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Leeds Bradford Airport rail link

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Bayum

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An engineer friend of mine was speaking to me today about their projects at the moment and mentioned that as well as bidding for money to build another road to the airport, they were modelling and in the process of putting together a bid for a rail line to the airport.

Just wondering if anyone on here had heard of any further plans on this? She wouldn't divulge anymore; I wasn't even aware of there being any plans at present anyway!
 
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Oscar

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Presumably the line to Leeds Bradford Airport would be a spur in a tunnel off the Leeds - Harrogate line. The line would presumably climb upwards towards the airport but the station would still be deep underground.
 

bluenoxid

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An engineer friend of mine was speaking to me today about their projects at the moment and mentioned that as well as bidding for money to build another road to the airport, they were modelling and in the process of putting together a bid for a rail line to the airport.

Just wondering if anyone on here had heard of any further plans on this? She wouldn't divulge anymore; I wasn't even aware of there being any plans at present anyway!

I hope this helps

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....to-leeds-bradford-airport-on-agenda-1-6550183
 

Ploughman

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The idea of a link has been floating around for a while now.
First I had any knowledge of was about 1993 as part of the Leeds North West Electrification.
A proposal was made to reuse part of the the old Rawdon branch running from just the Leeds side of Greenbottom Tunnel near Guiseley towards Yeadon.
Problem with this location was that a reversal would be needed to access the branch.

We had an involvement because we were using the old formation as an access point for trackwork on the Ilkley line and no work was to be done that blocked this proposal.
The OHL Department might not have got this message as they built a substation alongside the trackbed.

Horsforth station is another proposal, using the recently installed turnback siding as the link to the network.

Another possibility was to use the former junction site at Arthington (Harrogate end of Bramhope tunnel) on the Harrogate line as a connection point.
This had the advantage of being able to have a triangular layout if a link to York via Harrogate was wanted as well as a link to Leeds.
 

snowball

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Not long ago it was being talked of as light rail/tram/tram-train. I think there's a thread on here.
 

WatcherZero

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It was one of the few specifically named projects in the One North proposal as increased local connectivity, looked like Leeds/Bradford were pushing it hard amongst other northern leaders.
 

7griffinjack

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Funnily enough, there was some talk on the local news recently, that Leeds / Bradford airport might possibly re-locate to a new site just off the M1 / M621 / M62 in the area around Stourton. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....stories/calls-for-new-leeds-airport-1-6404971

I've always thought that that's the best location for a proper airport serving Yorkshire. Being right near the M62/M1/A1(M) and exisitng rail lines/HS2 would make it far more accessible. The current airport is an absolute pain to reach using the back roads of Leeds as many people will know. Can't see it ever happening though...
 

Bayum

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Funnily enough, there was some talk on the local news recently, that Leeds / Bradford airport might possibly re-locate to a new site just off the M1 / M621 / M62 in the area around Stourton. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....stories/calls-for-new-leeds-airport-1-6404971

The same engineer mentioned something similar, but had she had her way, it would have been further south towards Wakefield. Unfortunately the airspace around that area is already too congested apparently.
 

HowardGWR

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I've always thought that that's the best location for a proper airport serving Yorkshire. Being right near the M62/M1/A1(M) and exisitng rail lines/HS2 would make it far more accessible. The current airport is an absolute pain to reach using the back roads of Leeds as many people will know. Can't see it ever happening though...

Surely the more difficult it is to reach the airport by car, then how much more competitive will the rail link be, when built. We want to reduce use of car do we not? :)
 

IanD

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I've always thought that that's the best location for a proper airport serving Yorkshire. Being right near the M62/M1/A1(M) and exisitng rail lines/HS2 would make it far more accessible. The current airport is an absolute pain to reach using the back roads of Leeds as many people will know. Can't see it ever happening though...

Very easy to get to from my parents' house in North Bradford. About a 10 minute drive. Yorkshire does not comprise of just Leeds. There's a clue in the name Leeds-Bradford airport - it serves two cities but what the heck let's move it away from one of them. Personally I'd like to see the rail link to Bradford.

If the 'new' A1/M1 link road (ie the most northerly bit of the M1) had gone to the West rather than the East of Leeds as Bradford council (and a lot of the other West Yorkshire towns West of Leeds) had campaigned for then the current site would be ideal. But then, as always, Leeds got their way and the M1 extension we see today was built.
 

7griffinjack

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Very easy to get to from my parents' house in North Bradford. About a 10 minute drive. Yorkshire does not comprise of just Leeds. There's a clue in the name Leeds-Bradford airport - it serves two cities but what the heck let's move it away from one of them. Personally I'd like to see the rail link to Bradford.

If the 'new' A1/M1 link road (ie the most northerly bit of the M1) had gone to the West rather than the East of Leeds as Bradford council (and a lot of the other West Yorkshire towns West of Leeds) had campaigned for then the current site would be ideal. But then, as always, Leeds got their way and the M1 extension we see today was built.

But not everybody who uses the airport lives in North Bradford do they? And yes, you're right. Yorkshire does not comprise of just Leeds - it also comprises of York, Hull, Sheffield etc. The A1(M)/M62 area is central for Yorkshire which the airport serves. This location is still easily accessible from Bradofrd via the M62 and rail links.

Indeed, if the M1 had gone west it would of been useful for the current airport but at the end of the day it didn't did it? I was just throwing out an idea that is most likely not going to happen. Just thought it would be better to build a world class facility from scratch with transport links at its forefront instead of patch and mending an existing facility. :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Surely the more difficult it is to reach the airport by car, then how much more competitive will the rail link be, when built. We want to reduce use of car do we not? :)

Public transport is not ideal for everybody though, especially those that live in small isolated localities. Yes, public transport is a priority and I am a great advocate of it but car accessibility is important too. :)
 

deltic08

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The ideal site is former RAF Church Fenton recently closed by the MOD and will soon be up for sale. The terminal building could be part of an upgraded station on the Leeds-York line, but no, expansion of LBA is preferred, the most unsuitable site of any UK airport. Due to its altitude, 680 feet above see level, it experiences the worst weather of any airport.
 

bangor-toad

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Hi there,
I'm not an expert on the area but I've flown into Leeds/Bradford a few times.

It always seemed odd to me that anything other than a simple alignment from the Leeds-Harrogate line was being considered.
I'd guess that it could diverge from the existing line just south of the tunnel (about 1km north of Horsforth station). It'd then gently climb up as it curved towards the west and reach the airport at the north-east corner. It could then run along the airport perimeter - taking a bit a land from the existing carparks. The station would be just to the north east of the airport terminal, I think this is the current short stay car-park.

The civils for this would be relatively straightforward and wouldn't impact on many houses or businesses. The station could be carefully designed to permit expansion and/or further tracks heading west should that ever be wanted.

It's a simple solution that'd only provide an airport - Leeds shuttle (unless through running was ever needed after Leeds). But is there a business case for anything more complex?

Cheers,
Mr Toad
 

Bantamzen

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But not everybody who uses the airport lives in North Bradford do they? And yes, you're right. Yorkshire does not comprise of just Leeds - it also comprises of York, Hull, Sheffield etc. The A1(M)/M62 area is central for Yorkshire which the airport serves. This location is still easily accessible from Bradofrd via the M62 and rail links.

Indeed, if the M1 had gone west it would of been useful for the current airport but at the end of the day it didn't did it? I was just throwing out an idea that is most likely not going to happen. Just thought it would be better to build a world class facility from scratch with transport links at its forefront instead of patch and mending an existing facility. :)

But Hull has its own, albeit lightly used airport as does South Yorkshire. So moving LBA to a new location to serve these areas isn't as compelling as it might seem. And moving towards the motorway links might have its merits, but it also has its pitfalls. Moving it to Stourton as suggested earlier would be difficult, as a decent sized runway would be hard to fit in to the area & of course depending on the alignment of the runway, might mean that flights would have to fly even lower across central Leeds than they currently do. There would be a huge amount of objections from residents. And building it further to the east along the M62 or M1/A1 link would provide the space & the distance from built up areas, but would add additional strain on the road network. The junctions around Leeds can easily clog up without the help from additional airport-bound traffic. And with better motorway links, more people will drive there regardless of any rail links provided. Plus you would be building in an area that suffers badly with drainage problems which would make building and operating such a site tricky.

Then of course there's the cost. I imagine that a brand new build would cost way in excess of a rail link to LBA's current position, and as I've said above might actually still add to the region's congestion issues. I'm the first to admit that LBA's position isn't the best (and landing there can be, well a bit hairy to say the least), but it's there & it would be far more beneficial to the area to improve it's links to the rest of the area rather than packing it off to the middle of nowhere.
 

IanD

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But not everybody who uses the airport lives in North Bradford do they? And yes, you're right. Yorkshire does not comprise of just Leeds - it also comprises of York, Hull, Sheffield etc.

Nor does everyone live in East Yorkshire. Hull and Sheffield already have their own local airports so why should an existing facility be moved to benefit residents of those places to the detriment of the areas that are currently served. Might as well close the airport completely and send everyone to Manchester - a nice easy run along the motorway.

Sticking an airport next to a motorway is not an instant solution to accessibility. Look at my 'local' airport, Luton, bang next to the M1 and ostensibly only 20 minutes drive from my front door along a 3 lane straightish super highway - should be no winding back lanes to contend with. But the M1 in this area being what it is you still have to make a huge allowance for delays if driving and often end up on winding back lanes anyway.
 

47802

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Leeds/Bradford is certainly on the wrong side of town in many respects and especially from a decent road link viewpoint.

A rail link to Leeds would certainly improve things, it could also be potentially used as a park and ride to Leeds from such as Yeadon and Otley.
 

Oswyntail

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.... the most unsuitable site of any UK airport. Due to its altitude, 680 feet above see level, it experiences the worst weather of any airport.
According to local "word", the siting of LBA, and the fairly nearby Menwith Hill RAF base, was no coincidence. The area, particularly the east end of Ilkley Moor, is well known for a high incidence of visits from aliens, and corresponding sightings. The authorities, not wishing the locals to be alarmed, constructed an inter-stellar watching station at Menwith, which they claimed was a much less sinister cold-war listening post. They then chose the totally unsuitable Yeadon Aerodrome for expansion into LBA so as to provide an excuse for all the lights being seen in the skies.
I have had this version from several independent sources, so it must be true
(and Class 60s have travelled at speeds in excess of 90 mph)
 

47802

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According to local "word", the siting of LBA, and the fairly nearby Menwith Hill RAF base, was no coincidence. The area, particularly the east end of Ilkley Moor, is well known for a high incidence of visits from aliens, and corresponding sightings. The authorities, not wishing the locals to be alarmed, constructed an inter-stellar watching station at Menwith, which they claimed was a much less sinister cold-war listening post. They then chose the totally unsuitable Yeadon Aerodrome for expansion into LBA so as to provide an excuse for all the lights being seen in the skies.
I have had this version from several independent sources, so it must be true
(and Class 60s have travelled at speeds in excess of 90 mph)

Really that's a new one on me, given the Aerodrome was their before Menwith Hill, If Leeds/Bradford wanted an Airport for a reasonable price I doubt it was ever likely to be anywhere else.

I remember going there as a kid and I think the terminal building was just a wooden shed, I think the previous terminal building had burned down and they were in the process of building the present one.
 

LWB

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Hi there,
I'm not an expert on the area but I've flown into Leeds/Bradford a few times.

It always seemed odd to me that anything other than a simple alignment from the Leeds-Harrogate line was being considered.
I'd guess that it could diverge from the existing line just south of the tunnel (about 1km north of Horsforth station). It'd then gently climb up as it curved towards the west and reach the airport at the north-east corner. It could then run along the airport perimeter - taking a bit a land from the existing carparks. The station would be just to the north east of the airport terminal, I think this is the current short stay car-park.

The civils for this would be relatively straightforward and wouldn't impact on many houses or businesses. The station could be carefully designed to permit expansion and/or further tracks heading west should that ever be wanted.

It's a simple solution that'd only provide an airport - Leeds shuttle (unless through running was ever needed after Leeds). But is there a business case for anything more complex?

Cheers,
Mr Toad

This has been discussed before (somewhere). A quick look at Google map or Earth makes this a 64m climb in 2000m approx. This works out at 1 in 30 or 3.3%. Not really gentle, perhaps requiring underground work?
 

7griffinjack

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But Hull has its own, albeit lightly used airport as does South Yorkshire. So moving LBA to a new location to serve these areas isn't as compelling as it might seem. And moving towards the motorway links might have its merits, but it also has its pitfalls. Moving it to Stourton as suggested earlier would be difficult, as a decent sized runway would be hard to fit in to the area & of course depending on the alignment of the runway, might mean that flights would have to fly even lower across central Leeds than they currently do. There would be a huge amount of objections from residents. And building it further to the east along the M62 or M1/A1 link would provide the space & the distance from built up areas, but would add additional strain on the road network. The junctions around Leeds can easily clog up without the help from additional airport-bound traffic. And with better motorway links, more people will drive there regardless of any rail links provided. Plus you would be building in an area that suffers badly with drainage problems which would make building and operating such a site tricky.

Then of course there's the cost. I imagine that a brand new build would cost way in excess of a rail link to LBA's current position, and as I've said above might actually still add to the region's congestion issues. I'm the first to admit that LBA's position isn't the best (and landing there can be, well a bit hairy to say the least), but it's there & it would be far more beneficial to the area to improve it's links to the rest of the area rather than packing it off to the middle of nowhere.


I wouldn't say its the middle of nowhere. It's central to the a Yorkshire and Humber region. Obviously pretty much any location is going to have its pitfalls as well as benefits but in my opinion, an airport that can be easily accessed via the motorway network instead of single carriageway roads through a city's suburbs is much better. Along with the rail links - the lines in this area are better to provide connections to the regions' other town and cities instead of a connection to a single Leeds commuter line.

Providing an airport in this area with world class transport options would likely mean that the majority of journeys to the airport are possible using public transport. This would reduce the strain on the motorways - but they are still vital for the airports accessibility. But obviously changes to the local road infrastructure would be needed anyway. I'm not saying there isn't going to be any increased because of course there is.

These are just ideas and unlikely to come to fruition but in my opinion this area is best placed to serve the Yorkshire region than LBA currently does - even with an added rail link.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nor does everyone live in East Yorkshire. Hull and Sheffield already have their own local airports so why should an existing facility be moved to benefit residents of those places to the detriment of the areas that are currently served. Might as well close the airport completely and send everyone to Manchester - a nice easy run along the motorway.

Sticking an airport next to a motorway is not an instant solution to accessibility. Look at my 'local' airport, Luton, bang next to the M1 and ostensibly only 20 minutes drive from my front door along a 3 lane straightish super highway - should be no winding back lanes to contend with. But the M1 in this area being what it is you still have to make a huge allowance for delays if driving and often end up on winding back lanes anyway.


To provide the most efficient operation it would be best if Humberside/Doncaster airports closed if a new airport were to be built in this location. This airport could serve the Yorkshire and Humber region and would be located in a central area but still close to the populous areas of West Yorkshire.

I'm not saying that sticking an airport next to a motorway is an instant solution to accessibility but it's a whole lot better than what LBA currently faces. While it may be handy for people in the northern suburbs of Leeds and Bradford, it is a pain to get to from the rest of the region (including other parts of a Leeds and Bradford.

But like I've said, it's not all about the motorway access, this location is served by the nearby rail lines that quickly link it with Leeds and Bradford as well as to York/Scarborough/Newcastle/Doncaster/Hull/Sheffield/Huddersfield/Halifax and a whole lot more places. Access to HS2 is also a bonus - which LBA pretty much has no chance of.
 
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Grumpy

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I suspect the location of the current airport is ideally situated to meet the local demographics. By which I mean the population in the North Leeds, York,Harrogate, Skipton, Ilkley areas are more likely to spend money on flying than are the residents of Middleton, Beeston, Normanton etc.
 

bangor-toad

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This has been discussed before (somewhere). A quick look at Google map or Earth makes this a 64m climb in 2000m approx. This works out at 1 in 30 or 3.3%. Not really gentle, perhaps requiring underground work?

Oh yes, I see what you mean.

Still I think that if the route diverged just north of Horsforth station and then steadily climbed on a route to the west of the existing track you could easily get a 3.5km alignment, possibly a bit more.

Allowing for some flatish bits like the station and the junction, that's give a gradient of 1 in 45. Not an easy one but less than the Lickey incline. Shove some decent electrification in and it's all possible I'd guess.

Of course, I'm an armchair expert and don't know the area that well so take this with the appropriate level of seriousness! :D
Cheers,
Mr Toad
 

Howardh

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If it's any interest, I live in NW Manchester, and use Manchester Airport (horrible place) and Blackpool (stings you for a tenner), both have rail links, I don't use Liverpool or Leeds/Bradford (no rail links).
Add the rail and I'm interested. Hate hanging around waiting for buses, crawling through the rush-hour etc.
Get your rail link!!
 

deltic08

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I wouldn't say its the middle of nowhere. It's central to the a Yorkshire and Humber region. Obviously pretty much any location is going to have its pitfalls as well as benefits but in my opinion, an airport that can be easily accessed via the motorway network instead of single carriageway roads through a city's suburbs is much better. Along with the rail links - the lines in this area are better to provide connections to the regions' other town and cities instead of a connection to a single Leeds commuter line.

Providing an airport in this area with world class transport options would likely mean that the majority of journeys to the airport are possible using public transport. This would reduce the strain on the motorways - but they are still vital for the airports accessibility. But obviously changes to the local road infrastructure would be needed anyway. I'm not saying there isn't going to be any increased because of course there is.

These are just ideas and unlikely to come to fruition but in my opinion this area is best placed to serve the Yorkshire region than LBA currently does - even with an added rail link.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



To provide the most efficient operation it would be best if Humberside/Doncaster airports closed if a new airport were to be built in this location. This airport could serve the Yorkshire and Humber region and would be located in a central area but still close to the populous areas of West Yorkshire.

I'm not saying that sticking an airport next to a motorway is an instant solution to accessibility but it's a whole lot better than what LBA currently faces. While it may be handy for people in the northern suburbs of Leeds and Bradford, it is a pain to get to from the rest of the region (including other parts of a Leeds and Bradford.

But like I've said, it's not all about the motorway access, this location is served by the nearby rail lines that quickly link it with Leeds and Bradford as well as to York/Scarborough/Newcastle/Doncaster/Hull/Sheffield/Huddersfield/Halifax and a whole lot more places. Access to HS2 is also a bonus - which LBA pretty much has no chance of.

Ex RAF Church Fenton is as close as you can get to a railway line. The best site in West Yorkshire.
 

Grumpy

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Shame it's in North Yorkshire then.

And if anything less accessible from Leeds than the current airport, in terms of road journey distance and travel time. Even more so for Bradford.
 

WestRiding

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It always amazes me when traveling to Krakow, Poland, how a country like Poland can have the political will, and forward thinking to have a rail link every half hour to the city centre, yet Great Britains LBA dumps you on the top of a hill in the middle of no-where, and you are left with a car park, or scummy bus to get to the city centre. If anything, it should be Eastern Europe that has the scummy bus link, not the United Kingdom. Same to be said of Doncaster Airport. People do not want buses after flying half way around the world. Cheapest option first...... Like Leeds none-existant trams.
 
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NotATrainspott

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It always amazes me when traveling to Krakow, Poland, how a country like Poland can have the political will, and forward thinking to have a rail link every half hour to the city centre, yet Great Britains LBA dumps you on the top of a hill in the middle of no-where, and you are left with a car park, or scummy bus to get to the city centre. If anything, it should be Eastern Europe that has the scummy bus link, not the United Kingdom. Same to be said of Doncaster Airport. People do not want buses after flying half way around the world. Cheapest option first...... Like Leeds none-existant trams.

I have a feeling that link would have been paid for with EU convergence funding, as are a lot of infrastructure projects in eastern Europe.
 
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