (out of original 1000 built)

I think two (or at least one) has been written off, so presumably the 998 to be refurbished includes the short NBfL as well as the one converted to battery power.

The first buses entered service in 2012, so some of the earliest buses are now approaching 14 years old, and are therefore some of the oldest buses operating in London. Even with a refurb, how long can they continue running in London?

 

[Snow1964]

I think two (or at least one) has been written off, so presumably the 998 to be refurbished includes the short NBfL as well as the one converted to battery power.

The first buses entered service in 2012, so some of the earliest buses are now approaching 14 years old, and are therefore some of the oldest buses operating in London. Even with a refurb, how long can they continue running in London?

I think the short one was written off after an accident.

Recent Board documents have suggested now aiming to have all remaining non-zero emission buses gone by 2032 or 2034 (there was a bulge in new bus deliveries around 2017-18 so not letting these run beyond 2030 would be very expensive, with early replacements).

I would not be surprised if about 100-150 LTs end their days on school routes. Because they are paid for and will be fully depreciated, and thus cheap on paper, even if less than ideal design choice.

 

[DaveLondon]

I think the short one was written off after an accident.

Recent Board documents have suggested now aiming to have all remaining non-zero emission buses gone by 2032 or 2034 (there was a bulge in new bus deliveries around 2017-18 so not letting these run beyond 2030 would be very expensive, with early replacements).

I would not be surprised if about 100-150 LTs end their days on school routes. Because they are paid for and will be fully depreciated, and thus cheap on paper, even if less than ideal design choice.

The shortt NBFL (ST812) is happily tootling about on the 17 today.

 

[gka472l]

I think two (or at least one) has been written off, so presumably the 998 to be refurbished includes the short NBfL as well as the one converted to battery power.

The first buses entered service in 2012, so some of the earliest buses are now approaching 14 years old, and are therefore some of the oldest buses operating in London. Even with a refurb, how long can they continue running in London?

LT174 was the first to go, gutted by fire somewhere whilst in storage in Norfolk/Suffiolk area (think it was having work done on it), LT7 and LT45 are also withdrawn as far as I know, unless one of those is coming back....

EDIT - LT45 is the other.....so LT7 may come back?

Transport for London Reveals the Fate of Two Missing New Routemaster Buses

An FOI response reveals two missing hybrid New Routemaster buses, LT045 and LT174, with details on their withdrawal and insurance payouts from TfL…

clondoner92.blogspot.com

 

[DGP]

Some candidates for the local elections in Tower Hamlets are claiming that Sidiq Khan has plans to remove one of the local bus services, the D7. There is nothing, of course, in the TfL Consultations about this so I'm just wondering if any member of this group could kindly direct me to any documents published by TfL that would indicate any future potential changes to the bus network? I have challenged these candidates to produce any proof but ...

 

[Mark L]

Some candidates for the local elections in Tower Hamlets are claiming that Sidiq Khan has plans to remove one of the local bus services, the D7. There is nothing, of course, in the TfL Consultations about this so I'm just wondering if any member of this group could kindly direct me to any documents published by TfL that would indicate any future potential changes to the bus network? I have challenged these candidates to produce any proof but ...

Nothing has been published yet but withdrawal of the route was proposed in the 2022 Central London Bus Review. Plans are sometimes shared after a fashion with local stakeholders and representatives in advance of being made public.

 

[Snow1964]

Some candidates for the local elections in Tower Hamlets are claiming that Sidiq Khan has plans to remove one of the local bus services, the D7. There is nothing, of course, in the TfL Consultations about this so I'm just wondering if any member of this group could kindly direct me to any documents published by TfL that would indicate any future potential changes to the bus network? I have challenged these candidates to produce any proof but ...

The TfL Board papers also refer to upcoming consultations and cuts in central area in general terms, without any specifics. They seem to refer to just central and outer London, my guess is roughly zone 1&2, and zones 3-6 for outer.

There is a possibility the consultations go live couple of days after the May elections, but a few stakeholders have seen pre-release advance copies.

 

[Mikey C]

A number of the First BYD/E200EVs on the 226 have had their electronic destination blinds not working for a few days now, with the route number on paper stuck to the windscreen. Indeed they might have the blind box completely or partially missing.

Strange to have such a problem affecting more than 1 bus on a route. It's not a newly won route, and those buses have been operating for a few years now.

 

[Thirteen]

Noticed the 493 using the Wright GB Kites while out and about, looks very nice although there are still some Enviro200s still in use although not seen it in person.

 

[Railguy1]

Does anyone know what work is happening at Harrow Bus station?

 

[AWCook]

Does anyone know where Stagecoach 82214-82227 are? Bus Lists shows them as delivered in March but they're not on Bus Times.

 

[Edvid]

According to a FoI reply LT11 (the electric New Routemaster, which has been off-road since December 2023 more or less) will be back on the roads for more testing.

b) What the status is regarding the Electric New Routemaster (LT11) currently being trialed with Metroline and when it will re-enter into testing, and if TfL is considering implementing/is aware of Wrightbus' NewPower repower option to further extend their lifespan in London: https://wrightbus.com/en-gb/new-power

There is an existing trial of a converted electric NRM, which was developed by Equipmake. Ahead of the trial, Equipmake had developed a potential design that would allow the NRMs to be converted and approached TfL to see if it would be possible to trial it in practice at no cost to TfL. Since the trial initially began, there have been technological advancements and battery improvements, so Equipmake have evolved the converted model to incorporate these ahead of further testing. LT11 is expected to re-enter into service for testing over the next few months.

Currently, TfL is not exploring the Wrightbus repower for the NRM buses.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Is Superloop route SL12 (Gants Hill to Rainham) due to start tomorrow? I've seen from a few online sources that Saturday 4th April is the start date but nothing from TfL....