Leyland to Warrington

[hairyhandedfool]

I was planning on not getting involved in this thread again, but I can't help but intervene when you post something as grossly wrong as this.



Jesus christ

Well then they have changed the wording since I last read it and no-one bothered to brief anyone about it (as usual), however I maintain that the shortest route is to Warrington Bank Quay.

Also. The NRCoC is the contract, it is not "part of" it.

EDIT: Infact the passage you quote is not in the Routeing Guide is it? It's just on the website that you can access it from. Not siure that is in the NRCoC either, but I guess you won't agree with me there either.

Further EDIT: The ticket NRES seems to show me, for travel only via Deansgate, is the 'Rte Manchester' fare, not the 'Rte Any Permitted' one.

 

[Merseysider]

Well then they have changed the wording since I last read it and no-one bothered to brief anyone about it (as usual), however I maintain that the shortest route is to Warrington Bank Quay.

Also. The NRCoC is the contract, it is not "part of" it.

And that's fair enough, I can't blame you for not being kept updated with changes to the RG etc. But a little extra research never hurts!

However, the NRCoC is just part of the contract between the passenger and the railway, as laid out on page 5 of the NRCoC:

Tickets remain the property of the relevant Train Company. Each ticket is issued subject to:
(a) these Conditions;
(b) the applicable Byelaws;
(c) the conditions which apply to Electronic Tickets, Smartcards, other devices used for storing Electronic Tickets and certain types of reduced and discounted
fare tickets as set out in the notices and other publications issued by the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use; and
(d) the conditions set out in the notices and other publications issued by another person if the ticket enables you to use any of their goods or services. Train Companies will ensure that you can be provided with or have access to the conditions applying to any ticket you buy, as well as the Byelaws, before you buy your ticket.

The information contained in the Routeing Guide is unquestionably part of the Contract to travel - if it wasn't, it would be useless!

 

[crehld]

Well then they have changed the wording since I last read it and no-one bothered to brief anyone about it (as usual),

Perhaps. This stuff seems to change all the time. I would have thought TOC employees would be offered appropriate and comprehensive training... perhaps not. Just spare a thought for passengers who are expected to keep pace with these changes and cannot receive the benefit from such training. I make an effort to try and comprehend all of this information, partly because I have a faint interest in it and partly because I'm a little fed up with being told roughly 1 in 10 times by staff from selected TOCs my ticket is not valid, despite it clearly being so (e.g. shortest route not permitted, break of journey not allowed on on anytime tickets, there being no such thing as one month validity on the return portion of an anytime return despite it saying so on the ticket, etc. etc.). Joe public has to rely on the word of railway staff, which unfortunately is very occasionally not the best source of advice.

however I maintain that the shortest route is to Warrington Bank Quay.

I really don't understand the obsession with Bank Quay station. The journey is between Leyland and Warrington Central. The shortest route between these two stations goes nowhere near Bank Quay.

Also. The NRCoC is the contract, it is not "part of" it.

I refer you to Condition 1 of said NRCoC.

EDIT: Infact the passage you quote is not in the Routeing Guide is it? It's just on the website that you can access it from. Not siure that is in the NRCoC either, but I guess you won't agree with me there either.

The website is the routing guide. And the routing guide is explicitly referred to in the NRCoC as JakeF's previous post quite clearly sets out.

Further EDIT: The ticket NRES seems to show me, for travel only via Deansgate, is the 'Rte Manchester' fare, not the 'Rte Any Permitted' one.

I believe you were the one to point out a website is only as good as its programming. Besides, it doesn't matter that the NRES system doesn't show the any permitted ticket. As you keep reminding us the shortest route is always permitted.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I really don't understand the obsession with Bank Quay station. The journey is between Leyland and Warrington Central. The shortest route between these two stations goes nowhere near Bank Quay.

The ticket is to Warrington Stations. Warrington Bank Quay is part of Warrington Stations and the shortest route, to either of the Warrington stations, is to Bank Quay.

....I refer you to Condition 1 of said NRCoC.

Condition 1 of the NRCoC is part of the NRCoC is it not? Or have I missed some simple logic there?

....The website is the routing guide. And the routing guide is explicitly referred to in the NRCoC as JakeF's previous post quite clearly sets out.

The Routeing Guide is a document, the website holds the document. You saying that is like you saying that the Northern Rail website is the Passengers Charter because you can find the Passengers Charter on it.

....I believe you were the one to point out a website is only as good as its programming. Besides, it doesn't matter that the NRES system doesn't show the any permitted ticket. As you keep reminding us the shortest route is always permitted.

It does matter because the 'Any Permitted' fare is CHEAPER than the 'Via Manchester' fare and if the website thought it was the shortest route it would show the 'Any Permitted' fare instead. I only added that because other people seemed to be implying that the website was showing the 'Any Permitted' fare to be valid that way as some sort of justification of it being the shortest route and it seems that it doesn't. I maintain, and indeed always have maintained, that a computer programme is only as good as it's programming.

 

[Merseysider]

It does matter because the 'Any Permitted' fare is CHEAPER than the 'Via Manchester' fare...

That doesn't change a thing here! That reminds me about this thread I stumbled across not too long ago. Price doesn't determine validity.

Edit: The TPE website won't sell an 'Any Permitted' fare via Deansgate, but it will allow travel via MCO. Which isn't allowed, surely?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That doesn't change a thing here! That reminds me about this thread I stumbled across not too long ago.

Hold on, so a point was made that NRES shows the 'Any Permitted' ticket to be valid via Manchester. It is then argued that because NRES is always right, it must be valid. When I look at NRES it seems that only the 'Via Manchester' fare is shown and when I mention that, and that the 'Any Permitted' fare being cheaper means that NRES seems not to think it's valid, all of a sudden NRES "doesn't change a thing"?

 

[Merseysider]

Hold on, so a point was made that NRES shows the 'Any Permitted' ticket to be valid via Manchester. It is then argued that because NRES is always right, it must be valid. When I look at NRES it seems that only the 'Via Manchester' fare is shown and when I mention that, and that the 'Any Permitted' fare being cheaper means that NRES seems not to think it's valid, all of a sudden NRES "doesn't change a thing"?

The following is fact, not opinion.

Leyland is associated with Bolton, Wigan and Preston routeing points.
Warrington Central is a member of the Warrington Group routeing point.
Leyland passes the fares check for routeing point Bolton.
Bolton - Warrington is permitted on Map NR.
Map NR goes Bolton - (Deansgate) - Warrington.
Therefore, Leyland - Deansgate - Warrington Central is a permitted route.
An Any Permitted ticket can be used on all permitted routes shown in the Routeing Guide, even if a route has a higher price than the Any Permitted fare.

Therefore, NRE should offer the Any Permitted ticket via Deansgate.

 

[crehld]

The ticket is to Warrington Stations. Warrington Bank Quay is part of Warrington Stations and the shortest route, to either of the Warrington stations, is to Bank Quay.

Yes, the ticket say WARRINGTON STNS on it. This means it is either valid to Bank Quay or Central. In my view it gives you the choice between the two. There may be many legitimate reasons why one would prefer to use Warrington Central over Bank Quay, be they for the fact it's closer to the town centre, you may live closer, you may have mobility issues preventing you from accessing Bank Quay etc etc.

Condition 1 of the NRCoC is part of the NRCoC is it not? Or have I missed some simple logic there?

Yes, Condition 1 of the NRCoC is part of the NRCoC. If you read it you will discover that it says the contract between is defined in a number of ways, part of which (but not wholly) is defined by the NRCoC. This is in black and white so I have no ideas why you seem to take issue with this.

The Routeing Guide is a document, the website holds the document. You saying that is like you saying that the Northern Rail website is the Passengers Charter because you can find the Passengers Charter on it.

To my knowledge there is no paper single volume routing guide published any more, nor has there been for many years. In lieu of this the Routing Guide section on the ATOC website, and the numerous PDFs, tables, interactive maps, etc, held within it acts as the routing guide.

It does matter because the 'Any Permitted' fare is CHEAPER than the 'Via Manchester' fare and if the website thought it was the shortest route it would show the 'Any Permitted' fare instead.

I don't understand... are you suggesting validity is determined by price... this is clearly incorrect.

I only added that because other people seemed to be implying that the website was showing the 'Any Permitted' fare to be valid that way as some sort of justification of it being the shortest route and it seems that it doesn't. I maintain, and indeed always have maintained, that a computer programme is only as good as it's programming.

At no point have people suggested that the shortest route is determined by the website (unless I've misunderstood you here?). We have pointed out that the shortest route between two stations is always valid, additional validity is offered in the routing guide, which itself confers additional validity to itineraries produced by the NRE website.

Hold on, so a point was made that NRES shows the 'Any Permitted' ticket to be valid via Manchester. It is then argued that because NRES is always right, it must be valid.

It is not necessarily right (refer to your repeated statements that the programming can be wrong), but it is always valid.

When I look at NRES it seems that only the 'Via Manchester' fare is shown and when I mention that, and that the 'Any Permitted' fare being cheaper means that NRES seems not to think it's valid, all of a sudden NRES "doesn't change a thing"?

This point was being made in reference to the Sankey-Warrington fare which NRE showed as valid to Warrington Central. This point was being made for your benefit because you claimed itineraries produced by NRE had no affect on validity, which is quite clearly incorrect. Admittedly this was slightly off topic so easy to see where the confusion can arise. As you keep reminding us there are several ways of determining route validity. The shortest route is always valid. So to are itineraries produced by NRE. The two are not mutually exclusive, nor do they have to agree with each other for a route to be valid.

It's obvious you're never going to agree, despite efforts to refer you to relevant documentation, so I'm not going to waste any more time going over the same ground.

 

[Merseysider]

It's obvious you're never going to agree, despite efforts to refer you to relevant documentation, so I'm not going to waste any more time going over the same ground.

Well, you know what they say about leading a horse to water.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, the ticket say WARRINGTON STNS on it. This means it is either valid to Bank Quay or Central. In my view it gives you the choice between the two.

And therein lies the problem. In my view, and I guess in that of hairyhandedfool, it effectively makes the grouped stations considered as one station, and as such does nothing of the sort - to me, you have to use the one that is relevant to your journey (or more, if more than one is).

In a lot of cases more than one will be - using Manchester as an example, if you are travelling from Ashburys, say, you could reasonably choose between Piccadilly, Oxford Road or Deansgate. However I would say that continuing on out to Salford Crescent then going back into Victoria was taking the mick somewhat. (Though the Ordsall Chord will change that by making a journey possible to Victoria from Ashburys effectively without leaving Manchester Stns).

Neil

 

[Deerfold]

Just wondering.

If Shipley - Bradford Stns was only valid to Forster Square as that's the shortest route why is the ticket not ANY PERMITTED, but NOT VIA LEEDS - surely this would not be required if it was not otherwise permitted to travel on the shortest route to Bradford Interchange?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't understand... are you suggesting validity is determined by price... this is clearly incorrect.....

.... An "any permitted" ticket cannot be used for travel on a route not listed in the
Routeing Guide for which a higher priced route specific fare exists. It can be used on any route
not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists. ....

http://iblocks-rg-publication.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/nrg_instructions.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just wondering.

If Shipley - Bradford Stns was only valid to Forster Square as that's the shortest route why is the ticket not ANY PERMITTED, but NOT VIA LEEDS - surely this would not be required if it was not otherwise permitted to travel on the shortest route to Bradford Interchange?

I believe, and I am willing to be corrected here, that certain tickets gained that routeing after a certain long-winded thread on this forum.

 

[Merseysider]

Originally Posted by Routeing Guide Instructions Page 3 (Step 4)
.... An "any permitted" ticket cannot be used for travel on a route not listed in the
Routeing Guide for which a higher priced route specific fare exists. It can be used on any route
not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists. ....

This isn't relevant here because 'via Manchester' is a permitted route.

 

[TOCDriver]

lol Great fun this thread. If I were a punter, by far the easiest route would be hopping on a train to Wigan (15 min ride at max, even on a Northern 142)and then getting the 10 minute ride to Warrington via Virgin. Going via Manchester would take much, much longer. Can't see what the fuss is about lol

 

[Deerfold]

lol Great fun this thread. If I were a punter, by far the easiest route would be hopping on a train to Wigan (15 min ride at max, even on a Northern 142)and then getting the 10 minute ride to Warrington via Virgin. Going via Manchester would take much, much longer. Can't see what the fuss is about lol

There's often more than one valid or useful route. Hopefully we'll never be restricted by only the easiest route. If we were, Halifax punters might be restricted to only the handful of GC routes a day to London as it's easier to jump on one off them then to go to Leeds and change.

 

[TOCDriver]

There's often more than one valid or useful route. Hopefully we'll never be restricted by only the easiest route. If we were, Halifax punters might be restricted to only the handful of GC routes a day to London as it's easier to jump on one off them then to go to Leeds and change.

True, and that's a good thing for there to be more than one option. But Leyland to Warrington is a no-brainer for most people. Going via Manchester would take at least 90 mins if not closer to two hours.

 

[sheff1]

Yes, the ticket say WARRINGTON STNS on it. This means it is either valid to Bank Quay or Central. In my view it gives you the choice between the two.

And therein lies the problem. In my view, and I guess in that of hairyhandedfool, it effectively makes the grouped stations considered as one station, and as such does nothing of the sort - to me, you have to use the one that is relevant to your journey (or more, if more than one is).

Say, someone finishs a meeting in an office next to Warrington Central station at 1220. There is a convenient connection home to Leyland:
Warr Cen dep 1234 - Deansgate arr 1259 dep 1309 - Leyland arr 1352.

The alternative 'connection' from Bank Quay is:
Warr BQ dep 1327 - Wigan NW arr 1337 dep 1403 - Leyland arr 1419.

It is obvious to me that Warrington Central is the relevant station for this journey and a passenger in perfectly entitled to travel from there, as above, with a ticket from Warrington Stns.

Are you saying that the passenger should take a lengthy walk across Warrington (maybe in pouring rain), have to wait on Bank Quay for around 45 mins, wait again at Wigan NW for nearly half an hour before eventually getting home almost half an hour later than using the Warrington Central option ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's often more than one valid or useful route. Hopefully we'll never be restricted by only the easiest route. If we were, Halifax punters might be restricted to only the handful of GC routes a day to London as it's easier to jump on one off them then to go to Leeds and change.

No, but there is no sense in allowing an excessively circuitous route, unless a higher fare is applied to it for those who *really* must.

No-one within their right mind would travel from Warrington to Leyland via anything other than the WCML changing at Wigan (or possibly, at a push, a double-back from Preston, which probably isn't allowed but is far more logical than via Manchester). Unless they wanted to visit Manchester on the way, in which case a routed fare at a higher price might be useful.

So (to use the other recent example) Liverpool to London via Brum makes sense, as does via the main WCML, as arguably does via the Chiltern line (though this is no longer valid). Via Preston, or via Wigan, or via Manchester don't really make sense[1] - you are going far out of your way. Via Warrington only just does.

[1] Other than possibly the last train of the day, which is much later for Manchester, though really that just needs solving. It could be run using a pair of Voyagers splitting at Crewe if there isn't much demand.

Neil

 

[sheff1]

No-one within their right mind would travel from Warrington to Leyland via anything other than the WCML changing at Wigan (or possibly, at a push, a double-back from Preston, which probably isn't allowed but is far more logical than via Manchester).

Glad you think that the businessman in my post #47 above is not of right mind :cry:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are you saying that the passenger should take a lengthy walk across Warrington (maybe in pouring rain), have to wait on Bank Quay for around 45 mins, wait again at Wigan NW for nearly half an hour before eventually getting home almost half an hour later than using the Warrington Central option ?

Allowing a double-back via Preston (which is quicker than a change at Wigan) would arguably make a lot more sense than that.

Neil

 

[sheff1]

Allowing a double-back via Preston (which is quicker than a change at Wigan) would arguably make a lot more sense than that.

Neil

Possibly, but I do not think a Warrington Stns to Leyland ticket is valid via Preston. Even if it is/was the passenger would still arrive home later than going via Deansgate and the lengthy walk across Warrington remains.

 

[Merseysider]

This isn't about what should be valid, it's about what is.
Leyland - Warrington has a permitted route via Deansgate (Manchester Group). This is only to Warrington Central because the line from DGT to WAC does not pass through NLW. So if that isn't a clear enough indicator of the ticket's validity to Warrington Central then I don't know what is.

 

[kieron]

The shortest route is in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage. The Routeing Guide usually adds permitted routes to that.

While I understand that you may feel that the line in the NRCOC means one thing and one thing only, I don't find that.

My intention with the comment you replied to was to highlight the fact that there are extra rules for journey which involve London Terminals which don't affect journeys which don't.

I'm not confident that a prosecution for travelling from Watford Junction to Charing Cross on a paper point-to-point ticket would succeed if argued on that basis, but I feel those extra rules mean that Watford Junction-London could be a different case to Leyland-Warrington, so may belong in a different thread.

I have the strangest feeling computer programmes have been mentioned previously in this thread.......

Really? Would you like to check?

Or would you like to respond to what I wrote?

I can' t tell if you're dismissing the whole idea of web sites being programmed in a way which reflects their designer's intentions, or the idea of anything could be true which might differ from your personal interpretation of clause 13(a)(ii) in the NRCOC and pages 1 and F1 of the Routeing Guide.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This isn't relevant here because 'via Manchester' is a permitted route.

I guess that would depend on why you believe it to be a permitted route and what the permitted routes actually are. Never-the-less, the point was made that price doesn't affect validity and that was one of three parts of the Routeing Guide, that sprung to mind, which mentions using fares to determine validity.

Say, someone finishs a meeting in an office next to Warrington Central station at 1220. There is a convenient connection home to Leyland:
Warr Cen dep 1234 - Deansgate arr 1259 dep 1309 - Leyland arr 1352.

The alternative 'connection' from Bank Quay is:
Warr BQ dep 1327 - Wigan NW arr 1337 dep 1403 - Leyland arr 1419.

It is obvious to me that Warrington Central is the relevant station for this journey and a passenger in perfectly entitled to travel from there, as above, with a ticket from Warrington Stns.

Are you saying that the passenger should take a lengthy walk across Warrington (maybe in pouring rain), have to wait on Bank Quay for around 45 mins, wait again at Wigan NW for nearly half an hour before eventually getting home almost half an hour later than using the Warrington Central option ?

A passenger may take any route they want to, they just have to pay the correct fare for it. For example, I could make a journey from Glasgow to Edinburgh via Euston and Kings Cross, I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be allowed, but I doubt I'd be allowed to use a Glasgow-Edinburgh single for it. However, I'm sure the railway would have no problems with me buying a single for Glasgow-London and a single for London-Edinburgh to cover the journey.

This isn't about what should be valid, it's about what is.

What a good point.

Leyland - Warrington has a permitted route via Deansgate (Manchester Group). This is only to Warrington Central because the line from DGT to WAC does not pass through NLW. So if that isn't a clear enough indicator of the ticket's validity to Warrington Central then I don't know what is.

Are you suggesting it is a mapped route rather than the shortest route? What has Newton-le-Willows got to do with it?

While I understand that you may feel that the line in the NRCOC means one thing and one thing only, I don't find that.

My intention with the comment you replied to was to highlight the fact that there are extra rules for journey which involve London Terminals which don't affect journeys which don't....

Extra rules that are in the Routeing Guide? Even the Routeing Guide says that if you are using the shortest route you don't need to consult it.

Indeed, the premise that 'negative easements' cannot affect the shortest route hinge on the shortest route not being in the Routeing Guide.

Really? Would you like to check?

Or would you like to respond to what I wrote?

I can' t tell if you're dismissing the whole idea of web sites being programmed in a way which reflects their designer's intentions, or the idea of anything could be true which might differ from your personal interpretation of clause 13(a)(ii) in the NRCOC and pages 1 and F1 of the Routeing Guide.

I was mearly attempting to re-iterate that the programme is only as good as it's programming, something that I had previous said.

 

[Merseysider]

Are you suggesting it is a mapped route rather than the shortest route? What has Newton-le-Willows got to do with it?

I'm saying it's a mapped route as well as the shortest route to WAC. Please take a moment to read post 37, where I lay out the reasoning, in simple steps, why Leyland - Warrington Central is permitted via Deansgate.

There is a line joining Bolton to Manchester Group. Deansgate is a member of Manchester Group. There is then a line from Manchester Group to Warrington Group.

Now, what has Newton-le-Willows got to do with it, you ask? Well there are two ways to get from Manchester Group to Warrington Group.

One is direct to Warrington Central. The other is via Earlestown (and Newton-le-Willows) to Bank Quay. As the line from Manchester Group to Warrington Group does not pass through NLW or ERL, the only conclusion is that it leads to Warrington Central.

TL;DR - Leyland - Deansgate - Warrington Central is permitted, because it's a mapped route.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm saying it's a mapped route as well as the shortest route to WAC. Please take a moment to read post 37, where I lay out the reasoning, in simple steps, why Leyland - Warrington Central is permitted via Deansgate.

There is a line joining Bolton to Manchester Group. Deansgate is a member of Manchester Group. There is then a line from Manchester Group to Warrington Group....

As far as the mapped route goes, based on the written easement reproduced earlier in this thread, I couldn't disagree, however, I suspect the written easement is not the same as the coded easement used by journey planners. This may be why NRES disagrees (I'm sure you can see what I mean about programming now). That fact that NRES disagrees could be used as argument that it is not permitted, based on the instructions of the Routeing Guide. I'm not suggesting I agree or disagree with that last part, I'm just putting it across as a point of view.

....Now, what has Newton-le-Willows got to do with it, you ask? Well there are two ways to get from Manchester Group to Warrington Group.

One is direct to Warrington Central. The other is via Earlestown (and Newton-le-Willows) to Bank Quay. As the line from Manchester Group to Warrington Group does not pass through NLW or ERL, the only conclusion is that it leads to Warrington Central....

Ah, so when you said "This is only to Warrington Central because the line from DGT to WAC does not pass through NLW" you meant the line on the map in the Routeing Guide.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A passenger may take any route they want to, they just have to pay the correct fare for it. For example, I could make a journey from Glasgow to Edinburgh via Euston and Kings Cross, I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be allowed, but I doubt I'd be allowed to use a Glasgow-Edinburgh single for it. However, I'm sure the railway would have no problems with me buying a single for Glasgow-London and a single for London-Edinburgh to cover the journey.

To be fair to other posters in the thread, the difficulty with this is that if you do want to take a non-permitted route you end up a bit stuck financially, as you have a return ticket you've already bought that you can't use at all, having to buy two singles to take the route you wish.

This is one reason I strongly advocate single ticket pricing (i.e. a return is just two singles, with a balance of reduced single prices and slightly increased 2x single prices over the return to make such a change revenue neutral). In this Leyland case, there are three possible routes, each of which may be quickest, but I don't know which makes sense until I make my return journey, and there is no ticket valid for all three. So I'd purchase a ticket outward, and only purchase the return when I knew the intended route (be that direct, via Manchester or a double-back via Preston).

Remove the disadvantage of using multiple single tickets to make up your required route, or three point journey, or whatever you need to do, and restrictive routeing becomes of very little concern. Not only that, but you could completely do away with complicated excesses, replacing them with refund and reissue, perhaps waiving the admin fee where another comparable ticket is issued on the spot.

Neil

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To be fair to other posters in the thread, the difficulty with this is that if you do want to take a non-permitted route you end up a bit stuck financially, as you have a return ticket you've already bought that you can't use at all, having to buy two singles to take the route you wish.

This is one reason I strongly advocate single ticket pricing (i.e. a return is just two singles, with a balance of reduced single prices and slightly increased 2x single prices over the return to make such a change revenue neutral). In this Leyland case, there are three possible routes, each of which may be quickest, but I don't know which makes sense until I make my return journey. So I'd purchase a ticket outward, and only purchase the return when I knew the intended route (be that direct, via Manchester or a double-back via Preston).

Neil

If off-route, you can get an excess between the price paid and the cost of the ticket(s) needed to cover the journey actually made.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If off-route, you can get an excess between the price paid and the cost of the ticket(s) needed to cover the journey actually made.

That certainly helps matters...what exactly would be issued in this case?

Neil

 

[Haywain]

Are you saying that the passenger should take a lengthy walk across Warrington (maybe in pouring rain), have to wait on Bank Quay for around 45 mins, wait again at Wigan NW for nearly half an hour before eventually getting home almost half an hour later than using the Warrington Central option ?

The weather plays no part in deciding what routing is valid, and the introduction of it is irrelevant (and ridiculous, in my view).