LM 350/3 discussion (was Construction Progress)

[Old Hill Bank]

If I recall correctly the 350/3s are all for West Coast Euston based services BUT 2 will allow older 350s to cascade to West Midlands services thus cascading two 323s onto the cross city line. I cannot remember but either the 350/1s Or the 350/2s are 100mph (as opposed to 110mph) and it is those that will be cascaded away from the services at the South end of the WCML. The 110mph capable 350s are for use on the WCML fast lines where they cause less obstrucion to the faster 390s (Pendolinos).

I bet its somewhere in this thread already but I could not find it. Correct me if I am wrong here (dont want dud info floating about).

As much as some on here have bad mouthed the /2s for 3+2 seating, that is what we need on the West Midlands diagrams or there is a reduction in seating compared with the 323s.

 

[sd0733]

If I recall correctly the 350/3s are all for West Coast Euston based services BUT 2 will allow older 350s to cascade to West Midlands services thus cascading two 323s onto the cross city line. I cannot remember but either the 350/1s Or the 350/2s are 100mph (as opposed to 110mph) and it is those that will be cascaded away from the services at the South end of the WCML. The 110mph capable 350s are for use on the WCML fast lines where they cause less obstrucion to the faster 390s (Pendolinos).

I bet its somewhere in this thread already but I could not find it. Correct me if I am wrong here (dont want dud info floating about).

The bulletin we got regarding the 350/3s made no mention of any 350 cascade and specifically said that 2 of the new units were for west mids diagrams and 7 for west coast work, that's not saying a cascade won't happen but the staff bulletins don't mention one.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The bulletin we got regarding the 350/3s made no mention of any 350 cascade and specifically said that 2 of the new units were for west mids diagrams and 7 for west coast work, that's not saying a cascade won't happen but the staff bulletins don't mention one.

If the 350/1s are the other 110mph subfleet then my question is :- Do any 350/1s currently work purely West Midlands diagrams. If the answer is no (as in only 350/2s are used) then I guess a cascde of two 350/2s from WCML services is likely - especially as these seem to have the 3+2 seating. Just my guess mind you.
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As much as some on here have bad mouthed the /2s for 3+2 seating, that is what we need on the West Midlands diagrams or there is a reduction in seating compared with the 323s.

If I remember correctly the 323s are three car units so the use of a four car 350 with 2+2 seating might balance the seating shortfall per coach. But I feel the use of 350/2s with their 3+2 seating is more likely.

 

[Qwerty133]

If the /3s have power sockets in STD as rumoured, they'd be best used on Euston- Crewe 110MPH services! with /1s moved to BHM-LIV and /2s used on the west mids services

 

[swt_passenger]

Why would LM changing their daily diagrams for 350/1s, 350/2s, and 323s slightly to reflect the arrival of 350/3s even be considered as a 'cascade'?

The term is generally used when a sub fleet moves somewhere else to do something completely different surely?

 

[northwichcat]

Why would LM changing their daily diagrams for 350/1s, 350/2s, and 323s slightly to reflect the arrival of 350/3s even be considered as a 'cascade'?

The term cascade does get brought up a lot now when it's an internal cascade following the acquisition of new trains. I think it's so that passengers using the routes which won't get the new trains don't think that they're not getting anything.

TPE advertised that they were moving 2 x 170s off North TPE to strengthen South TPE services and using 185s previously used on Scottish services (replaced by new 350/4s) on North TPE.

 

[Silverlinky]

350375 turned up this week, but 376 has been delayed and will arrive with the final unit 377 next week.

375 should be out on test runs to Stafford next Monday and Tuesday.

 

[oversteer]

I just noticed that 350368 (and 369?) have been in Camden depot all week. Thought they looked a bit shiny

 

[harz99]

The 350/3s don't break down as much because they are currently sat in sidings. They are not required in service until December timetable change. Three months to bed them down in.

Which IMHO would probably be best done by utilising them on hire to TPE, and swapping regularly. Otherwise, come December LM may be in for a painful start with the 350/3s.

 

[Class 170101]

Been saying that for a while already.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

350374 seen alone on the Up Through Siding at the LNWR shed earlier this evening, surrounded by locos. Couldn't see anything else knocking about.

 

[sd0733]

350372/373/375 are all inside the shed. They are normally visible but there are some blue wagons and freightliner locos there at the moment so they aren't currently that easy to see.

 

[Silverlinky]

Slowly getting them prepared for use.......368/9 are now back at Kings Heath for inspection/testing swapping places with 376/7 which have moved down to Camden carriage sidings.

 

[sd0733]

Been told in a briefing today that as long as enough crews are gsm-r and traction trained for the 350/3s then they will enter service for strengthening purposes on Monday October 6th. A meeting took place last week with DfT who agreed to the new date.

 

[Techniquest]

Been told in a briefing today that as long as enough crews are gsm-r and traction trained for the 350/3s then they will enter service for strengthening purposes on Monday October 6th. A meeting took place last week with DfT who agreed to the new date.

But what does that mean in English? Just strengthening 350s in the Euston to MKC area? Seems to be about the only place that gets train lengths right...

So many LM services that could do with strengthening, and I don't see them starting with LM until December still!

 

[bnsf734]

Having stood from Nuneaton to Euston several times on Saturday mornings on the Trent Valley flyers I can think of a service which definitely needs strengthening, and we have the London Xmas shopping season coming up shortly. Hopefully these trains will get an extra unit soon.

 

[sd0733]

Yes they would only be used to provide extra coaches on peak services in and out of Euston before December. Training at my depot has been increased from nothing to everybody having a training day put in over the next 2 weeks so it looks promising for October but as always on the railway its subject to change until one actually begins work.
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Having stood from Nuneaton to Euston several times on Saturday mornings on the Trent Valley flyers I can think of a service which definitely needs strengthening, and we have the London Xmas shopping season coming up shortly. Hopefully these trains will get an extra unit soon.

Those almost certainly won't be strengthened whilst they go via Stoke as those stations cannot take an 8-car set. The only one which is likely to be an 8-car is the (monday-friday) 6:52 Crewe-Euston as that doesn't call at Alsager, Kidsgrove or Stone, Apart from that and the 16:46 Euston-crewe its 4-car operation all the time on that route with the way things are.

 

[nuneatonmark]

It's not just Saturday mornings from Nuneaton, there are plenty more of the Crewe services that are now packed, like the 1546 off Euston for a start. The TV services have been a victim of their own success now limited by short platforms at some stations like Stone. Would there be any way of extending any of the Birmingham trains where they split at Northampton up the TV to Stafford, for example to make 2 tph along there?

 

[sd0733]

I don't think that would really work as the journey time going via Northampton adds approx 20 mins by the time you've added the Birmingham portion and the fact you would have calls at other stations, the fast train via Weedon would probably overtake the extra train before it got to Euston meaning the vast majority would be on the original anyway. Not sure if there is another 110mph path either without sacrifising something else.

Agree that the 15:46 needs sorting, regular working of mine that one and its always full, far worse on a Friday though where its often full and standing at least as far as Lichfield.

There was talk at one time of the xx:46 eustons going to Liverpool and swapping paths with the xx:01 birmingham-liverpool at Stafford, the train from birmingham would then go via Stoke and terminte at crewe. That would allow 8 car but would sacrifise the Stoke-Euston market. That idea seems to have gone quiet anyway.

 

[387star]

Internally these trains look really great hopefully they will prevent 350/2s being used on unsuitable services though that's is wishful thinking

 

[Techniquest]

If the Crewe services are that bad, then banging on/ripping off an extra 350 at Stafford couldn't hurt? Even if just on the busier ones in morning/evening peak.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm just wondering if we should have a separate thread for the latest info about introduction of London Midland's additional 350s in their own area, (and the ensuing service changes in December), OR should I just ask a moderator to change the title of this thread to keep it relevant to what it is now being used for?

Alternatively, was there another existing thread specifically about the 350/3s?

 

[Class 170101]

If the Crewe services are that bad, then banging on/ripping off an extra 350 at Stafford couldn't hurt? Even if just on the busier ones in morning/evening peak.

I must admit I did wonder about this option.

The unit left behind at Stafford and would be sitting on a through platform for about 15 minutes though.

Potentially a performance risk but then FCC do it at Cambridge with about 10 minutes between arrivals and departures.

 

[sd0733]

Theoretically yes a split at Stafford would work, the 16:46 ex-Euston alreasy does it. There are a couple of issues at the moment with doing it on a regular basis though:
Firstly the signalling/layout at Stafford- as it is only platform 6 is bi-directionally signalled, meaning that the trains to London would have to cross the entire layout at both ends of the station to attach its add-on, or it could shunt to cross platforms and again cross the layout which is going to cause issues with punctuality. Once all the platforms are bi-di they could potentially use a centre platform for attaching/detaching far more easily.
Also there is the issue of having a driver down at Stafford, half the time there wouldn't be the resources to do it as it stands.

And in answer to SWT_passengers point, yes I agree that the last 10-15 posts could probably do with being moved into a '350/3 introduction' thread as they are now absolutely nothing to do with Glasgow services.

 

[DarloRich]

Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones

Was the order for the TPE 350's novated on the LM order? I think these run was end of the contractual add ons so any new trains have to be purchased under a new tender. I could be wrong,

 

[najaB]

Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones.

Does nature of the routes possibly contribute? The northern end of the WCML seems like it would be harder work than the southern.

 

[Class 170101]

The 350/3s don't break down as much because they are currently sat in sidings. They are not required in service until December timetable change. Three months to bed them down in.

 

[Class377/5]

Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones

Was the order for the TPE 350's novated on the LM order? I think these run was end of the contractual add ons so any new trains have to be purchased under a new tender. I could be wrong,

Don't forget two were damaged by a engineering train along with OHLE issues damaging several (I've not heard what was to blame) caused some of the problem along with rumors of lack of care on the northern side hasn't helped.

The TOE were novated. The reason was because the 350 was an out of date design as the 380 fleet uses the new bodyshell. That's why no more 350s sill ever be built.

 

[IanXC]

Alternatively, was there another existing thread specifically about the 350/3s?

I've split the posts put of the 350/3 loan thread. I also feel that there is a 350/3 thread already, if anyone knows where it is could they let me have the URL!found it!

Thanks

 

[Peter Sarf]

At the top of Camden Bank (North of Euston) in the sidings on the West/South side of the line is where the 350/3s seem to left. These are visible from all services (unless another train gets int the way). So the DC service (all stops to Watford Jct) is the quickest out and back.

On Wednesday 24/09/2014 I observed what APPEARED to be 350376 and 350377 on/about the furthest siding from the running lines. I did three flypasts but it was a low sun behind them and on the last trip it was getting dark.

On Monday 29/09/2014 they (350376 and 350377) were still there. But again not 100% sure.

I need new eyes.
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Slowly getting them prepared for use.......368/9 are now back at Kings Heath for inspection/testing swapping places with 376/7 which have moved down to Camden carriage sidings.

So looks like they (376/377) are still at Camden.

Wondering if there are going to be any more swaps of locations before the 350/3s are allowed out ?.