LNER Class 91 - What are the retirement plans?

[Rhydgaled]

The problem is that the Mark 4 has a very limited route clearance, unlike the Mark 3s, where large portions of the network are cleared (more than you might think).

Shouldn't be all that hard to get mark 4s cleared for other routes though, given that they were built to the same C3 loading gauge as the mark 3s. Not that there are all that many 25kV electrified routes which mark 4s haven't already been at least planned for (Grand Central and Grand Union plans for Blackpool, Stirling and Cardiff for example, plus TfW's actual operations) and from previous discussions on this topic it appears no diesel locos are able to work push-pull with mark 3 and mark 4 DVTs without modification (except perhaps the buffer-fitted class 43 power cars) so railtour mark 4s would be unlikely to venture beyond the wires much anyway.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

From previous discussions on this topic it appears no diesel locos are able to work push-pull with mark 3 and mark 4 DVTs without modification (except perhaps the buffer-fitted class 43 power cars) so railtour mark 4s would be unlikely to venture beyond the wires much anyway.

There are no diesel locos currently fitted with TDM (the buffer-fitted power cars have had it removed), so only those electric classes which have it can work with unmodified DVTs.

However, push-pull is not really a requirement for railtour stock - they can just stick a loco on both ends.

 

[Harlequinuk]

Get some Class 87 back instead of the 67s

 

[The Foghorn]

Get some Class 87 back instead of the 67s

Fewer horsepower and lower top speed isn't going to cut it. As I said previously, the 91's could have been referred for 125mph instead of 160 when the mid life HGR was done but it's too late now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2025 ==

Sorry, regeared in my previous post

 

[35B]

Picking up an old thread, but booking to travel later this week, I notice that LNER have removed coach E from being able to be booked on Mk4 sets

 

[hexagon789]

Picking up an old thread, but booking to travel later this week, I notice that LNER have removed coach E from being able to be booked on Mk4 sets

E in Standard and M in First are being removed from all 225 sets, part of the shortening of all 225 formations to 7 coaches + DVT for the forthcoming accelerated December 'Velocity' timetable.

 

[35B]

E in Standard and M in First are being removed from all 225 sets, part of the shortening of all 225 formations to 7 coaches + DVT for the forthcoming accelerated December 'Velocity' timetable.

I was expecting that, but surprised to find it being implemented in the reservation system so far before the new timetable. It significantly reduces available space, and I am not looking forward to Thursday's 1D30.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

I was expecting that, but surprised to find it being implemented in the reservation system so far before the new timetable. It significantly reduces available space, and I am not looking forward to Thursday's 1D30.

Presumably they want to get the sets physically shortened before the new timetable starts.

 

[hexagon789]

I was expecting that, but surprised to find it being implemented in the reservation system so far before the new timetable. It significantly reduces available space, and I am not looking forward to Thursday's 1D30.

They've already begun reducing sets, so I presume because of the chance of a 7 appearing now, marking all as such on the reservations system makes the most sense.

If a 9 does turn up, then presumably E is unreserved.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

Presumably they want to get the sets physically shortened before the new timetable starts.

They've already begun.

 

[35B]

They've already begun reducing sets, so I presume because of the chance of a 7 appearing now, marking all as such on the reservations system makes the most sense.

If a 9 does turn up, then presumably E is unreserved.

I know they're being very conservative with the 91s and Mk4s, but a month in advance feels very much like organising for the railway's convenience over that of the passengers. That's a significant capacity reduction on peak trains.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

a month in advance feels very much like organising for the railway's convenience over that of the passengers.

Which is not exactly unprecedented!

 

[swt_passenger]

I know they're being very conservative with the 91s and Mk4s, but a month in advance feels very much like organising for the railway's convenience over that of the passengers. That's a significant capacity reduction on peak trains.

The removal from reservation systems was reported as already happened in late August, it’s over in the short 225 testing thread (in the diagrams section). The discussion is around about here:

LNER 225 Shortening/Overnight Testing

This may have been mentioned but if so I can't find it after trawling the thread - which 1st coach is being removed? I'm guessing it's the one next to the DVT (coach M) since the other two have the accessible toilet (L) and the crew area (K) respectively? Good question, removing the PO (Coach...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[D365]

I know they're being very conservative with the 91s and Mk4s, but a month in advance feels very much like organising for the railway's convenience over that of the passengers. That's a significant capacity reduction on peak trains.

There are two vehicles to remove per IC225 set. Not every set will be ’on depot’ each night - nor would there be enough shunters to allow all sets to be reformed in the space of (say) one week.

 

[35B]

There are two vehicles to remove per IC225 set. Not every set will be ’on depot’ each night - nor would there be enough shunters to allow all sets to be reformed in the space of (say) one week.

I find that really hard to believe, and an indictment of the paring back of the system if so.

 

[31160]

Which is not exactly unprecedented!

Where's the like botton

 

[43096]

I find that really hard to believe, and an indictment of the paring back of the system if so.

Indeed. It’s not like it is removing a vehicle from (say) a Pendolino.

 

[35B]

Indeed. It’s not like it is removing a vehicle from (say) a Pendolino.

Quite. It's not an exact parallel, but I recall doing an HST railtour to the KWVR. While we went up the valley, the HST went down to Neville Hill, was split, had the (extra) kitchen car turned, was reformed, and then presented itself at Keighley for the return (and I think it may even have had to go out to Skipton to gain the Up line).

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Quite. It's not an exact parallel, but I recall doing an HST railtour to the KWVR. While we went up the valley, the HST went down to Neville Hill, was split, had the (extra) kitchen car turned, was reformed, and then presented itself at Keighley for the return (and I think it may even have had to go out to Skipton to gain the Up line).

MK4s - two ETS cables. Multi-working cable (is there a separate one for comms / CDL)? Air pipes. Tightlock coupler.

 

[43096]

Quite. It's not an exact parallel, but I recall doing an HST railtour to the KWVR. While we went up the valley, the HST went down to Neville Hill, was split, had the (extra) kitchen car turned, was reformed, and then presented itself at Keighley for the return (and I think it may even have had to go out to Skipton to gain the Up line).

And the same depot is dealing with the Mark 4 re-forms, too!

 

[tfw756rider]

They've already begun reducing sets

I should probably try and get a ride on a 9-coach before the end of this month then.

 

[Liam L]

I don't think I've seen this asked yet, what will happen to 2 spare coaches in each set which are being removed?

 

[BillStampy]

I don't think I've seen this asked yet, what will happen to 2 spare coaches in each set which are being removed?

Return to the leasing company I've read. Not sure what their fate will be to be honest. I don't think TfW are looking for vehicles currently and either way they'll need different and more locomotives if they want a larger fleet. So their fate is a bit in the dark from my view. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, please.

 

[Anonymous10]

Return to the leasing company I've read. Not sure what their fate will be to be honest. I don't think TfW are looking for vehicles currently and either way they'll need different and more locomotives if they want a larger fleet. So their fate is a bit in the dark from my view. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Unless they want a few as "spares" eg a spare rake to cover for faults or when a dvt / carriage is damaged. Also they are trying to activate hd08, a few recently withdrawn carriages would no doubt be simpler to bring into use?

 

[800001]

I don't think I've seen this asked yet, what will happen to 2 spare coaches in each set which are being removed?

5Q26 to Worksop today. 8 LNER MK4 coaches off for storage

 

[800Travel]

5Q26 to Worksop today. 8 LNER MK4 coaches off for storage

Anyone know what's hauling them?

 

[800001]

Anyone know what's hauling them?

I only know it's a ROG move.

 

[83G/84D]

Anyone know what's hauling them?

37608 and 37884.Coaches are 12214, 12406, 11406, 12485, 11408, 12431, 11412, 12515, 11415 and 82225.

 

[43096]

37608 and 37884.Coaches are 12214, 12406, 11406, 12485, 11408, 12431, 11412, 12515, 11415 and 82225.

Presumably 12214 and 82225 are just coupling translators and go back to NL afterwards?

 

[800Travel]

37608 and 37884.Coaches are 12214, 12406, 11406, 12485, 11408, 12431, 11412, 12515, 11415 and 82225.

Thank you - I wonder why they are sending off a DVT as well

 

[aliceh]

There looks to be a return move to Neville Hill this afternoon before the locos return to Doncaster - could it be that the DVT was needed for some reason and is coming back later on?