Leicester Train Services

[paulypaul]

I'm always surprised that there aren't more direct services from Leicester to other major cities in the UK.

Given Leicester's size as the 14th largest urban area and 17th most populous city in the UK, I wonder why there arn't more direct services?

It seems that if you want to go further afield than London, Stansted or the East Midlands, then it involves a change somewhere. Im very suprised there are no through trains to the North-West or Scotland from Leicester.

 

[Class45]

Bring back the Thames-Clyde express

 

[paulypaul]

...the Palatine...Midland Pullman....

 

[howittpie]

There was direct to service during the West Coast upgrafe to Stockport and Manchester, project Rio I think it was called the times I used it there wasn't a very high demand of people boarding at Leicester for the North West

 

[tbtc]

It lost its Liverpool service when Central Trains split the Liverpool - Stansted route at New Street. Its also lost links to Coventry and Manchester (albeit a temporary "Rio" service).

Lack of links to places further north is an issue for Nottingham too - the MML does seem to be a poor relation in this respect.

Even though there is a direct Birmingham service, it's really not that great (a half hourly two/three coach 170) - that could be much busier than it actually is (though there's obviously no spare stock).

Maybe the "electric spine" will see Leicester connected to Oxford, Reading, "the south" in a few years time?

 

[paulypaul]

Im not sure what the passenger flows are like, but it seems to take an age to go anywhere up north apart from Sheffield, as it involves a change at either Derby, Peterborough or Birmingham. Nuneaton doesn't present many faster northern connection possibilites nowadays.

 

[class26]

I'm always surprised that there aren't more direct services from Leicester to other major cities in the UK.

Given Leicester's size as the 14th largest urban area and 17th most populous city in the UK, I wonder why there arn't more direct services?

It seems that if you want to go further afield than London, Stansted or the East Midlands, then it involves a change somewhere. Im very suprised there are no through trains to the North-West or Scotland from Leicester.

Have a look at the proposals when HS2 opens. Several XC services are re routed via Leicester. Consolation prize for no HS2 station ? It does mean a much extended journey times for through pax also but I guess these are early days and much can change before this actually happens.

 

[Gareth]

It takes about three hours or so from Liverpool, complete with two changes at Crewe/Stafford and Nuneaton. It can be done with one change via Birmingham but I think this actually takes longer than heading for Nuneaton.

I wonder if going via and changing at Sheffield would be better. All I know is that the Birmingham-Leicester trains are packed and can be quite uncomfortable.

 

[Martin_1981]

Given that it is part of the XC network, there should in my opinion be one direct service per day to the following cities:-

Edinburgh via York and Newcastle
Manchester
Cardiff
Plymouth via Bristol and Exeter
Bournemouth via Oxford, Reading and Southampton

The same should be the case for Nottingham too, although Notts does have a greater variety of services than Leicester i.e those to Cardiff, Manchester, Norwich, Liverpool and the one daily through service to Bournemouth via Derby.

 

[AlexS]

Leicester is one easy change from the whole North East each hour - the xx04 fast service to Sheffield allows a same platform circa 15 minute change at Derby or Chesterfield to services for Leeds, York, Newcastle and Scotland, and a 10-15 minute change at Sheffield for Manchester Piccadilly.

The south(west) is a bit trickier though, I admit, but that's inevitable with trains having to run via Birmingham. The service to St Pancras is quite fast though for changes via London.

Again, Coventry is a 10 minute change at Nuneaton on to the London Midland rocket off the xx49 Birmingham fast. The change for local stations on the West Coast has been messed up Northbound now LM have changed their timetable for the Crewe service, however.

It could be better, I'm sure, but it's not that bad - the time penalty for longer distance services running via Leicester rather than Tamworth means I think the connection at Derby is likely to remain for the forseeable.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, my view is that it's far better to concentrate on frequent, convenient and workable connections than to try and provide a single daily service between every possible combination of A and B.

 

[paulypaul]

I wasn't looking for every combination, but if you compare Leicester's limited range of direct destinations on EMT north-south and XC's east-west routes, with diverse direct services from other comparable urban areas like Bristol, Coventry, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Middlesborough and Southampton for example, it just strikes me we get less direct services than those communities do.

 

[MCR247]

Edinburgh?! You're comparing Leicester with Edinburgh? I am really ill and tired at theorems, so I do hope that I have read that wrong!

Tbh, it may seem like Leicester gets a poor service, but it isn't a personal attack on Leicester or anything! It's down to location. Some places are lucky, some places aren't. Simple as. So comparing place x with place y is pointless, as in most cases it's not down to TOCs going out of the way to serve place y, it's just that place y is in a convenient locatin

 

[Tomnick]

Apologies, my response was aimed more towards Martin1981's suggestion that there should be single daily services to all sorts of far flung shacks! I agree to a certain extent that there's perhaps some potential for improvements - Manchester would be my first suggestion, as it's currently a bit of a trek to get over that way.

 

[paulypaul]

Edinburgh?! You're comparing Leicester with Edinburgh? I am really ill and tired at theorems, so I do hope that I have read that wrong!

Tbh, it may seem like Leicester gets a poor service, but it isn't a personal attack on Leicester or anything! It's down to location. Some places are lucky, some places aren't. Simple as. So comparing place x with place y is pointless, as in most cases it's not down to TOCs going out of the way to serve place y, it's just that place y is in a convenient locatin

Yes, Edinburgh has a slighty smaller population than Leicester.

Is there any passenger traffic flow forcasting done?

 

[MCW]

Leicester has got enough selection to help get you somewhere it does mean changing etc. If you think the situation is that bad blame beaching as he is the twit who closed the great central down and the great northern. Yes there could be more flows etc but this would take time and money as it stands we do have some great timetables.

 

[Mr Spock]

Just another thread whereby someone wants to go everywhere from there local station.

A great many of us want that but have to use whats available, my local station is Rugby where the basic daily services go to London, Birmingham and Crewe so if I want to go to Scotland, West Country, South Coast, York, Leeds, Nottingham, etc. I will have to change somewhere.

Get used to whats available and make the most of it because it is unlikely to change.

 

[paulypaul]

Just another thread whereby someone wants to go everywhere from there local station.

A great many of us want that but have to use whats available, my local station is Rugby where the basic daily services go to London, Birmingham and Crewe so if I want to go to Scotland, West Country, South Coast, York, Leeds, Nottingham, etc. I will have to change somewhere.

Get used to whats available and make the most of it because it is unlikely to change.

The premise of my arguement was based on the size of the population of Leicester and its lack of direct transport links in comparason to other large conurbations in the UK and their services.

Leicester is the 14th largest conurbation in the UK, Rugby is the 114th, so it doesn't surprise me that you have to change from Rugby.

 

[Mr Spock]

The size of a place has nothing to do with it, you are just another person that wants a direct service to all points from a station you use regardless of how well they will be used.

Just another pointless exercise.

 

[AlexS]

There's no requirement for a direct transport link. The fact remains that Leicester is linked to Birmingham by a comparatively slow secondary line and the fairly busy Midland Main Line to Derby to the north east.

It takes far longer for services to reach Leicester than the benefit derived by the diversion.

It's a fact that the connections are easy enough as it is, without putting a large amount of extra time in the journey and avoiding serving other places as a result.

 

[paulypaul]

So the electrification of the Midland Mainline won't bring direct services to other large cities?

 

[tbtc]

So the electrification of the Midland Mainline won't bring direct services to other large cities?

Based on what has been promised, the electrification will only go as far as Nottingham and as far as Sheffield (not the Erewash valley route through Alfreton, not the lines from Sheffield towards Doncaster and York).

But with an electrified route from Bedford to Bletchley and Oxford (and beyond) and some "obvious" electrification schemes to consider for CP6, there's potential for Leicester to have a more interesting set of destinations in a few years time.

Plus there's the Scarborough service that nobody's mentioned.

 

[JamesRowden]

So the electrification of the Midland Mainline won't bring direct services to other large cities?

As I have said in other threads, following CP5 electrification, rerouting the Southampton/Reading-Birmingham-Newcastle service north of Birmingham to Liverpool or Glasgow would make both of the 2tph Crosscountry services between Reading and Birmingham completely under the wires and so suitable for electric stock so that other Voyager operated services can be strengthened. If Sheffield to Leeds or Doncaster was electrified early in CP6 an electric Crosscountry service could run from Reading or Southampton via East West Rail (Oxford - Bedford) up the Midland Mainline and onto the East Coast Mainline and terminate at York, Newcastle or Edinburgh. This would replace part of the Southampton/Reading to Newcastle service and another service could run from Birmingham to Derby (or beyond) (In additoinal to the present Plymouth/Penzance-Scotland service) to replace that part of the journey. Crosscountry services to Reading could also be extended to Heathrow to form part of the planned 4tph between Reading and Heathrow.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Plus there's the Scarborough service that nobody's mentioned.

A Class 158 running from Leicester to Scarborough could probably manage that quite amiably if the Mainline side went all electric.

 

[ainsworth74]

A Class 158 running from Leicester to Scarborough could probably manage that quite amiably if the Mainline side went all electric.

It would need to be a four-car unit minimum as during the summer demand seems very high on that service (a five-car 222 was full and standing between Scarborough and York). I also suspect it would increase journey times as 158s are lower speed and slower accelerators than 222s.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Edinburgh?! You're comparing Leicester with Edinburgh? I am really ill and tired at theorems, so I do hope that I have read that wrong!

Yes, Edinburgh has a slighty smaller population than Leicester.

There is a bit more to it than that though, isn't there? Edinburgh is one of the world's truly great cities, it's the capital of Scotland, a world heritage centre and home to the largest arts festival on the planet. It is a major, major destination for tourism (especially during the festival) and the number of entries and exits at Waverley station clearly justify the service the station gets.

Population of a city only gives information about the number of potential customers who might use the station to leave the city, it doesn't tell us anything about the number of people who might want to arrive there from elsewhere. I'm sure Leicester is a lovely place, but it doesn't attract hordes of people there on business or pleasure in anywhere near the same way as Edinburgh does.

 

[paulypaul]

There is a bit more to it than that though, isn't there? Edinburgh is one of the world's truly great cities, it's the capital of Scotland, a world heritage centre and home to the largest arts festival on the planet. It is a major, major destination for tourism (especially during the festival) and the number of entries and exits at Waverley station clearly justify the service the station gets.

Population of a city only gives information about the number of potential customers who might use the station to leave the city, it doesn't tell us anything about the number of people who might want to arrive there from elsewhere. I'm sure Leicester is a lovely place, but it doesn't attract hordes of people there on business or pleasure in anywhere near the same way as Edinburgh does.

I was thinking more about people leaving the city than arriving

Perhaps Edinburgh wasn't the most ideal comparator given it's capital city status, Reading, Portsmouth, Southampton, Middlesborough, Coventry are probably better examples of equally or less populous cities with better direct services.

Anyway, I'm sure traffic flows will increase more once Richard III is laid to rest in Leicester.

 

[43074]

I'm sure Leicester is a lovely place

Are you sure??

Anyway, back on topic: I feel that Leicester's services are fine. It is possible to get to many places with just one change of train, although there has been deterioration in the number of destinations it is possible to get to with one change of train (notable losses include Norwich and Liverpool)
If we were talking improvements, I would suggest the following:

1. A link to Norwich from Birmingham, for which there is a market. XC services could split and join at Ely to maintain Cambridge's hourly service.
2. Services direct to York and the North East - perhaps extra Cross Country services from Birmingham which would call at Nuneaton, Leicester, East Midlands Parkway, Sheffield, Doncaster & York, whilst retaining the direct services via Derby

Faster services between Leicester and Birmingham would be welcome though; it might even lure some from the comfort of their BMWs onto the shamefully underused First Class on the half hourly Cross Country Turbostars.

 

[fsmr]

Are you sure??

It is when the Foxes win 3 nill at home like last night


I agree, i think Leicester is served very well considering.
You will always have somewhere that you have to change to get to.

Living in Oakham mid way. we get a choice of Leicester or Peterborough for points North or South
The Birmingham / Stansted service being an excellent connection for Leicester

Of course up to the 50s and 60s, there were no less than 4 stations in Leicester itself, All on the mainlines , with the main midland station and the smaller Humberstone rd, only 1/2 mile apart up the Midland mianline,
Then the GCR giving access to Bucks and West London and Oxford via Banbury and the southern network and another route into Manchester via Woodhead,
And the Great Northern Belgrave rd terminus opening up direct trains to Skegness and the ECML

there was also fifth, West Bridge station the terminus of the Leicester Swannington opened in 1832 and closed to pax in the 1920's was also a product of the Stephensons and one of the pioneering lines in the UK with access eventually to Burton on Trent. Also the railway that spawned the of the cuff design and fitment of the steam whistle by Mr Stephenson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester_and_Swannington_Railway

 

[Bald Rick]

Looking at it another way, how many times have you heard....

"where shall we go for a city break this weekend? I know, Leicester!"