Latest Class 66s

[sburnley]

Is there any news about the latest batch of 66s? I believe they are due in to Newport Docks anytime soon. Can anyone confirm that - and possibly when they will be moved from there.

Will they go for testing before release into service?

 

[Boothby97]

They are enroute (not heard anything about them arriving at Newport yet), although 66752 was supposedly showing at Newport Docks on TOPS this morning.

 

[GB]

Not due untill 11th or 12th of this month.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As of about ½ hour ago the ship is still in the Hudson River, although it has sailed.


Source: Tweet from Stefanie Brown at Rail.

 

[sburnley]

Thanks for the info. I have a day out planned for the 9th July - so I don't need to go to Newport! Perhaps I'll go for the LM Class 350 3xxxs!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

They're on their way now on the HR Resolution current eta 11/7/14
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-67.75519/centery:40.73799/zoom:8/mmsi:636092312
I'm reliably informed the plan is to source a light engine to shunt them together and then drag them to Doncaster, presumably Roberts Road.

 

[Techniquest]

Thanks for the info. I have a day out planned for the 9th July - so I don't need to go to Newport! Perhaps I'll go for the LM Class 350 3xxxs!

I hope you're not planning to travel on them, as they're only on test yet and not in use until December for passengers.

As for MORE 66s, seriously?! Haven't we run out of numbers in the 66xxx range yet?

One day, one day, I'll see my last 66 and be done with them forever!

So come on, what numbers? Which FOC?

 

[jopsuk]

As for MORE 66s, seriously?! Haven't we run out of numbers in the 66xxx range yet?

This will bring the total built for the UK to 466, by my reckoning? Not quite as many as Class 47 (512), though the "Type 66s" built for elsewhere takes the total to about 670.

Outdone by the 996 Class 08!

So come on, what numbers? Which FOC?

66752-66772 for GBRf

 

[ExRes]

Am I not right in thinking that these will be the last ever 66s built ?

 

[DownSouth]

I hope somebody tells the Progress Rail board members just how small the UK freight market is, normally if they concluded production of a mainline freight class with just 466 built it would be thought of as a dismal failure and heads would roll.

The SD40-2 finished production with 5,617 built including the export JT26 (known to UK people as the Class 59) and GT26 versions.

 

[GB]

One day, one day, I'll see my last 66 and be done with them forever!

That will be the day you meet your maker then I should think!

 

[sburnley]

It's a mixed blessing seeing the last of a class. While ever you need something you have an excuse to go somewhere in the hope of seeing it and it keeps the interest going.

Once you have seen the last one then it becomes more difficult to justify the visit. I can remember visiting Clapham Junction when I needed loads of units and it was none stop activity recording all the passing units. Now I need just one class 450 so the station is almost tedious.

Regarding locos, I need a handful of 66s. But the reverse problem arises with them because they can appear almost anywhere. This means that you cannot choose any particular spotting location in the reasonable hope of seeing any one loco. My last 665xx was reported operating in and around Southahmpton and I was thinking about going there. I decided instead to do a West Midlands Day Ranger - and the loco passed through Northampton while I was there!

If/when you do meet your maker - you probably won't be able to predict that event either!

 

[SGS]

Am I not right in thinking that these will be the last ever 66s built ?

These are supposed to be the last. But they said that after the previous batch.

 

[Beveridges]

These are the last for certain this time

 

[GB]

The current spec and design of the class 66 doesn't meet the new Euro 6 emissions regulations that are coming some time later this year and to meet it would require extra investment and tooling. That is unlikely to happen with such a niche market where production runs are now very low.

Incidentally, that is why there are 21 locos coming over in this last lot as that was the most the factory could produce and ship before the regulations kick in.

So yes, this is very certain to be the last lot unless someone is going to order 100's of them to make it worth while.

 

[Techniquest]

Or bring more over from the continent and renumber them, or renumberings of ones already over here...

Thanks for the gen though all, and good point regarding last to see in a class. I only need one more 450 for sight too, so I kinda miss the old days of non-stop pen and paper action at Clapham Junction! In a way it's still going to add more observations to 'Trains you've seen working' though

 

[HSTfan!!!]

It may not be the last lot of 66's, I'd say watch this space, there could be more in the future!

 

[GB]

Ship is expected to dock at Newport around 0700 Thursday 10th July with the first of the locos scheduled to unload at around 1000.

 

[stibz]

The new 66s are now at Doncaster Roberts Rd, since their trip from Newport docks yesterday. 66752 66753 66754 66755 & 66756

 

[ash39]

They travelled up behind 66737. In numerical order except 756 and 755 were the wrong way around with 755 on the back!

https://flic.kr/p/ogy6Y9 - passing Hexthorpe
https://flic.kr/p/o26C64 - 66737 runs around at the former Royal Mail terminal and attaches to 66755 to run into Roberts Road.

https://flic.kr/p/ogy1T9 - 66752
https://flic.kr/p/ogy1T9 - 66753
https://flic.kr/p/o26Qzn - 66754
https://flic.kr/p/o272cy - 66755
https://flic.kr/p/oiiHhi - 66756

 

[cj_1985]

Has anyone else noticed from the pictures, that their cab front's don't seem to be as flush as their Canadian built 'sisters'

 

[ExRes]

It may not be the last lot of 66's, I'd say watch this space, there could be more in the future!

I believe it is a faint possibility but only if someone comes up with a lot of cash to build an engine that meets the emission requirements and is actually able to fit into the 66 shell, I read somewhere that Caterpillar have been doing some work on it but only at the theoretical stage

 

[455driver]

What are the realistic benefits to all these changing emission standards?

 

[ExRes]

What are the realistic benefits to all these changing emission standards?

Presumably it helps with employment levels within the EU machinery which, I hope, meets the required emission standards for hot air

 

[455driver]

Presumably it helps with employment levels within the EU machinery which, I hope, meets the required emission standards for hot air

That is probably closer to the truth than 'they' will admit!

 

[Harbon 1]

Has anyone else noticed from the pictures, that their cab front's don't seem to be as flush as their Canadian built 'sisters'

Could it be that the new ones have a different light cluster to the loco hauling them? They look pretty much normal to me unless we could see a direct comparison

 

[capital12]

Has anyone else noticed from the pictures, that their cab front's don't seem to be as flush as their Canadian built 'sisters'

There does seem to be an indentation all the way around the front below the windscreens that isn't on others?

 

[ac6000cw]

I believe it is a faint possibility but only if someone comes up with a lot of cash to build an engine that meets the emission requirements and is actually able to fit into the 66 shell, I read somewhere that Caterpillar have been doing some work on it but only at the theoretical stage

I think that Cat/EMD are much more concerned that they don't have a US 'Tier 4' emissions compliant loco to sell into their home market (whereas their main competitor GE at least have working demonstrators, and are talking about production versions next year) - see the Wall Street Journal article http://online.wsj.com/articles/caterpillar-falls-behind-ge-in-locomotives-race-1405291739

Caterpillar Inc. has fallen far behind General Electric Co. in the race to offer a railroad locomotive that complies with stricter emission standards that take effect next year.

Caterpillar's Electro-Motive Diesel unit said its freight locomotives probably won't be available until 2017. Caterpillar said it is working to speed up its schedule and could have demonstration models available as early as next year but doesn't anticipate having production units ready until 2017.

GE is already testing locomotives that comply with diesel-engine exhaust regulations that take effect Jan. 1. The company has added a pollution-reduction system to its existing locomotive engine and expects full-scale production of emissions-compliant locomotives to start next summer. "We've got units operating so we can demonstrate performance," said Tina Donikowski, vice president for GE's locomotive business.

Caterpillar's sluggish engine efforts are a setback for a company that prides itself on building large, high-horsepower diesel engines for off-road vehicles and industrial uses.

The freight locomotive market is prone to sharp swings in demand. Sales in North America this year are likely to top $6 billion as railroads expand their fleets in response to congestion and new business, such as hauling crude oil. Railroads also are buying this year because emissions components will add 15% to 20% to a heavy-haul locomotive's price, which averages about $2.5 million.

GE has an estimated 60% to 70% of the U.S. locomotive market. Electro-Motive's two-year absence is expected to help GE solidify that lead, especially if GE's locomotive is a hit with the railroads, analysts said. Caterpillar is "definitely going to lose market share for the years that GE will have something ready to sell," said Lawrence De Maria, an analyst for William Blair & Co.

Caterpillar played down the significance of the gap, predicting that railroads will delay buying locomotives with the reconfigured engines. "History indicates that the railroads are slow to adopt new technology until it is fully proven in the field," a Caterpillar spokeswoman said.

U.S. freight locomotive production typically ranges from about 500 to 1,000 units a year. But orders this year have already reached about 1,300 locomotives, the highest volume since before the 2008 recession, said consultant Sean Graham-White.

Caterpillar will rely on overseas sales of Electro-Motive locomotives to sustain the business during its U.S. market absence. Overseas orders make up about 30% of Electro-Motive's overall annual sales, which last year reached $2.5 billion, according to analysts' estimates.

When Caterpillar acquired Electro-Motive four years ago for $820 million, the Peoria, Ill., company promised to deliver an "industry-leading range of locomotive, engine and emissions solutions." Electro-Motive was expected to benefit from Caterpillar's long experience in designing and manufacturing engines for bulldozers, mining trucks, ships and electricity generators.

Caterpillar said its own diesel engines are being used in passenger locomotives and smaller freight locomotives used for short hauls. North American railroads, though, so far have shown little interest in powering Electro-Motive's long-distance freight locomotives with Caterpillar's diesel engines, according to rail industry analysts. Instead, the railroads continue to prefer Electro-Motive's mainstay 1984 engine model, which has been updated repeatedly over the years.

"It's a simple engine that's ultrareliable," said Edward Biggs, president of rail-equipment consulting firm Biggs Appraisal Service in Marietta, Ga., "That's what the selling point of [Electro-Motive] has been for the last 50 years."

Despite its popularity, the engine can't be easily retrofitted to meet new federal requirements for reducing diesel soot particles and smog-causing emissions, forcing Caterpillar to come up with an alternative engine.

The uncertainty over Electro-Motive's ability to produce a compliant locomotive could entice other locomotive manufacturers to step into the void for a second freight locomotive brand to GE. Wabtec Corp.'s MotivePower division builds smaller locomotives for freight and passenger service. A recently formed passenger locomotive venture between Siemens AG and engine-maker Cummins Inc. also could expand into the freight business.

Spokesmen for Siemens and Cummins declined to comment on whether the companies are interested in the freight locomotive market. A spokesman for MotivePower said it had no plans to expand its locomotive line for the long-distance, heavy-haul market.

We might be seeing the end of EMD's 2-stroke diesel engines in the US. Several years ago they were hoping/doing research to make it Tier-4 compliant, but it looks like it hasn't worked out so they are about to hand over their remaining market share in the US to GE I suspect.....

The comment at the end about Siemens + Cummins is interesting - up to a few years ago Siemens supplied all of EMDs AC traction electrical equipment, so they know quite a lot about the US heavy-haul market, and Cummins seems quite keen on getting into the 'big engine' diesel market. Siemens has quite a sizeable rolling stock factory in California so US production would be no problem (it's currently building electric passenger locos for Amtrak), and the major US railroads are enjoying a traffic boom at the moment so are hungry for motive power.

 

[ExRes]

Found this as well in the Rail 751 issue ;

'After all 21 of the Class 66s on order for GB Railfreight are delivered no more of the class can be built to this configuration. The '66' engine has a category 3a emissions standard, which is the current standard for the EU. But after December 31, all new engines must meet category 3b standards. In order to comply, only engines registered in the UK before the cut-off date will be allowed to operate. The same ruling affects the Class 68s on order for Direct Rail Services, meaning that by 2015 only second-hand locomotives from the EU can be acquired, and all new locomotives must comply with the new ruling. "We are currently certifying a couple of Caterpillar engines to 3b for use in Europe" said Billy Ainsworth CEO of the rail division of Caterpillar (of which EMD are a part). He said that "from a size standpoint" it would fit into the bodyshell of a Class 66, but it is more likely that the engine would be made available in a more modern locomotive. "We will have that engine available for the European market" he said. GBRf Managing Director John Smith said that "affordability will be an issue" with any new 3b compliant engines because "they will be more expensive as emission targets increase". However, he is encouraged by EMD's engine development.'

 

[ian959]

What are the realistic benefits to all these changing emission standards?

From an environmental point of view? Such a tiny percentage that it is virtually ignorable. The ever changing emission standards are nothing more than political BS to show that governments are doing something about climate change - just not enough to make any substantial difference to the amount of CO2 hitting the atmosphere.