List of new units

[stockport1]

Is there a list of what new trains have been ordered and when they will be in use anywhere?

Maybe this could be accompanied by when current fleets will be withdrawn?

There are lots of threads on separate classes but I cannot see an *overview* anywhere of what new trains, how many and when delivered and who to.

many thanks

 

[AM9]

Is there a list of what new trains have been ordered and when they will be in use anywhere?

Maybe this could be accompanied by when current fleets will be withdrawn?

There are lots of threads on separate classes but I cannot see an *overview* anywhere of what new trains, how many and when delivered and who to.

many thanks

This thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=89934

has many postings giving (opinions of) the overall position but hasn't been added to since December last year. As you can see from it and other posts, cascading is just as important as just 'buying new'.

 

[petersi]

I maintain this spread sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iw2hC40sjuVAZA8c4pJKJEMW-3EPuDmAsSi8-3tga_0/edit?usp=sharing

of status of rolling stock orders in the public domain.

 

[stockport1]

I maintain this spread sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iw2hC40sjuVAZA8c4pJKJEMW-3EPuDmAsSi8-3tga_0/edit?usp=sharing

of status of rolling stock orders in the public domain.

thankyou very much. excellent spreadsheet.

 

[samuelmorris]

Useful document, thanks for posting (and keeping updated!) - the expansion of the Overground order to 45 units I was unaware of until I spotted this

 

[WatcherZero]

3rd edition of ATOC rolling stock strategy came out this week. Not a lot of difference except they seem to have been leaned on and a lot of criticism of Government in the 2nd edition over central procurement and short term franchises has been withdrawn and apologised for.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/wp...m-passenger-rolling-stock-strategy-3rd-ed.pdf

One change is they are now publically disclosing which classes they include in each category.

Type A Shorter Distance Self Powered, 121, 139, 142, 143, 144, 150, 153, 155, 156, 165
Type B Middle Distance Self Powered, 158, 159, 166, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 182
Type C Longer Distance Self Powered, 180, 220, 221, 222, HST
Type D Shorter Distance Electric, 313, 314, 315, 345, 376, 378, 455, 456, 465, 466, 507, 508, 707
Type E Middle Distance Electric, 317, 318, 320, 321, 322, 323, 332, 333, 334, 350, 357, 360, 365, 375, 377, 379, 380, 387, 442, 444, 450, 458, 700, AT200
Type F Longer Distance Electric, 390, IC225, 800, 801
Type G Very High Speed, 395


This bit is interesting 'we forecast a requirement for 350-500 additional non electric short distance vehicles (by 2022) based on the assumption of withdrawal of all or most of the 290 Class 14X Pacers.'

If the Northern tender is to order at least 200 that means they will still require the same again. They also suggest that they can be future proofed by being built as either Bi-Modes or LHCS or by having brake energy recovery though the suggest the latter technology would not be available in the timescale.

And they forecast a requirement of between 1200 and 1500 type B and C vehicles by 2044, as 1350 have been built since privatisation they forecast no more will need to be built before 2044.

 

[Viscount702]

3rd edition of ATOC rolling stock strategy came out this week. Not a lot of difference except they seem to have been leaned on and a lot of criticism of Government in the 2nd edition over central procurement and short term franchises has been withdrawn and apologised for.

http://www.raildeliverygroup.com/wp...m-passenger-rolling-stock-strategy-3rd-ed.pdf

One change is they are now publically disclosing which classes they include in each category.

Type A Shorter Distance Self Powered, 121, 139, 142, 143, 144, 150, 153, 155, 156, 165
Type B Middle Distance Self Powered, 158, 159, 166, 168, 170, 171, 172, 175, 182
Type C Longer Distance Self Powered, 180, 220, 221, 222, HST
Type D Shorter Distance Electric, 313, 314, 315, 345, 376, 378, 455, 456, 465, 466, 507, 508, 707
Type E Middle Distance Electric, 317, 318, 320, 321, 322, 323, 332, 333, 334, 350, 357, 360, 365, 375, 377, 379, 380, 387, 442, 444, 450, 458, 700, AT200
Type F Longer Distance Electric, 390, IC225, 800, 801
Type G Very High Speed, 395

As far as I can see 319s aren't mentioned!!

 

[WatcherZero]

They are indeed not mentioned. Presumably haven't decided whether they would be short or middle distance or both.

 

[Emblematic]

If the Northern tender is to order at least 200 that means they will still require the same again.

That a very big 'If' - specifying more than the stipulated minimum of 120 units risks any tendered bid being priced out against competitors who have offered the minimum requirement. Not impossible, but my suspicion is that it will be 120 new units ordered by the next Northern franchisee and no more, so plenty of creative recycling to look forward to.

 

[Chris125]

That a very big 'If' - specifying more than the stipulated minimum of 120 units risks any tendered bid being priced out against competitors who have offered the minimum requirement.

It's worth noting that the ITT stipulates a minimum of 120 *vehicles*, so more like 30-40 units depending on length.

Chris

 

[Haydn1971]

Class 707 ? Is that official ?

 

[D365]

Class 707 ? Is that official ?

Affirmative. Makes ever less sense to me, even than when the Desiro City Thameslink '700' designation came into the public domain, but there you have it :P
[^ Yes, that's linking to the Class 707 wiki - SWT order for a brand-new 30 x 5-car fleet]

 

[Hattermick]

Isn't the Class 707 designation for SWT 30 x 5 car units ?

 

[David Goddard]

Would love to know what they class as "Shorter", "middle" and "longer" distance.
Given that ATW have (at some point) had class 150s working Fishguard to Cheltenham which is only two miles shorter than London to Leeds.
I assume 182 refers to 185.

 

[Hophead]

That a very big 'If' - specifying more than the stipulated minimum of 120 units risks any tendered bid being priced out against competitors who have offered the minimum requirement. Not impossible, but my suspicion is that it will be 120 new units ordered by the next Northern franchisee and no more, so plenty of creative recycling to look forward to.

I suppose it's too much to hope that there could be options for further units stretching some years into the future? That's how it seems to work on the continent and, over here, has proven handy when additional EMUs have been procured at short notice and with minimal fuss.

 

[gage75]

I maintain this spread sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iw2hC40sjuVAZA8c4pJKJEMW-3EPuDmAsSi8-3tga_0/edit?usp=sharing

of status of rolling stock orders in the public domain.

Just looked at your spreadsheet, which is very good, but I fear you have made an oversight in that LOROL are only getting vehicles not any extra units, with regard to he current Capitalstar Fleet, unless I am mistaken

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Class 707 ? Is that official ?

It must be.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/ca...etID=8822&option=52&sort=DESC&nDepartmentID=1

That job advert describes then as class 707, don't know if that will be for all Desiro cities configured for dc only

 

[D365]

Just looked at your spreadsheet, which is very good, but I fear you have made an oversight in that LOROL are only getting vehicles not any extra units, unless I am mistaken

The procurement process for a fleet for Lea Valley Lines/Goblin electric/Romford-Upminister takeover is a new order and not related to the 57 additional carriages being delivered for the Capitalstar 5-car project.

Where does OP have knowledge of 45 units from? My sources state only 'at least 39' - 30/8/1 split.

 

[petersi]

The procurement process for a fleet for Lea Valley Lines/Goblin electric/Romford-Upminister takeover is a new order and not related to the 57 additional carriages being delivered for the Capitalstar 5-car project.

Where does OP have knowledge of 45 units from? My sources state only 'at least 39' - 30/8/1 split.

I cannot document it but it has been reported that the order has been increased to 45 five.(may have been on this group)

If some one can confirm one way or other I will correct as necessary.

 

[D6975]

I see that you have a possible 40 extra EGIP coaches marked up against the 3 car sets. I thought the option was for 10 extra 3 car sets, 30 vehicles, or has this changed? Is it intended to lengthen the most of the 3s to 4s if the extra vehicles are authorised?

 

[petersi]

I see that you have a possible 40 extra EGIP coaches marked up against the 3 car sets. I thought the option was for 10 extra 3 car sets, 30 vehicles, or has this changed? Is it intended to lengthen the most of the 3s to 4s if the extra vehicles are authorised?

No I think its an error on my part

Thanks

 

[Hophead]

I cannot document it but it has been reported that the order has been increased to 45 five.(may have been on this group)

If some one can confirm one way or other I will correct as necessary.

A report on Focus Transport suggests that number, with the 6 additional 4-car units to be used on Watford services (and a consequent mini-cascade). Not saying that makes it official, but the information's out and about.

 

[43074]

Where does OP have knowledge of 45 units from? My sources state only 'at least 39' - 30/8/1 split.

Nice to see you posting regularly again

The 30/8/1 split is correct, however there are also 6 more for the Watford DC services which were added recently, and that will allow more 5-car 378s to run on the North & West London Lines. (Source: Modern Railways magazine)

 

[D365]

A report on Focus Transport suggests that number, with the 6 additional 4-car units to be used on Watford services (and a consequent mini-cascade). Not saying that makes it official, but the information's out and about.

Ah I did hear mutterings of this possibility, but originally it was purported to be an add-on to the 378 fifth-car build. Either the outstanding contract with Bombardier doesn't allow this to be viable, or they must find some serious better value if they're opting for what is non-standard for the moment; though of course it will be in common with the Goblin electrics, albeit with the proviso that they ensure DC-equipped units remain on the Watford line.

 

[gage75]

It must be.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/ca...etID=8822&option=52&sort=DESC&nDepartmentID=1

That job advert describes then as class 707, don't know if that will be for all Desiro cities configured for dc only

It's been confirmed in this months Railway Magazine

 

[swt_passenger]

It's been confirmed in this months Railway Magazine

Modern Railways had already referred to them as 707s about 6 months ago though, hence the number being discussed in these forums back in September...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How long before they get nicknamed "Boeings" I wonder?

 

[gage75]

How long before they get nicknamed "Boeings" I wonder?

Hmmm now??

 

[swt_passenger]

How long before they get nicknamed "Boeings" I wonder?

The name can be found in wnxx in a post made on Sept 28th. I don't think it has caught on though...

 

[samuelmorris]

I might perhaps be asking a bit much here, but does anyone know why they specifically chose 707? It might not be high on the list of priorities, but a new set of class numbers would have made a good opportunity not to scatter the class numbers all over the place like they are with the 3xx series. 707 seems an odd choice to jump to for a unit that is a different configuration of the same product as the 700. 701 or 702 maybe, or even 705 to represent 5-car I could understand, but 707?