Letter relating to journey on XC trains (now resolved)

[furlong]

but maintained I could have been taken to court for fare evasion

Primarily due to the way the train companies are using a decision by the Secretary of State for Transport in 2005 to introduce a new penalty, as far as I can tell.

Read this thread - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133066

I really wish one of the guards had warned me that I should always buy a ticket at the station or this was a possibility but instead they happily sold me a ticket as if this was quite acceptable.

Write to your M.P., perhaps, if you want to take the point further, and see if he or she will pursue the matter with the DfT.

In areas with Penalty Fares schemes, if selling a ticket, guards are required to tell people that a Penalty Fare might have been issued precisely to avoid that sort of situation arising, and there is monitoring to ensure this happens. (Well, that's what the documentation says, at least.) So in effect we have the DfT insisting one thing is necessary to protect passengers in respect of Penalty Fares, yet not offering, perhaps even undermining, that same protection when it added the new penalty to the byelaws.

 

[yorkie]

Hi everyone. Just thought I'd update on my experience of getting threat of a summons after boarding without a ticket. Basically boarded at York without a ticket with the intention of buying on the train. When I asked for the ticket the inspetor refused and took my details....

How odd.

This clearly wasn't a Guard, as nearly all Guards working trains from York would be happy to simply sell you a ticket (albeit, in many cases, an Anytime one).

What train company were you travelling with? (edit - ah, found the thread. Merged!)

It wasn't a race day when there was a makeshift barrier in place, was it?

 

[towndrain]

Forgot to that the settlement offer came after they informed me progress to a court summons had been approved and I sent back a grovelling apology.


Furlong -I don't think the cross country train is eligible for penalty fares. I had been buying the ticket a couple of times a week for about 8 months (and yes I did always buy one), so it's fair to say warnings are definitely not being given to me or anyone I witness buy a ticket on-board in practice.
I'm sympathetic with the plight of ensuring everyone pays, and it is only fair to other passengers, but I fear honest paying customers are inadvertantly getting caught in the net with the current approach.

Yorkie-it definitely was a guard as he had sold me a ticket a few weeks prior to the incident and I saw him on subsequent journeys, always in the capacity of train guard. He stuck in my mind as an especially surly specimen-I bear him no ill though as he has ultimately taught me a valuable lesson, I just wish he'd mentioned it when I'd bought tickets from him before.

 

[Hadders]

last week I made a journey and bought my tickets on trainline

Don't use trainline in future. They're never cheaper despite their claims and they add booking fees and credit card fees. Simply use a train operating company website who do not add these fees and are also able to sell tickets for any journey, regardless of operator.

 

[becon-t]

But The Trainline's app is one of the best apps out there, I use all the time, simple and easy to use and purchase a ticket, well worth an extra 50p compared to navigating train companies dreadful complicated sites.

 

[Greenback]

If you like using the Trainline, then feel free to continue to do so! The majority here would rather not use them on a point of principle, but you can make your own decisions

 

[Puffing Devil]

But The Trainline's app is one of the best apps out there, I use all the time, simple and easy to use and purchase a ticket, well worth an extra 50p compared to navigating train companies dreadful complicated sites.

I echo Greenback's comments.

If you can be tempted elsewhere, have a look at Virgin West Coast which has a stunningly similar interface to the Trainline with no Credit Card or Collection fees. Free post as well if your departure station does not allow collection.

 

[Paul Kelly]

But The Trainline's app is one of the best apps out there, I use all the time, simple and easy to use and purchase a ticket, well worth an extra 50p compared to navigating train companies dreadful complicated sites.

Well you don't have to use a website to buy from a TOC; a lot of them (e.g. Virgin, CrossCountry, GWR) have very nice apps. I do agree the Trainline have been putting a lot of work into polishing their app (their Android app anyway, which is the one I'm familiar with) and it works very nicely now - even allows you to specify via/avoid stations, and shows a wider range of journey opportunities than the Trainline website does.

 

[Agent_c]

I do agree that the TOCs do need a bit more consistency regarding on board sales of tickets to passengers from staffed stations. By allowing it sometimes they can create an impression (of which many of the posts here are evidence of) that this is perfectly acceptable behaviour (notwithstanding the signs and posters at the station that are left unread).

It should just be a straight no, here's your penalty fare (Except for Disabled railcard holders of course).

 

[SJN]

Most conductors can't issue penalty fares though, only unpaid fares notices, which we need to see ID for anyway. A lot of stations in my area have no barriers so these people would be getting a free trip if I refused to sell them a ticket. Even the stations with barriers only issue a ticket, not PF's. If the RPI's happen to be on my train then, fine PF everybody. If there is only me, I will do my best to get them to buy a ticket. When selling one though, I do mention the PF scheme and buying before getting on.

 

[Agent_c]

Most conductors can't issue penalty fares though, only unpaid fares notices, which we need to see ID for anyway. A lot of stations in my area have no barriers so these people would be getting a free trip if I refused to sell them a ticket. Even the stations with barriers only issue a ticket, not PF's. If the RPI's happen to be on my train then, fine PF everybody. If there is only me, I will do my best to get them to buy a ticket. When selling one though, I do mention the PF scheme and buying before getting on.

I'm instead proposing that you would have powers and abilities as a RPI, rather than let them off with a free ride.

 

[towndrain]

Thanks for the advice re the app. Also, thanks to everyone who gave me advice in the first instance, it's very much appreciated.

Najab-I have sent you a PM re picture of the poster at the station as I don't think I can post it directly on here.

 

[island]

The GWR app is very good and charges no fees.

 

[towndrain]

Attached is the warning poster at Sheffield station.

 

[swt_passenger]

When selling one though, I do mention the PF scheme and buying before getting on.

As mentioned earlier, that is a stated requirement of all the 'proper' penalty fare schemes; specifically to warn people that the sale is not creating a precedent.

 

[najaB]

Attached is the warning poster at Sheffield station.

That is a standard Penalty Fares poster, and you're correct that it doesn't mention the possibility of prosecution since a PF is the normal outcome for ticketless travel . I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure York isn't a PF station so a different poster would have been on display (if any was).

 

[towndrain]

OK. I won't be going to York for a while so I'll look next time I'm there. I have to confess I wasn't aware of the poster in Sheffield until I had the problem-I'm probably not very observant but I honestly never really look at advertisement posters. I think periodic tannoy anouncements would be a better way of getting the message out; I was aware 'not to struggle on the stairs as lifts are available' from my very first journey. Same goes for the platforms being slippery when icy.

I would much rather struggle on the stairs than accidentally end up with a criminal record.