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LM 350's on Glasgow Services

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Silverlinky

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375 is also at Crewe LNWR.....observed this morning.

Its true that the /3 fleet has been fully comissioned, thats been the case for a couple of weeks now, but i've heard nothing about any use in the offing by LM.

Current location of the fleet....
368/369 Camden Carriage Sidings
370 Bletchley Carriage Sidings
371 Northampton River Sidings
372/3/4/5 Crewe LNWR
376/7 Northampton Kings Heath Depot
 
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harz99

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sd0733 said:
350372/373/374 have arrived back at LNWR Crewe and are parked as a 12-car set.

We've had a message at work that all the /3 fleet are now comissioned are are fully cleared for passenger use now with LM. A usually reliable source has also said that one should be entering service very shortly but will be limited to operations around Northampton-Euston.
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Oh well, all good things have to come to an end I guess! Fingers crossed now.
 
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yorkie

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No shortage of staff though. 10 staff on one of the morning trains from Manchester Airport heading towards Glasgow! (driver, guard, trolley hosts, cleaners, helpers and someone with a clipboard who may have been a manager of some sort). Maybe they were expecting an 8-car set and were meant to be spread around the train, but it still seemed very excessive!
 
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harz99

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kwvr45 said:
I understand that there will be 2 x 350/3s staying on hire to TPE for the next couple of months due to reliability problems with the 350/4s and an ongoing daily shortage of 185s. Without the 350/3s services would be cancelled, and even with them some services are running around short formed.
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So that prediction didn't come about then, or are the units being swapped for others?
 
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sd0733

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Silverlinky said:
375 is also at Crewe LNWR.....observed this morning.

Its true that the /3 fleet has been fully comissioned, thats been the case for a couple of weeks now, but i've heard nothing about any use in the offing by LM.
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Yes, it seems that my source got the wrong end of the stick from something they were told, it related to moving units between depots and not entering service, apologies for putting out wrong information.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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As mentioned in another thread, I saw an LM unit coupled upto a FTPE unit at Carlisle, which I understand formed a Glasgow to Manchester Airport service last Sunday afternoon.
 
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Solent&Wessex

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harz99 said:
So that prediction didn't come about then, or are the units being swapped for others?
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No, it seems on this occasion my source was incorrect, or they changed their mind.

As an aside the outlook for Friday is that some Scottish services will be running 4 cars vice 8 due to a shortage of serviceable 350s. Some North route services will be running 3 cars vice 6 due to a shortage of serviceable Class 185s. Good news for another busy Friday!
 
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kwvr45 said:
No, it seems on this occasion my source was incorrect, or they changed their mind.

As an aside the outlook for Friday is that some Scottish services will be running 4 cars vice 8 due to a shortage of serviceable 350s. Some North route services will be running 3 cars vice 6 due to a shortage of serviceable Class 185s. Good news for another busy Friday!
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Even more disgraceful. Units sitting idle at LNWR Crewe or Camden Carriage Sidings (350/3s) when they could be used to improve unit availability for the short term until TPE's fleet (350/4s) is upto scratch.
 
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harz99

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kwvr45 said:
As an aside the outlook for Friday is that some Scottish services will be running 4 cars vice 8 due to a shortage of serviceable 350s. Some North route services will be running 3 cars vice 6 due to a shortage of serviceable Class 185s. Good news for another busy Friday!
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Not a weekday I know, but the 1012 EDB-MIA was 2x 350/4 today, and the 1200 MIA-EDB was 2x 185. Both pretty busy, one 350 on either train would not have coped when I was on them which was LOC-PNR and vv.

Not sure if the 350/4 involved in a fatality last Friday near Lancaster is back out yet though.
 
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ainsworth74

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They could have but why would they? The franchise was due up only a couple of years down the line from when the units were being ordered so they'd never have recouped the investment. Further, even if they knew they'd keep the franchise, it would quite possibly be a poor investment as it is widely expected (but not confirmed) that they'll be replaced with the same units that end up on TPE North to avoid a small sub-fleet in the long term.
 
tom1649

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ainsworth74 said:
They could have but why would they? The franchise was due up only a couple of years down the line from when the units were being ordered so they'd never have recouped the investment.
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Fair point. This is one of the flaws of the franchising system.
 
scotsman

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edwin_m

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ainsworth74 said:
They could have but why would they? The franchise was due up only a couple of years down the line from when the units were being ordered so they'd never have recouped the investment. Further, even if they knew they'd keep the franchise, it would quite possibly be a poor investment as it is widely expected (but not confirmed) that they'll be replaced with the same units that end up on TPE North to avoid a small sub-fleet in the long term.
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It may also be that the 350/3s and 350/4s represent the limit of the options in the contract with Siemens, and that any more would have required at least a renegotiation (with Siemens eager to close down production of an obsolete design) and probably a whole new procurement.
 
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northwichcat

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ainsworth74 said:
They could have but why would they? The franchise was due up only a couple of years down the line from when the units were being ordered so they'd never have recouped the investment. Further, even if they knew they'd keep the franchise, it would quite possibly be a poor investment as it is widely expected (but not confirmed) that they'll be replaced with the same units that end up on TPE North to avoid a small sub-fleet in the long term.
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40 carriages was decided on by the previous DfT as part of the HLOS for CP4. Originally it was going to be 40 DMU carriages but following the electrification announcement that changed. I think the only way TPE would have been able to increase the order size would have been if Chiltern had approached Porterbrook for the 170/3s sooner, then TPE could maybe have claimed an extra 2 x 350s would partially act as 170/3 replacement.

Northern had been due to get a new EMU fleet to replace the 323s and get extra capacity with the 323s going to LM. So LM would have gained 51 carriages. LM have now got the 350/3s instead so that's 40 carriages. If they get the 350/4s and release the remaining 321s then they'll have 52 additional carriages.

So the number of carriages add up but as usual DfT have ignored the length of carriages with 323s carriages being longer than 350/321 carriages and had TPE got new DMUs they would have likely had 23m carriages.

Even the people with inside knowledge of the rail industry aren't sure what will happen with TPE. There's been suggestions TPE could take on cascaded 365s and 387s as well as ordering a new fleet. The released 365s or 387s won't be able to cover all TPE electric services by themselves.
 
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Solent&Wessex

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Short forms today - there is a 185 covering a 350 diagram due to a shortage of available 350s.
 
Class377/5

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jcollins said:
Even the people with inside knowledge of the rail industry aren't sure what will happen with TPE. There's been suggestions TPE could take on cascaded 365s and 387s as well as ordering a new fleet. The released 365s or 387s won't be able to cover all TPE electric services by themselves.
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It keeps changing. Rumors do vary with both the 365 and 387s going being one I've heard.
 
DarloRich

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Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones

Was the order for the TPE 350's novated on the LM order? I think these run was end of the contractual add ons so any new trains have to be purchased under a new tender. I could be wrong,
 
Manchester77

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DarloRich said:
Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones

Was the order for the TPE 350's novated on the LM order? I think these run was end of the contractual add ons so any new trains have to be purchased under a new tender. I could be wrong,
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Think part of is that there is that TPE have nowhere near enough slack in their fleet as LM do. If one train needs to be out for a long term then you on,y have 9 units to play with and if one of those fails then you're two down. I think this is quite a common occurrence.

I think the order was to be the last of traditional desiros and was intended to be for LM, but TPE managed to get 10 units as part of the CP4 HLOS where 40 DMUs were meant for TPE (EMUs thanks to wiring)
 
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The 350/3s don't break down as much because they are currently sat in sidings. They are not required in service until December timetable change. Three months to bed them down in.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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DarloRich said:
Strange that LM350's don’t seem to fail as often as the TPE ones

Was the order for the TPE 350's novated on the LM order? I think these run was end of the contractual add ons so any new trains have to be purchased under a new tender. I could be wrong,
Click to expand...

Don't forget two were damaged by a engineering train along with OHLE issues damaging several (I've not heard what was to blame) caused some of the problem along with rumors of lack of care on the northern side hasn't helped.

The TOE were novated. The reason was because the 350 was an out of date design as the 380 fleet uses the new bodyshell. That's why no more 350s sill ever be built.
 
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