Letter from Greater Anglia Prosecutions Unit

[Nuta]

Hi forums,

I've been reading the responses to other Prosecutions Unit Letter threads and I wanted to get feedback on mine as I'm feeling very anxious about it.

(I received a letter from the Greater Anglia Prosecutions Unit saying that I was questioned about the payment of a rail fare, all the evidence is being considered and that I can reply to the letter if I wish by writing on the back of it with any further comments about the incident.)

I travelled to Stansted airport starting my journey on tube and then changing over to the Stansted express. I made the mistake that it seems quite a few others have made by tapping in with my oyster card as I switched platform. I have dyslexia and know that I had tapped in on the way to an airport recently (I later learned it was Gatwick) so assumed all was fine.

I got out at Stansted and was told that I had to pay a penalty fare which really upset me as I had no intention of not paying the rail company so I found paying double really upsetting. They said I had to pay the penalty fare now or they would report me. I did not know what it meant to be reported so I hesitated. She then said that she would report me and I asked if I could pay the penalty fare, and she said I could not.

I have now received the letter and I am unsure what to do. I did not contact the rail company since the incident. It was my first offence of any kind.

I don't know if I should respond or not or what might happen next. Thank you very much for any help.

 

[Clip]

Simply write back to them explaining that you didnt know Oyster was valid on The Stanstead Express and that you are happy to pay any costs so far then pay it and forget about it.

It is up to the passenger to ensure they have the right tickets for their journey so they really have a water tight case against you so if you want it to end now then do as above.

 

[furlong]

At which station did you change onto the Stansted Express? At which station did you begin your journey? How much credit did you have on your Oyster card at the time? What time of day was it? (I.e. what was the single fare at that time and had you enough credit on the card to pay it)

 

[Clip]

At which station did you change onto the Stansted Express? At which station did you begin your journey? How much credit did you have on your Oyster card at the time? What time of day was it? (I.e. what was the single fare at that time and had you enough credit on the card to pay it)

Im guessing it would've been Tottenham Hale and doesn't matter how much credit was on it Oyster cant be used on the Express and as they couldnt touch out then a maximum fare wouldve been applied.

 

[Nuta]

I begun my journey at Finsbury Park, I then changed at Tottenham Hale, I used my bank card twice (FP to TH, then TH to SA) which had enough money in the account to pay for both tickets. It was a normal fair (It was between 9 am and 5pm, I'm afraid I can't remember the exact time)

 

[furlong]

And after you joined the train, what was the next station at which it stopped?

 

[Nuta]

I think the train stopped at Harlow Town and Bishop's Stortford, but I do not recall if it stopped at both or either with 100% certainty.

 

[Clip]

I begun my journey at Finsbury Park, I then changed at Tottenham Hale, I used my bank card twice (FP to TH, then TH to SA) which had enough money in the account to pay for both tickets. It was a normal fair (It was between 9 am and 5pm, I'm afraid I can't remember the exact time)

You said Oyster

Hi forums,

I made the mistake that it seems quite a few others have made by tapping in with my oyster card as I switched platform. .

Though its a moot point as they cant be used to Stanstead either

Terms and conditions

• For the outbound journey, you must travel on the outbound travel date booked
• You can’t use Oyster or Contactless payment cards on Stansted Express services to/from Stansted Airport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did she definitely say you had to pay the PF now? As that is not required; you have to pay the Anytime (Day) Single fare for the journey you made, and can pay the other half (as a PF is twice the single fare provided that takes it over £20 which is the minimum) later, provided you willingly give a correct name and address.

Or could you have been confused under the stress you were undoubtably under?

 

[Nuta]

She told me that I had to pay the penalty fare now.

(As a side note I was under a lot of stress!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

She told me that I had to pay the penalty fare now.

(As a side note I was under a lot of stress!)

Interesting. It may be difficult to prove it, but PFs do not have to be paid on the spot, only the Anytime Single fare for the journey. I'll leave others to suggest if there is any way in which this fact could be of use to you, as I'm not totally sure.

 

[Nuta]

Thank you very much for sharing this information. Do you know where I would be able to reference the underlying source? (e.g. the public list of rules with the relevant information inside). All I can find is newspaper articles online referencing it, but not the actual source information.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I begun my journey at Finsbury Park, I then changed at Tottenham Hale, I used my bank card twice (FP to TH, then TH to SA) which had enough money in the account to pay for both tickets. It was a normal fair (It was between 9 am and 5pm, I'm afraid I can't remember the exact time)

Did you buy a ticket at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale to Stansted Airport using your bank card? Have you any evidence of having a ticket?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is the actual legislation:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/made

but appears not to reference the minimum payment amount, though it does reference part payment as a concept generally.

Page 6 of this does reference the minimum and confirm it is as I said.

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/sit...CZssUng/10292-ga_penalty_fares_dl_leaflet.pdf

 

[Nuta]

Did you buy a ticket at Finsbury Park or Tottenham Hale to Stansted Airport using your bank card? Have you any evidence of having a ticket?

No, I used the contactless payment at the gates of the station, which was the issue as I found out at Gatwick that this wasn't the proper method to by a ticket for the second leg of my journey, although the doors to the station opened when I used the contactless card.

 

[Nuta]

This is the actual legislation:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/made

but appears not to reference the minimum payment amount, though it does reference part payment as a concept generally.

Again, thank you very much, do you know what area I should look at with regards to this? I will read myself, but don't want to miss anything!

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you very much for sharing this information. Do you know where I would be able to reference the underlying source? (e.g. the public list of rules with the relevant information inside). All I can find is newspaper articles online referencing it, but not the actual source information.

In addition to the legislation already posted it’s stated on GA’s “penalty fare guide” leaflet available via their website here:

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/tickets-fares/penalty-fares

Page 5 of the leaflet refers:

What if l am unable to pay the full amount of the Penalty Fare on the spot?
If you do not have the full amount, then you will be allowed to make a part payment of at least the full Single fare; you then have 21 days, from the day after, to pay the remaining amount of the Penalty Fare. This can be done using the online facility on the Independent Revenue Collection and Support (IRCAS) website or telephone payments centre. Details of how to do this are on the Penalty Fare notice.
https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/sit...CZssUng/10292-ga_penalty_fares_dl_leaflet.pdf

 

[furlong]

doesn't matter how much credit was on it

It may go towards the question of proving intent not to pay: If, hypothetically, there was not enough credit left on the card to pay the complete fare for the whole journey, it's hard to argue you thought you could pay for the journey using the credit balance on the card.

 

[furlong]

Similarly, if the train stopped within the Oyster area, then an Oyster card with enough credit would be a valid ticket entitling boarding the train.

 

[Clip]

To be honest we need to find out what the letter states on it first as that would help a lot.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It may go towards the question of proving intent not to pay: If, hypothetically, there was not enough credit left on the card to pay the complete fare for the whole journey, it's hard to argue you thought you could pay for the journey using the credit balance on the card.

But I thought the OP stated she "did" have enough credit on her bank card and therefore, paid the complete fare?

 

[furlong]

But I thought the OP stated she "did" have enough credit on her bank card and therefore, paid the complete fare?

So please re-read the whole thread to try to reduce your confusion. (Look at the sequence in which the posts appear, what they are replies to, remember OP posts are initially invisible until they are moderated so can appear out-of-sequence, and see how the information provided changes.)
To be specific, initially it was Oyster, then it became 'bank card' - and the OP had not paid the complete fare.
So my basic questions were to rule out certain situations that could raise the bar for a prosecution. The bad news for the OP is that Harlow Town is outside the Oyster/contactless area so it probably falls into the normal category of either get a good solicitor and take your chance in court (and don't be surprised if you lose) or apologise and try to agree a quick settlement out-of-court (these typically end up around £100 but can be worth much more than that in terms of the additional stress you avoid). Unfair? Quite possibly, but that still seems to be the system at the moment.

 

[Hadders]

As I understand it the OP travelled from Finsbury Park to Stansted Airport Via Tottenham Hale and thought they could use Contactless throughout to pay for the journey.

Oyster/Contactless is not valid on the Stansted Express so the OP did not have a valid ticket between Tottenham Hale and the airport so a Penalty Fare is an appropriate course of action for a mistake like this.

For clarity Oyster/Contactless is to Gatwick Airport, but not to Stansted.

 

[Nuta]

Hi everyone, thank you for your help. The letter says that you have to write on the back of the letter with any information. If I write a printed letter and attach it with a stapler does anyone know if that is an accepted method of communication?

 

[Nuta]

When it comes to offering to settle out of court, is that something that you think should be raised in the letter? If so should I suggest an amount?

 

[Hadders]

Hi everyone, thank you for your help. The letter says that you have to write on the back of the letter with any information. If I write a printed letter and attach it with a stapler does anyone know if that is an accepted method of communication?

That will be absolutely fine.

 

[Nuta]

That will be absolutely fine.

Thank you, do you know if it is reasonable / sensible to offer to settle out of court in the letter?

 

[furlong]

If you browse some other threads in this forum you'll see common forms of words used and letters other people have sent in their situations, but after apologising and providing your mitigation and explaining why it won't happen again, basically you offer to pay the outstanding fare and any costs the company has incurred in dealing with your mistake. (And always keep these letters reasonably short and to the point - don't ramble with irrelevant excuses.)

 

[furlong]

If you use the right form of words like that there's no need for you to provide a figure - if they agree, they'll tell you what the fare was and what their costs have been.

 

[LeylandLen]

Simply write back to them explaining that you didnt know Oyster was valid on The Stanstead Express and that you are happy to pay any costs so far then pay it and forget about it.

It is up to the passenger to ensure they have the right tickets for their journey so they really have a water tight case against you so if you want it to end now then do as above.

I assume you mean Oyster was NOT valid on Stansted Express? ..can understand the other posts now ; they all make sense!
(Im a northerner , we dont have Oyster here and Ive never paid for a train fare with contacless but I use it other times)