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London Bridge reconstruction works

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neilm

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tsr said:
Introducing small visual and physical distractions such as plants, columns and other obstacles can also help prevent solid blocks of overcrowding forming, and create a more pleasant environment for the dispersal of large numbers of people. (Look at the positioning of columns, desks and so on in a well-designed concert hall foyer, for example, or the way crowds disperse after the barriers in a decent Tube ticket hall).
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For info, there might well be disruption tonight as the BML is operating over the Down Reversible line only at Balcombe Tunnel Junction in reaction to a points failure. It is likely to be at least 1530 before this is fixed. Formal service recovery and bus replacements are being put in place.
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Are they using the new signalling as well, so 3 trains in each direction?
 
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tsr

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neilm said:
Are they using the new signalling as well, so 3 trains in each direction?
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Priority is being given to signalling moves in the Down direction on the Up Reversible at present, in order to free stranded Northbound services, and also to moving a number of Southbound delayed trains waiting in the Three Bridges area. Once this is done, I suspect the bi-di will be used as much as is feasible, but no info has been given formally as yet.
 
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neilm

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FOH said:
I take back what I said welcoming the plants, they're plastic!
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Lol same just noticed myself! You would of not been killing time for a train to east Croydon would you at this time of day ;)
 
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Barn

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Have we got any big milestones coming up in May to look out for? :)
 
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FOH

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neilm said:
Lol same just noticed myself! You would of not been killing time for a train to east Croydon would you at this time of day ;)
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Not quite but I was kicking my heels as I'd just missed a Victoria train.
 
QueensCurve

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JamesRowden said:
There's this diagram online from http://railwaydave.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/what-is-thameslink-programme.html
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The segregation of routes at the Bermondsey Divunder and Borough Market Viaduct obviously create a boon in capacity through London Bridge.

What I don't understand is how this helps to get 24tph through the Thameslink Core while there is still a flat double junction just south of Blackfriars.

Unless of course there is an intention that all trains from the Elifant and Carsell direction will terminate at Blackfriars?
 
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kjhskj75

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QueensCurve said:
The segregation of routes at the Bermondsey Divunder and Borough Market Viaduct obviously create a boon in capacity through London Bridge.

What I don't understand is how this helps to get 24tph through the Thameslink Core while there is still a flat double junction just south of Blackfriars.

Unless of course there is an intention that all trains from the Elifant and Carsell direction will terminate at Blackfriars?
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AFAICS there will be max 16tph Thameslink trains through London Bridge and just 8 through E&C. This is handleable, compare with say Baker St. on the Underground.

Compare this with Borough Market where there will be 16 Thameslink and about 24 to Charing Cross
 
QueensCurve

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kjhskj75 said:
AFAICS there will be max 16tph Thameslink trains through London Bridge and just 8 through E&C. This is handleable, compare with say Baker St. on the Underground.

Compare this with Borough Market where there will be 16 Thameslink and about 24 to Charing Cross
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Thank you.

It is certainly going to require disciplined operation of the Thameslink core.
 
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Bald Rick

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kjhskj75 said:
Compare this with Borough Market where there will be 16 Thameslink and about 24 to Charing Cross
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Or Met Jn on the Charing Cross side, which has dealt with 29tph since the 1970s with 15 going to the slows and 14 to the fasts.
 
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Yabbadabba said:
Yeah they fixed the fault last night, but the bi-di is still not in use yet.
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That explains things - I had wondered as there was no explicit confirmation of any plans to use it, but it initially seemed the contingency plan would have allowed its use if it had been possible. I need to re-read the particular contingency plan which was in use, though, so I'm not 100% certain on that.
 
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tsr said:
That explains things - I had wondered as there was no explicit confirmation of any plans to use it, but it initially seemed the contingency plan would have allowed its use if it had been possible. I need to re-read the particular contingency plan which was in use, though, so I'm not 100% certain on that.
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Even though it's been commissioned, it is collard OOU UFN.
 
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carriageline

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Yabbadabba said:
Still waiting for the training and briefing to be completed for both train crew and signallers, is the quick answer.
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There's a surprise! You would of thought this would of been done in advance, but nothing surprises me with our lot!
 
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swt_passenger

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telstarbox said:
The old Platforms 5 and 6 are disappearing fast with demolition apparently progressing from the country end over the bank holiday weekend.
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Also significant progress on the section of the new P8/9 island on the country side of the new concourse (eventually for up Charing Cross services) - they're using prefabricated concrete blocks for speed presumably.
 
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Barn

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I'm presuming we might start seeing some significant demolition works in the Bermondsey dive-under area soon, now that the Charing Cross services have been diverted away from their former viaduct?
 
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FOH

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There was a crane in this morning dismantling the sides of the new viaduct where it passes over the bus road. Any idea why as on the face of it it seems a waste to install the viaduct then take it apart again?
 
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Peter Sarf

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Forgive me if this has already been suggested. I had a scan through the thread.

It occurs to me that a nice idea would have been to dig some tunnels. One starting from from New Cross Gate and one from New Cross that quickly joined to one and re surfaced at/for City Thameslink. Thus by passing the existing London Bridge on the surface but with platforms connecting with the underground lines of course.

This would have been a lot less disruption during construction ?. This would have provided far better capacity and truly segregated the Thameslink route from the other jumble. Instead its going to be a differently signalled pair of (Thameslink) lines running straight through the whole lot with no cross connections between the two halves (Charing Cross vs Cannon Street) possible until as far East as the Bermondsey dive under.

I know this would have cost more but would the extra capacity have been worth it as we are going to be left with existing infrastructure being tinkered with to achieve a slight improvement. We are just pushing it closer to its limit. With hindsight people have questioned the value of the West Coast Mainline Upgrade and now a totally new route (HS2) is already being promoted.

Is this another case of not biting the bullet by really adding some extra infrastructure ?.

I have to say I admire the ingenuity of the current improvememnts. The current work is just the way I do things. But then I sometimes look back and think sod it I should have started from scratch.
 
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swt_passenger

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Peter Sarf said:
Forgive me if this has already been suggested. I had a scan through the thread.

It occurs to me that a nice idea would have been to dig some tunnels. One starting from from New Cross Gate and one from New Cross that quickly joined to one and re surfaced at/for City Thameslink. Thus by passing the existing London Bridge on the surface but with platforms connecting with the underground lines of course.
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A number of 'under grounding' options were considered during the Thameslink design phases, but IIRC were ruled impossible due to the depth required to avoid everything else that is already underground, especially below London Bridge, and the extreme gradients required after getting under the Thames.

Basically it would have needed a north south version of Crossrail, and additional replacement of existing stations and would have been unaffordable.
 
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