LNER announce CAF fleet (Class 897)

[FrontSideBus]

It doesn't matter how good the seats are as more than likely you'll still end up with the infamous CAF bogie rattle and rough ride!

 

[RailWonderer]

A Fainsa Sophia with a good cushion and no metal bar is a decent seat. Also they have 569 seats, so exactly the same as the 9 car 80x.

I'd agree, the 701s have a well padded cushion even though legroom is poor (and window alignment). Northern's Sophias on the 195s and 331s aren't the worst either, the Kiel seats from the 720s and many European Bombardier Talents and Doppelstocks are far worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd agree, the 701s have a well padded cushion even though legroom and is poor (and window alignment). Northern's Sophias on the 195s and 331s aren't the worst either

Those are Fainsa-Compin ironing board seats, not Sophias. The Sophia is the seat used on most 80x, notorious for the "metal bar" issue caused by the cushion being too soft, not too hard, for its thickness!

 

[stadler]

The photos seem to indicate that these 897s will have those annoying steps and ramps in the carriage like 804s and the flirts have. It seems very odd that these are needed on the 897s when these are not level boarding trains. One of the great things about British trains compared to Mainland European ones is the flat level floor throughout that high floor trains provide. So it is a shame that more trains like the 897s are now having these weird ramps and steps in the middle of the carriages.

 

[Kite159]

..

The photos seem to indicate that these 897s will have those annoying steps and ramps in the carriage like 804s and the flirts have. It seems very odd that these are needed on the 897s when these are not level boarding trains. One of the great things about British trains compared to Mainland European ones is the flat level floor throughout that high floor trains provide. So it is a shame that more trains like the 897s are now having these weird ramps and steps in the middle of the carriages.

I guess it's to cater for some carriages having diesel engines/batteries underneath and hence a higher floor. Similar to the Hitachi units, although those ramps are at the carriage ends

 

[Goldfish62]

It doesn't matter how good the seats are as more than likely you'll still end up with the infamous CAF bogie rattle and rough ride!

Very true!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==

Those are Fainsa-Compin ironing board seats, not Sophias. The Sophia is the seat used on most 80x, notorious for the "metal bar" issue caused by the cushion being too soft, not too hard, for its thickness!

If the cushion was any harder it would be harder than diamond! The foam is obviously cheap and can't withstand more than a handful of years of use before collapsing into a powder.

 

[dk1]

The photos seem to indicate that these 897s will have those annoying steps and ramps in the carriage like 804s and the flirts have. It seems very odd that these are needed on the 897s when these are not level boarding trains. One of the great things about British trains compared to Mainland European ones is the flat level floor throughout that high floor trains provide. So it is a shame that more trains like the 897s are now having these weird ramps and steps in the middle of the carriages.

What is a class 804 please?

 

[FrontSideBus]

To be honest, even if they use thicker, softer cushioning, that still wouldn't make up for the bolt upright back angle.
I did a decent trip on a 150 the other day and honestly, the seats were more comfortable!
The best modern ones, IMO, are the ones Avanti and Lumo use.

 

[stadler]

What is a class 804 please?

Sorry i meant to say the 810s. When they were ordered they were originally called 804s. I keep forgetting that they have changed the TOPS classification.

 

[RailWonderer]

Those are Fainsa-Compin ironing board seats, not Sophias. The Sophia is the seat used on most 80x, notorious for the "metal bar" issue caused by the cushion being too soft, not too hard, for its thickness!

Ah yes. I'm not sure if the LNER Sophias are having the same issue as the GWR ones, last year I had a few Azumas and they seemed fine, hard but no feeling of the bar.

The photos seem to indicate that these 897s will have those annoying steps and ramps in the carriage like 804s and the flirts have. It seems very odd that these are needed on the 897s when these are not level boarding trains. One of the great things about British trains compared to Mainland European ones is the flat level floor throughout that high floor trains provide. So it is a shame that more trains like the 897s are now having these weird ramps and steps in the middle of the carriages.

European trains, especially regional trains need to be very low floor by the doors because some platforms are literally pavement height to road, unless they copy the DesiroRus and have bolted on stepladders beneath each set of doors.

 

[Ian Hardy]

I was trying to look at the LNER Class 897 page
https://www.lner.co.uk/news/the-nex...-exciting-new-details-of-upcoming-east-coast/
and I got this error:

Before we continue...
Press & Hold to confirm you are a human (and not a bot)

Please try again

has appeared as it failed to register that I am a human.

If the new trains are as user friendly as the website, there is no hope.

 

[dk1]

Sorry i meant to say the 810s. When they were ordered they were originally called 804s. I keep forgetting that they changed the TOPS classification.

Ah okay. Can’t get away from ramps/steps on the 745/755 and have level boarding unfortunately. You get used to it.

 

[stadler]

..

I guess it's to cater for some carriages having diesel engines/batteries underneath and hence a higher floor. Similar to the Hitachi units, although those ramps are at the carriage ends

That probably explains it but i am surprised that they can not fit it all under a normal floor height. You would think a normal UK floor height would provide enough space for the engines and batteries. Especially as the carriages are rather long giving even more space underneath.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ah okay. Can’t get away from ramps/steps on the 745/755 and have level boarding unfortunately. You get used to it.

It's a small sacrifice to make in order to secure a huge win for accessibility. Well worth it in my view.

Though it's weird that they've put the rams in the main part of the train with the 897s when they won't have level boarding. Hitachi, in fairness, dealt with it very well by putting it in the corridor between trains. Means you almost don't notice it and unless you move between vehicles you won't notice it at all! So having it in the saloon proper is a bit of a pain when it doesn't gain you anything. Hardly the end of the world though.

 

[dk1]

It's a small sacrifice to make in order to secure a huge win for accessibility. Well worth it in my view.

Though it's weird that they've put the rams in the main part of the train with the 897s when they won't have level boarding. Hitachi, in fairness, dealt with it very well by putting it in the corridor between trains. Means you almost don't notice it and unless you move between vehicles you won't notice it at all! So having it in the saloon proper is a bit of a pain when it doesn't gain you anything. Hardly the end of the world though.

Hoping to take a run on an 810 in a few weeks so will have a wander through.

 

[Sorcerer]

I actually quite like the interior despite the uncomfortable looking seats. The mixture of red and wood panels makes it look smart and stylish, and the lighting actually seems warmer compared to the clinical feel of the IETs (though that will have to be something you judge in person). My only complaint is the overwhelming carpet pattern and the tables looking a little cheap tacky, but they don't detract too much from the overall ambience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah yes. I'm not sure if the LNER Sophias are having the same issue as the GWR ones, last year I had a few Azumas and they seemed fine, hard but no feeling of the bar.

They certainly are. They're just newer by a year or two so it's not as pronounced yet.

It's a design flaw in that base cushion. Even the Thameslink first class seats which are not quite the same frame but have a similar base cushion now have the issue.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==

I actually quite like the interior despite the uncomfortable looking seats. The mixture of red and wood panels makes it look smart and stylish, and the lighting actually seems warmer compared to the clinical feel of the IETs (though that will have to be something you judge in person). My only complaint is the overwhelming carpet pattern and the tables looking a little cheap tacky, but they don't detract too much from the overall ambience.

The lighting looks the same as the 397, which is very stark white (but not blue), but because it's indirect rather than direct, and because the spots create an element of natural shadow, I find it quite pleasant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==

It's a small sacrifice to make in order to secure a huge win for accessibility. Well worth it in my view.

Though it's weird that they've put the rams in the main part of the train with the 897s when they won't have level boarding. Hitachi, in fairness, dealt with it very well by putting it in the corridor between trains. Means you almost don't notice it and unless you move between vehicles you won't notice it at all! So having it in the saloon proper is a bit of a pain when it doesn't gain you anything. Hardly the end of the world though.

I suspect it will cause tripping like it does on the (awful) 777s. It's just not obvious enough.

I would say Hitachi did better here, people are usually looking at their feet when crossing between coaches so are less likely to trip on it on those units.

 

[AndrewP]

These look a step backward from the Azumas to me

 

[Goldfish62]

They certainly are. They're just newer by a year or two so it's not as pronounced yet.

Yes, I recently had an extremely uncomfortable journey from KX to Newcastle sat on one of those torture contraptions. Made me wish I'd splashed out on 1st Class and a modestly more comfortable seat.

 

[Snow1964]

Serenza is LNER name per the article

(a hybrid of serene and -enza) apparently

The Next Generation: LNER Reveals Exciting New Details of Upcoming East Coast Main Line Trains | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

To help them stand apart from the existing Azuma fleet, the new Class 897 trains will be named ‘Serenza’*. The name is a hybrid of ‘serene’ and the Spanish-style suffix ‘-enza’, evoking a feeling of peacefulness and calm, combined with energy, movement, and modernity.

Seeing as the trains were ordered early November 2023 (nearly 26 months ago), the references in the article to 'until the project reaches design freeze' makes me wonder how many months to go. Would have thought would have fixed the design over a year ago so can actually build it.

 

[YorksLad12]

These look a step backward from the Azumas to me

Step sideways for me. They look exactly the same (apart from the CAF-inspired ability to muck up the window alignment - see also the Mark 5A coaching stock and the class 195s).

I did see some additional photos on LinkedIn (sorry), which include the water refill points. Doesn't say where it is/they are though. Hopefully not in the vestibule ends...

 

[Bletchleyite]

These look a step backward from the Azumas to me

Really? Aside from the ramp inside the saloon, I think they look better in every possible way. A bit like the 810 (not that I agree with all the design decisions on that of course) it looks like an interior someone has actually thought about rather than just ordering the cheapest option of everything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==

Step sideways for me. They look exactly the same (apart from the CAF-inspired ability to muck up the window alignment - see also the Mark 5A coaching stock and the class 195s).

The 397 is near 100% aligned in Standard (but not in First) - it uses a Standard class based window spacing. It will be interesting to see if LNER manage the same in the real unit. The 196 is also fairly well aligned (though isn't great in other ways e.g. cramped and small windows). It's just down to what is specified.

Talking of the lighting, I think it's similar to the 196 as well which is a good aspect of that unit. Indirect is always much nicer than direct.

 

[gabrielhj07]

To be honest, 'better than an Azuma' is not a high bar. It's especially bad when the seats are being praised for not collapsing (yet).

 

[rmHawk765]

I honestly wonder, if these are purely intended to replace the 225s, what was the reasoning behind not just ordering more IETs (especially considering those can be specced for tri-mode too)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I honestly wonder, if these are purely intended to replace the 225s, what was the reasoning behind not just ordering more IETs (especially considering those can be specced for tri-mode too)?

As has been stated above, it was because Hitachi, presumably thinking they were a shoe-in for the business (or because they didn't want it), quoted a totally unreasonable price.

 

[rmHawk765]

As has been stated above, it was because Hitachi, presumably thinking they were a shoe-in for the business (or because they didn't want it), quoted a totally unreasonable price.

Ah, I see. CAF is certainly an interesting choice... I guess I can sort of get behind it because the 397s exist.

 

[AlterEgo]

Dreadful name. None of those involved can have ever experienced the "serenity" of CAF's rough riding poverty carts.

 

[Pete_uk]

If nothing else, I'm glad these trains are of 'propper' intercity length

 

[hwl]

Those are Fainsa-Compin ironing board seats, not Sophias. The Sophia is the seat used on most 80x, notorious for the "metal bar" issue caused by the cushion being too soft, not too hard, for its thickness!

The ironing board term originated with the Fainsa* Sophia first used in GB on the 377/6 & /7. At some point I'll dig out the April fools spoof photo of one of my shirts being ironed on one in March 2012 that somewhat popularised the term...

*Pre Fainsa - Compin merger several years later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ironing board term originated with the Fainsa* Sophia first used in GB on the 377/6 & /7.

That seat is not the Sophia. It's the Fainsa-Compin "ironing board" (I can't remember its actual name, but it's something nondescript). It's a completely different seat - it is quite hard and basic, but it doesn't have the metal bar problem. I personally don't dislike it like some do.

It originated from Compin, not Fainsa.

The Sophia is the squarer seat used on these and on other 80x bar the Avanti and Lumo units.