Least disappointing new Rolling Stock?

[a_c_skinner]

mods note - split from this thread

Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience. I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better. For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats...

www.railforums.co.uk

So basically all of them. What new trains get the vote as acceptable? I'll not risk going for "good".

 

[adc82140]

So basically all of them. What new trains get the vote as acceptable? I'll not risk going for "good".

With tongue in cheek (a bit!) to a lot of rail enthusiasts, everything will be a disappointment if it doesn't have seats stuffed with horse hair, incandescent light bulbs and mahogany walls, and be at least 10 carriages long, hauled by a steam loco.

 

[FrontSideBus]

I was actually quite impressed with 701. I had low expectations, having sampled newer "commuter" stock such as 700 and 707 which are really ghastly inside!
I also really like 345 to be honest! I really like the interior ambience on those.

 

[43096]

So basically all of them. What new trains get the vote as acceptable? I'll not risk going for "good".

Stadler FLIRTs - genuinely transformative of the regional services in East Anglia.

 

[DS25]

Not been on the 745/755’s but I really like the 231/756’s and the interior is quite nice imo and doesnt feel cramped and the level boarding is amazing.

 

[a_c_skinner]

10 carriages long, hauled by a steam loco

Oh, no, I'd be happy with a Peak. A class 46 ideally for me

 

[Rail Quest]

Controversial opinion but the class 197s for me. I was expecting them to be pretty terrible for their routes based on other CAF products but find them to be great for my morning commute. The only issues I have with them come when a diagram is short formed.

 

[Polarbear]

I’ll second the Flirts (745/755 etc). They’re comfortable, well designed trains that also happen to go like a demented ferret on electric power!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

For me - 323s. I was expecting them to be really crapola being cast offs but had them from Preston to the airport a few times and they did not disappoint.

 

[cf111]

I remember when the 390s were introduced and instantly felt what an enormous step forward they were from the knackered scrap they replaced.

The 385s, after the signal sighting issues were resolved, are also very nice.

 

[xotGD]

331s. 2+2 seating, with armrests and tables. So much better than the 333s with their 3+2.

Mark 5a. New loco hauled trains. A cause for celebration in itself. With big noisy 68s on the front. Just a pity that the first class is next to the loco.

 

[tfw756rider]

Mark 5a. New loco hauled trains. A cause for celebration in itself. With big noisy 68s on the front. Just a pity that the first class is next to the loco.

Or rear, depending on which way the train is going

 

[Bletchleyite]

mods note - split from this thread

Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience. I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better. For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats...

www.railforums.co.uk

So basically all of them. What new trains get the vote as acceptable? I'll not risk going for "good".

730/0. Other than the lack of level boarding, these are close to perfect as a short distance suburban EMU. They swallow crowds easily (a 3 car short form on the south WCML is better than a 4 car 350 for this by a country mile) yet have a classy interior look. Not the most comfortable, but absolutely knock spots off the terrible Class 777, again except the level boarding.

The /2 isn't too bad either though has one row too many in the centre section, same as 350s. (The pitch is the same as the /0, but it's a longer distance unit). I like them more now I've found where the two rows per unit of extra legroom seating aligned to the windows are located (you can work out where yourself as they are mine ).

The /1 would have been junk (just a gangwayed 720) but fortunately was never built.

The 810 has grown on me, again except legroom, it certainly has the nicest looking interior of any IET derivative, and also lacks the "blank" seats.

 

[tfw756rider]

Controversial opinion but the class 197s for me. I was expecting them to be pretty terrible for their routes based on other CAF products but find them to be great for my morning commute. The only issues I have with them come when a diagram is short formed.

I’ll second the Flirts (745/755 etc). They’re comfortable, well designed trains that also happen to go like a demented ferret on electric power!

197s and FLIRTs both have flaws (what modern units don't) but I do still really like both!

 

[Bletchleyite]

331s. 2+2 seating, with armrests and tables. So much better than the 333s with their 3+2.

Mark 5a. New loco hauled trains. A cause for celebration in itself. With big noisy 68s on the front. Just a pity that the first class is next to the loco.

Both of these have too many tables for my liking. The 195/331 has grown on me though aside from this.

The Mk5 is excellent in 1st, I'd say best UK 1st by some margin. Standard however is rubbish.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2026 ==

197s and FLIRTs both have flaws (what modern units don't) but I do still really like both!

I like Euro FLIRTs (PKP's high floor IC ones gave me very high expectations for the UK ones, which were sadly not met) but to me most of the UK ones are a bit poor, like the Pendolino the UK scale down has resulted in an excessively small, slightly claustrophobic cross section and poor legroom. Sure, the 755s knock spots off second hand 15x, but to me the 170 is a much nicer unit, again except level boarding.

The Class 777 is sadly not great, though it could fairly easily be improved as most of the problems with it now reliability is settling down are just a badly designed interior fit out - unlike other UK FLIRTs it's quite spacious with big windows and a 2.82m wide body (maximised for Merseyrail loading gauge).

 

[lowe1409]

Probably a controversial opinion but 397s. The seats ain't too uncomfortable, especially considering the era they got introduced in and have plenty of legroom. I also feel they was designed with the route in mind serving touristy places such as Edinburgh, the lakes and Manchester Airport, they actually feel like they have the luggage and easy to access cycle space needed. I've no experience of the mk5s but from a passenger perspective, 397s are certainly one of the best intercity trains in recent years and easily outclass 80x for comfort and practicality.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably a controversial opinion but 397s. The seats ain't too uncomfortable, especially considering the era they got introduced in and have plenty of legroom. I also feel they was designed with the route in mind serving touristy places such as Edinburgh, the lakes and Manchester Airport, they actually feel like they have the luggage and easy to access cycle space needed. I've no experience of the mk5s but from a passenger perspective, 397s are certainly one of the best intercity trains in recent years and easily outclass 80x for comfort and practicality.

I was going to mention these. Too many tables for my preference and a slightly rough ride, plus "metal bar" seating, but big windows, good legroom, no blinds (I dislike these with a passion as they cause conflict) and very near full window alignment in Standard. The main issue with them though is that they need to be 2-3 coaches longer.

I think with the significantly upgraded interior the 897s for LNER have the potential to be very, very good indeed.

 

[Recessio]

I was actually quite impressed with 701. I had low expectations, having sampled newer "commuter" stock such as 700 and 707 which are really ghastly inside!
I also really like 345 to be honest! I really like the interior ambience on those.

Agreed on both - I think on the 701s it was a shame not to have airline style drop-down tables in the back of the seats, but otherwise I was pleasantly surprised by their interiors.

The 345 ambience is nice as well, if they copied that ambience over to the 700s I think it would immediately go a long way to improving those units

 

[Harpo]

755s. Best rural unit by miles, no vile underfloor engine racket and AC capability.

Their bigger brother 745s would get the same praise from me if they’d turned up on secondary or regional work instead of an InterCity route.

 

[yorksrob]

mods note - split from this thread

Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience. I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better. For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats...

www.railforums.co.uk

So basically all of them. What new trains get the vote as acceptable? I'll not risk going for "good".

There are quite a few actually (surprising, coming from me, I know).

I like all of the trans pennine units - they make for a good travelling experience.

The trains on the LNWR services to Crewe.

Electrostars with the good seating.

158's and 159's.

225's

171's.

I enjoy all of these so long as they're not over crowded. Basically anything that's got comfy seats and good window alignment.

 

[Tracked]

745 and 755's, 720's too. Was down in Norwich a while back and they're all really good, the C2C 720's too (and their 357s are good too, similar feel to the 170 obviously, but way quicker acceleration).

195s - wasn't sure at first, now they've bedded in a bit I think they're quite decent compared to what they replaced - did the Hope valley on one last Christmas, and there was one doing a SHF-DON stopper on a Sunday evening a couple of years back, much better than the 150's I was used to on those services.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Loose definition of "new", but for me it has to be the Pendolino. Relentlessly hammered up and down the WCML for so long and still taking it. I remember them new, I was long distance commuting. There was a couple of hiccups, like the evening at Euston where we were treated to three different ones before they could get one to work, that was fun. The morning Lady Penelope rolled in to my station hauling a dead one on my train was also a treat!

 

[m0ffy]

Another vote for the 390. I don’t hate the Evero, but you notice the lack of tilt and the additional comfort it provides on the twisty WCML. The original seats were great on the 390s (although the replacement seats aren’t bad) and it still feels modern.

My runner up is actually the Voyager series. The 22/221s are a good train and it’s versatile - its only real flaw is not being long enough. The 222s demonstrate how good the series can be because they’re rarely crush loaded.

 

[stadler]

I would easily say that the Desiro City class 700/707/717 are my least dissapointing rolling stock. They unfairly get a lot of criticsm but i think they are fantastic. They far exceeded my expectations. They are easily my favourite UK train to travel on. They are extremely spacious. Extra wide aisles (wide enough that even a wheelchair user could wheel down the entire twelve coach train) and extra wide doorways. They handle crowds amazingly well and it is still easy to get on and off a busy train. It is impossible to feel cramped on these trains. They have lovely extra large windows with good seat alignment. They have a very nice bright ambience onboard. Very good ride quality. Overall a fantastic train.

 

[supervc-10]

The only downside IMO to the Desiro City units is the seats and the general colour scheme (at least in the 700s, not been on the others). A 700 with the seat design from the 350/450s would be truly excellent. Had quite a pleasant trip down from St Pancras to Brighton yesterday, in the declassified 1st class, which is also a nice little hack to know about! Unfortunately due to Thameslink having a complete meltdown yesterday, our trip back was on a Gatwick Express 387, and the ironing boards were not appreciated.

Personally I'd give another vote for the 345. For what they do - they're fantastic. Can absolutely pack the crowds in, are generally smooth and comfortable. The only issue really is luggage storage when on Heathrow runs.

 

[DelW]

158's and 159's.

225's

171's.

The thread title is "... new rolling stock" - most of that lot are pushing towards 35 years old

 

[lowe1409]

The thread title is "... new rolling stock" - most of that lot are pushing towards 35 years old

Depends how you look at it. Title of thread could refer to rolling stock that was introduced as new, even if said introduction was in BR days.

 

[Recessio]

Depends how you look at it. Title of thread could refer to rolling stock that was introduced as new, even if said introduction was in BR days.

If we're going down that route, then when SWT refurbed the 455s, they felt like a new train and I still think one of the best metro stocks of the time, made a huge difference on the routes. Certainly when you compared it to something like Southern and Southeastern's stock of the same era, where they often had ill-suited regional/suburban trains on inner metro routes.

 

[Retorus]

I would easily say that the Desiro City class 700/707/717 are my least dissapointing rolling stock. They unfairly get a lot of criticsm but i think they are fantastic. They far exceeded my expectations. They are easily my favourite UK train to travel on. They are extremely spacious. Extra wide aisles (wide enough that even a wheelchair user could wheel down the entire twelve coach train) and extra wide doorways. They handle crowds amazingly well and it is still easy to get on and off a busy train. It is impossible to feel cramped on these trains. They have lovely extra large windows with good seat alignment. They have a very nice bright ambience onboard. Very good ride quality. Overall a fantastic train.

How much are they paying you?

I'll always love a 390. Cosy and fun to ride on when you're on a twisty bit.

 

[Northerngirl]

Id say the best post privatisation is the 390, especially with the new seats, but more recently all of the aventras have impressed me, yes they have some flaws but generally very nice, spacious and comfortable