Lewes derailment - Thursday 13th August

[hwl]

intriguing how none of the pics show the sides that were facing the ground

The pics are of the vehicle that remained upright...

 

[gabrielhj07]

That looks to be the leading vehicle of 387304, not trailing. If it was the trailing vehicle, the side in the photo would have been the one it came to rest on and it clearly isn't.

Cheers I'll update it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Another video off instagram posted by Daily Mirror cant find it on their news website but its show the pantograph coach being moved


The coach has a broken window so not if that was the side on the ground as the rest of the vehicle looks remarkable intact.The mirrors caption isnt even correct they arent
interested!!

Edit: looking at Sky News copter footage it looks like coach 7 so that would be the side on the embankment if im correct but cant be sure has coaches 6 & 7 are obscured by trees.

 

[Intercity_225]

Another video off instagram posted by Daily Mirror cant find it on their news website but its show the pantograph coach being moved

View attachment 210007
The coach has a broken window so not if that was the side on the ground as the rest of the vehicle looks remarkable intact.The mirrors caption isnt even correct they arent interested!!

They couldn't care less!

 

[cats_five]

Another video off instagram posted by Daily Mirror cant find it on their news website but its show the pantograph coach being moved

View attachment 210007
The coach has a broken window so not if that was the side on the ground as the rest of the vehicle looks remarkable intact.The mirrors caption isnt even correct they arent
interested!!

Edit: looking at Sky News copter footage it looks like coach 7 so that would be the side on the embankment if im correct but cant be sure has coaches 6 & 7 are obscured by trees.

Irony surely?

 

[BRX]

Photo of the situation as of a couple of hours ago. All carriages gone now. Can see how much they've built up the embankment on the west side.

 

[Snow1964]

Photo of the situation as of a couple of hours ago. All carriages gone now. Can see how much they've built up the embankment on the west side.

View attachment 210033

If the train recovery is now done, another 9 days to relay the track for 1st September reopening seems a bit generous to me. But perhaps something complicated and time consuming hasn't been revealed

 

[35B]

If the train recovery is now done, another 9 days to relay the track for 1st September reopening seems a bit generous to me. But perhaps something complicated and time consuming hasn't been revealed

There has been mention of dealing with the earthworks

 

[CHAPS2034]

Sure it could, but I doubt RAIB would have come out and said this without being sure about what they are reporting. They don't tend to deal in "maybes" and take great care in their statements.

I know RAIB take great care in their statements.

My posting about heat haze was in reference to a question about the UP line, not the down line that the accident train was travelling on.

If RAIB have said there was also distortion on the UP line, I must have missed it.

 

[Rick1984]

It's lucky it derailed where it did as it looks like potentially not could have ended up in the Ouse

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If the train recovery is now done, another 9 days to relay the track for 1st September reopening seems a bit generous to me. But perhaps something complicated and time consuming hasn't been revealed

Indeed the earthworks has come on a pace despite having the train recovery restricting the site for the last few days so im with you that another 9 days seems unnecessary. Maybe they've held back the track renewal resources for planned work this weekend and they wont be available till next week. Perhaps they will surprise us.

 

[35B]

Indeed the earthworks has come on a pace despite having the train recovery restricting the site for the last few days so im with you that another 9 days seems unnecessary. Maybe they've held back the track renewal resources for planned work this weekend and they wont be available till next week. Perhaps they will surprise us.

And if it’s more than just track & ballast?

 

[edwin_m]

Recent examples show that stabilising an embankment can take a lot more than a few days.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And if it’s more than just track & ballast?

Its going to include a cable route both sides for sure.We already know they've put the S&T cables in a temporary route so they will need reinstating. Then there will the 33kV traction power distribution cables. Thats another 2-3 days work but can be done partly in parallel with track relaying.

Whats not yet clear is what work is going to be undertaken on the down side embankment where the train derailed. In facts its not clear why they've widen the embankment on the upside maybe they already had a plan to remediate the whole embankment in this area and they've accelerated the works given the incident.

Hopefully we will continue to get some images to see things unfold.

 

[6PAN]

Maybe the up side embankment was strengthened to ensure that it could support the Kirow cranes during the recovery operation?

 

[BRX]

Maybe the up side embankment was strengthened to ensure that it could support the Kirow cranes during the recovery operation?

That's what I'd assumed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2026 ==

What I also noticed this morning is that the "up" line still seemed to be in place and continuous.

 

[Annetts key]

And if it’s more than just track & ballast?

Yes, we have little to no information on what signalling cables and equipment has been damaged, destroyed or disturbed. Plus there is the third rail and maybe electrification equipment that requires work. And maybe other services, cables or equipment, such as telecommunications (maybe including fibre optic cable).

With some of the work on the signalling cables and equipment, in practice, only some work can be carried out with the track damaged or occupied by a train (or other on track equipment). So this work may have to wait until all the track repair and replacement work is completed.

Plus, if there are unknowns, it's best to be conservative in your estimated reopening date. You can always reopen earlier than advertised. Which is much better than giving a date and then over running...

 

[Deepgreen]

Apologies if it has been mentioned already, but the CCTV from the rear of a previous train shows a bag, or bags, of what is presumably ballast standing by the line at the point of the kink. Does this indicate preparation for a job to be done (i.e. with knowledge of the defect) but yet to be undertaken? If so, why was a speed restriction not imposed until the work was done?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 13:41 ==

If the track is a continuous track as said to me earlier.

Can someone explain to me how a continuous rail track can expand with the hot or cold weather please

Hot sunshine heats up rails of any length, but with continuous welded rail (CWR) the long lengths have fewer places between their lengths to expand and therefore the expansion pressure builds up to a point where the rail deforms to release the pressure. Long stretches of CWR usually have expansion joints built into them. Rails are usually stressed to a temperature of 27C when laid to try to accommodate the heating, but this also leads to reverse stresses from contraction in very low temperatures, sometimes leading to broken or cracked rails.

 

[Bald Rick]

Long stretches of CWR usually have expansion joints built into them.

They don’t as they are not needed.

The stressing of the rails accommodates the expansion forces up to 27C, and the track system itself accommodates the forces above that temperature (up to a limit, which varies due to a variety of factors, see my post on the CWR thread).

‘Expansion joints’ in CWR are called Breather Switches, and they are not for expansion of the CWR. They are used where CWR is joined to non-CWR, including ‘unstrengthened’ Switches and Crossings. The expansion space is for the non-CWR elements to expand into.

 

[edwin_m]

Hot sunshine heats up rails of any length, but with continuous welded rail (CWR) the long lengths have fewer places between their lengths to expand and therefore the expansion pressure builds up to a point where the rail deforms to release the pressure. Long stretches of CWR usually have expansion joints built into them. Rails are usually stressed to a temperature of 27C when laid to try to accommodate the heating, but this also leads to reverse stresses from contraction in very low temperatures, sometimes leading to broken or cracked rails.

There's a lengthy discussion of CWR here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/pros-and-cons-of-continuous-welded-rail-cwr.305887/

 

[Deepgreen]

They don’t as they are not needed.

The stressing of the rails accommodates the expansion forces up to 27C, and the track system itself accommodates the forces above that temperature (up to a limit, which varies due to a variety of factors, see my post on the CWR thread).

‘Expansion joints’ in CWR are called Breather Switches, and they are not for expansion of the CWR. They are used where CWR is joined to non-CWR, including ‘unstrengthened’ Switches and Crossings. The expansion space is for the non-CWR elements to expand into.

Thanks - I happily sit corrected! One thing I'm also unclear about - is the 27C the air temperature or rail temperature?

 

[Elecman]

Air Temperature

 

[mrl3bon]

Apologies if it has been mentioned already, but the CCTV from the rear of a previous train shows a bag, or bags, of what is presumably ballast standing by the line at the point of the kink. Does this indicate preparation for a job to be done (i.e. with knowledge of the defect) but yet to be undertaken? If so, why was a speed restriction not imposed until the work was done?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 13:41 ==


Hot sunshine heats up rails of any length, but with continuous welded rail (CWR) the long lengths have fewer places between their lengths to expand and therefore the expansion pressure builds up to a point where the rail deforms to release the pressure. Long stretches of CWR usually have expansion joints built into them. Rails are usually stressed to a temperature of 27C when laid to try to accommodate the heating, but this also leads to reverse stresses from contraction in very low temperatures, sometimes leading to broken or cracked rails.

The ballast bags have been there for quite some time. For as long as I can remember. Also they are on Google aerial imaging.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks - I happily sit corrected! One thing I'm also unclear about - is the 27C the air temperature or rail temperature?

Air Temperature

Rail temperature!

 

[Annetts key]

Rail temperature!

Yes.

For those that don't know, the railway has thermometers that attach to the rail. Every time a weld is prepared, the rail temperature is checked.

The same thermometers are used during hot weather when the P.Way are tasked with hot weather monitoring.

 

[Bald Rick]

For those that don't know, the railway has thermometers that attach to the rail. Every time a weld is prepared, the rail temperature is checked.

Strictly speaking it’s every time a rail is installed or stressed.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Some pictures from NR Sussex showing they've switched sides and are rebuilding the embankment on the Down side.

Pretty extensive works and might as well get it all sorted now given whats happened. Going to be interesting to see what RAIB have to say the cause here.

 

[BRX]

Looks like only partially rebuilding the side to me - the core of the embankment remains as-is.

 

[king_walnut]

Found these on TikTok

 

[Recessio]

Found these on TikTok

Re the choice of song in the first video - I imagine the recovery is not proving to be "dirt cheap"!