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Leeds pick up point

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harz99

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Then continue using your car and deal with the consequences.

Consequences? Is that not what you are encouraging in post 27; driving from Leeds to Wakefield/Doncaster/wherever is not going to change whatever consequences you are hinting at.

In the case of Wakefield Westgate the set down/pick up is as bad as Leeds, and in the case of Kirkgate it is non existent with the ongoing station and surrounds regeneration.
 
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47802

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I agree Leeds is a shambles, The bus I catch out of Leeds frequently gets delayed by, I do notice a lot of Private Hire cars dropping people off there, maybe they should use the front area instead.
 
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Are you suggesting the person doing the picking up should instead park their car at Leeds station, and go on the train to meet someone at another station, only to go back to Leeds and go in the car?

Just find a mutually convenient point to meet for both the person arriving by car and the person arriving by train. A point other than Leeds station. Preferably a station with a car park and uncongested roads.

For instance, sometimes I go from London to see relatives who live in the Keighley area. Normally, I get the train from London KX to Leeds, and change to an onward Airedale local train and they meet me at Steeton & Silsden.

On Sunday evenings, when the service from Steeton & Silsden back to Leeds is less frequent, the relatives drop me off at Shipley. At Shipley, I take the more frequent train service to Leeds and change for an onward service to London.
 

Tetchytyke

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And people who live in Airedale will usually do just that. I only get a lift from Bradford when my train at Leeds is earlier/later than the first/last connecting service. The time and cost of getting into Leeds from somewhere like Shipley isn't worth the hassle.

But most of West Yorkshire doesn't have a good train service. Some large towns, like Otley, Heckmondwike or Wetherby, have no train service at all. Some large towns have such an infrequent service as to be useless (e.g. Pontefract, Morley, Batley). And there is the convenience aspect: who in their right mind would wait on Leeds station for 45 minutes for a train to Headingley or Cross Gates when they can get a lift?

Leeds is the second largest city in the whole country, with a population of over 750,000. It is clear that the station parking and waiting facilities are not suitable for a city of this size, and nor are onward transport options.
 
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who in their right mind would wait on Leeds station for 45 minutes for a train to Headingley or Cross Gates when they can get a lift?.

Somebody who thinks there is enough motor traffic circulating around Leeds station. And would prefer to wait for a train, rather than ask for a lift and add another car journey to the central Leeds area.
 
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Leeds does not have ... a comprehensive bus network...it is different in North London...

That's because the Conservatives deregulated and privatised buses across most of the UK in 1985. They were not so stupid as to do the same thing in London. Thankfully buses in London are still managed and financed by the State.
 

Deerfold

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There have been several opportunities to relocate closer to the railway station and commercial centre in recent years but the PTE haven't been interested. Similar opportunities have been missed to move the bus stations at Halifax and Keighley close to the railway stations, again preferring to spend money on rebuilding.

Surely this is explained by your previous point:

Most bus passengers of course aren't travelling to use trains but to go to work, shop, study etc. elsewhere in the city centre and the buses must go where the passengers want.

I live near Keighley. Every week I travel to Keighley with a suitcase and backpack - and sometimes another bag. I change at Leeds and Keighley stations and then get a bus.

It's irritating having to cross Keighley with that lot but I understand why the bus station is where it is - you only have to look at where most people go after getting off the bus in Keighley - it's not to the station but to the shops surrounding the bus station.

What is annoying for the less mobile is connecting in an evening or on a Sunday.

During the middle of a weekday there are 12 buses an hour from the bus stop outside the station to the bus station. Evenings and Sundays there's just 3 and 2 of those are only a minute or so apart.
 

HowardGWR

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Surely this is explained by your previous point:



I live near Keighley. Every week I travel to Keighley with a suitcase and backpack - and sometimes another bag. I change at Leeds and Keighley stations and then get a bus.

It's irritating having to cross Keighley with that lot but I understand why the bus station is where it is - you only have to look at where most people go after getting off the bus in Keighley - it's not to the station but to the shops surrounding the bus station.

What is annoying for the less mobile is connecting in an evening or on a Sunday.

During the middle of a weekday there are 12 buses an hour from the bus stop outside the station to the bus station. Evenings and Sundays there's just 3 and 2 of those are only a minute or so apart.

It seems to me that both sides of this thread have something going for them (thanks to responders to my bus queries). I am astonished that the transport authority has performed so appallingly. We in the SW have been told such an organisation would solve all our problems!
 

Deerfold

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It seems to me that both sides of this thread have something going for them (thanks to responders to my bus queries). I am astonished that the transport authority has performed so appallingly. We in the SW have been told such an organisation would solve all our problems!

The bus station at Keighley is a massive improvement on the old one as is the one in Leeds.

Moving them would require a large expensive site to be found - and potentially inconvenience more people than are helped.

In Leeds few of the local services use the bus station anyway -

http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFiles/WYMetro/Content/BusTravel/maps_and_guides/Leeds_WTCYB.pdf
 

Grumpy

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Surely this is explained by your previous point:



I live near Keighley. Every week I travel to Keighley with a suitcase and backpack - and sometimes another bag. I change at Leeds and Keighley stations and then get a bus.

It's irritating having to cross Keighley with that lot but I understand why the bus station is where it is - you only have to look at where most people go after getting off the bus in Keighley - it's not to the station but to the shops surrounding the bus station.

What is annoying for the less mobile is connecting in an evening or on a Sunday.

During the middle of a weekday there are 12 buses an hour from the bus stop outside the station to the bus station. Evenings and Sundays there's just 3 and 2 of those are only a minute or so apart.

I agree with your comments re the Leeds and Keighley bus stations being big improvements. Light bright, good passenger information, clean etc.
Also Keighley is well situated for shoppers going to the Airedale Centre, Markets etc.

Where I think we might disagree is on the function of a bus station. It seems to me to be where passengers get on and off the bus plus "other stuff". The latter includes such as somewhere to park up the bus between duties or when the driver is taking his break. It's somewhere for the driver to have a break, possibly book on/off/cash up etc. It's also a good place for passengers to interchange routes. All this "other stuff" doesn't need to take place next to the shopping centre, what is important is the passengers can get on and off the bus near to the shopping centre.

What I believe should have happened in Keighley is that the bus station should have been relocated to what is now basically the bottom of Sainsbury's car park, opposite the railway station, with a pedestrian access to the railway engineered in under the road bridge. Buses would simply be routed down Cavendish st., effectively passing the existing bus station with stops and decent passenger shelters provided at the top of Cavendish St. I have over simplified but I think you will get the idea. Apart from railway interchange this location would have been good for the college and shoppers at Sainsburys, Asda , Aldi etc.

I accept that they've blown the money tarting up the existing bus station and it's unlikely a case for relocation could be made now, but perhaps in a few years time when it needs doing again..............
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That's because the Conservatives deregulated and privatised buses across most of the UK in 1985. They were not so stupid as to do the same thing in London. Thankfully buses in London are still managed and financed by the State.

Quite possibly. However if the Government gave as much money for transport investment per head to the English Regions as it does to London then perhaps they could afford a similar level of service. I believe London gets approximately four times more per head than West Yorkshire.
 

HowardGWR

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Yes, the point is about the buses stopping next to the stations. Where the driver takes his bus (if it is terminating) for his fag is neither here nor there.

The railway stations have full facilities for changing pax whereas in my experience bus stations are always a grade down market (even), nasty smelly places.

I have never travelled anywhere in Europe where the buses were not fully integrated with the railway station. Thus my surprise at the Leeds (and others) situation.
 
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Deerfold

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Yes, the point is about the buses stopping next to the stations. Where the driver takes his bus (if it is terminating) for his fag is neither here nor there.

The railway stations have full facilities for changing pax whereas in my experience bus stations are always a grade down market (even), nasty smelly places.

I have never travelled anywhere in Europe where the buses were not fully integrated with the railway station. Thus my surprise at the Leeds (and others) situation.

In Keighley the bus station is clean, warm and has visible staff far later than the rail station.

I've been to plenty of places in Italy where there has been a considerable distance between the station and the nearest bus stops.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where I think we might disagree is on the function of a bus station. It seems to me to be where passengers get on and off the bus plus "other stuff". The latter includes such as somewhere to park up the bus between duties or when the driver is taking his break. It's somewhere for the driver to have a break, possibly book on/off/cash up etc. It's also a good place for passengers to interchange routes. All this "other stuff" doesn't need to take place next to the shopping centre, what is important is the passengers can get on and off the bus near to the shopping centre.

What I believe should have happened in Keighley is that the bus station should have been relocated to what is now basically the bottom of Sainsbury's car park, opposite the railway station, with a pedestrian access to the railway engineered in under the road bridge. Buses would simply be routed down Cavendish st., effectively passing the existing bus station with stops and decent passenger shelters provided at the top of Cavendish St. I have over simplified but I think you will get the idea. Apart from railway interchange this location would have been good for the college and shoppers at Sainsburys, Asda , Aldi etc.

I accept that they've blown the money tarting up the existing bus station and it's unlikely a case for relocation could be made now, but perhaps in a few years time when it needs doing again..............
.
The downside with that is you're then sending all the buses along the most contested Street in Keighley. If my local services were sent down thereyou'd need at least one, possibly two extra buses to run the service.
 

Deerfold

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It's just a shame that they closed Vicar Lane and kept City bus station, though.

It wouldn't have been that much nearer the rail station though.

Might have been more attractive for some of the cross-city services to use.

Though I'm not sure if there would have been enough room.
 

bewildered

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I have to walk past this section every day if the week and it just gets worse. It's annoying on a Friday evening when waiting for the bus home on Aire Street and it's held up in site of the stop for 20 minutes because of cars blocking the junction.

As for a solution I've of then wondered if the tunnel under the station towards granary wharf could be used? If it was a one way system entering from Neville Street from the City Loop. Patrons would then be able to enter the station at the new entrance there. Exiting traffic could then either be directed back around the rear of the Hilton or round onto Water Lane.

Also better use of other locations should maybe be advertised. I see so many cars come from city square and turn left into the station having passed a perfect set down pick up point in from of The Queens Hotel. There's also an area that could be used for set down on Bishopgate
 

34D

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Just out of interest, it was quoted that the bus station is a long way from Leeds station, but I notice a lot of bus stops near the latter. How many out of town services (what percentage roughly) actually go past the station? I would imagine that most from the west and north west would, but it looks a bit more dodgy from the south east.

I would say that approx 30% of Leeds city centre bus services stop at the railway station or immediately beside (ie Boar Lane, the dark arches, city square/bottom of Park Row, Infirmary St, Wellington St or Aire St.

Those that don't are on:

-Vicar Lane or lower/new Briggate (8 mins walk from the station)
-Headrow/Westgate (5 mins walk)
-City Bus Station (12-15 mins walk) then going either east along York Road, or south over Crown Point Bridge.

The latter three places are easily reachable on the 50p (formerly free) City Bus.

Ish.
 

D6975

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Leeds is going to get a second entrance on the south side, connected to the main footbridge.
I'm not too familiar with what's down below on that side, would moving the pickup/dropoff to that side be practical?
 

YorkshireBear

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Leeds is going to get a second entrance on the south side, connected to the main footbridge.
I'm not too familiar with what's down below on that side, would moving the pickup/dropoff to that side be practical?

That side is planned to be a pedestrian only entrance due to the roads around there not being capable of handling extra traffic.
 

HowardGWR

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I would say that approx 30% of Leeds city centre bus services stop at the railway station or immediately beside (ie Boar Lane, the dark arches, city square/bottom of Park Row, Infirmary St, Wellington St or Aire St.

Those that don't are on:

-Vicar Lane or lower/new Briggate (8 mins walk from the station)
-Headrow/Westgate (5 mins walk)
-City Bus Station (12-15 mins walk) then going either east along York Road, or south over Crown Point Bridge.

The latter three places are easily reachable on the 50p (formerly free) City Bus.

Ish.

Thanks. I notice the city bus does not run on Sundays and only until 1930 on other days. That seems a bit odd. Is Leeds so dead on a Sunday and evenings?
 

Deerfold

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Thanks. I notice the city bus does not run on Sundays and only until 1930 on other days. That seems a bit odd. Is Leeds so dead on a Sunday and evenings?

Despite Leeds perking up in recent years buses have reduced considerably on evenings and Sundays. There's a handful of bus services which have gone from 2bph to 3bph for a few hours on a Sunday but far more that have decreased frequency or gone entirely.
 

Aictos

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I've had to use it to be picked up and dropped off by friends before and it really is appalling that a Network Rail managed station should have such poor facilitates especially considering how busy Leeds is.

Network Rail as SFO ought to be ashamed of themselves as should the TOCs who serve Leeds and the governing council as well as they're all equally guilty.
 

Deerfold

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I've had to use it to be picked up and dropped off by friends before and it really is appalling that a Network Rail managed station should have such poor facilitates especially considering how busy Leeds is.

Network Rail as SFO ought to be ashamed of themselves as should the TOCs who serve Leeds and the governing council as well as they're all equally guilty.

What would you expect the TOCs to do at a station they don't manage?

I'm not sure what the governing council is (or SFO either)? Could you clarify?
 

Oswyntail

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What would you expect the TOCs to do at a station they don't manage?....
Surely they have some input into what NR does or provides at stations (if not, why not?). And the local council should be ensuring some sort of reasoned transport management policy.
 

34D

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Thanks. I notice the city bus does not run on Sundays and only until 1930 on other days. That seems a bit odd. Is Leeds so dead on a Sunday and evenings?

No not really. The town centre is busy on Sundays, but with free parking, everyone just drives in.

The pruning of Sunday bus services are a disgrace.

My own local bus route is every 8 mins mon-sat and every 30 on Sundays - ridiculous.
 

Grumpy

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No not really. The town centre is busy on Sundays, but with free parking, everyone just drives in.

The pruning of Sunday bus services are a disgrace.

My own local bus route is every 8 mins mon-sat and every 30 on Sundays - ridiculous.

It's not free parking on Sundays, nor in the evenings.
 
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Yes since the 18th Nov free parking in Leeds on Sunday has gone by the bye, although £2 is still pretty reasonable
 
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