Laptops (etc) ban on certain air routes.

[edwin_m]

Q - is there anyone here who takes cards and £1000 cash abroad with them and would be happy to leave it in a holdall to be put into the hold?

I think this post alludes to the fact that losing the above is about equivalent to losing a laptop. So anyone suggesting easier ways to obtain cash abroad is rather missing the point.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The thing is the ME3 don't directly compete with US airlines, there are few routes from the US where it makes sense to fly via the middle east - mainly Southern/Eastern Africa and India. The bulk of the US market is domestic, to Europe, and to the far east, and Emirates and co don't really compete there.

However the US carriers have been bitching for quite some time about how the ME3 get huge Government subsidies and therefore there isn't a level playing field. I think it depends where in the world you're going from and where in the US you're going to- New York-Singapore is pretty much the same time whichever way you go, for instance- and it's mostly been the east coast that the US carriers have been complaining about.

European airlines have far more to fear, as well as those two areas there's also the far east and austrailia

European carriers don't tend to connect through Dubai, Abu Dhabi or Doha though. BA tend to connect through Hong Kong because of their alliance with Cathay Pacific, Air France/KLM either through Hong Kong or through Shanghai, and Lufthansa through Singapore or Shanghai. It's the ME3 who connect through those airports.

The fact that nobody else is targeting those three airports- some of the safest in the world- is what makes me suspicious.

 

[DarloRich]

such cynicism - a decent person like President Trump would never stand for such blatant market rigging. I wont have it. Honest as the day is long that man.

 

[jon0844]

Going abroad I take £200-400 cash in Euros (and cards) - cards bring huge add-on fees unless you go through the bother of getting specific ones, and fees at ATM's too, plus you are on a day trip, find just the hat you want, go to pay and the reader's down....

I pay hotels in cash and they don't bat an eyelid as (a) the holidays are usually short currently and (b) I think they are used to Germans paying in cash, dunno if that still applies these days though.

The good thing about cash is there are no unexpected surprises on your credit card bill, ie transaction fees, % currency conversion etc etc.

Get a Revolut card you manage from your phone. You won't look back.

(there are similar alternatives)

Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Howardh]

Get a Revolut card you manage from your phone. You won't look back.

(there are similar alternatives)

Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk

Er, I'm the world champion at losing phones....happily they have always been the £9.99 PAYG with no personal info on; don't fancy carting round an i-phonething with my whole life attached to it!!
I'll look into it though; although bank cards with no fees needs investigating further.

Whatever happened to....


...travellers cheques?? Anyone??

 

[najaB]

Whatever happened to travellers cheques?? Anyone??

They're way too expensive to process, and too easy to forge.

 

[jon0844]

Er, I'm the world champion at losing phones....happily they have always been the £9.99 PAYG with no personal info on; don't fancy carting round an i-phonething with my whole life attached to it!!
I'll look into it though; although bank cards with no fees needs investigating further.

Whatever happened to....


...travellers cheques?? Anyone??

You manage from an app, but if you lose your phone you just log in on another.

The benefits are you can store multiple currencies, pay the interbank rates (yes, really; you can see the fluctuations in real time). There have been some restrictions placed up on it of late, and you will need to verify your identity for heavy usage (money laundering regulations) but you can activate or deactivate the mag strip/chip to secure a card, change the PIN on the go, and even have it so it won't work unless your phone is in the same location as where you're using the card.

The latter means if someone steals your card, it's useless unless they get your phone and log in to the app with a PIN/fingerprint.

I've had mine since they came out and love it. Of course, you should carry some cash to change in an emergency (as wisely suggested before) but I really do feel safe and secure with this.

You can have more than one card too, so carry a spare in another location that's deactivated unless you need it.

You can get smartphones for £30 or so these days, so I'd recommend you think about it next time you change phone. One benefit is that if you lose that, you can get another and all your data, messages, contacts will re-download automatically too.

If I lose my laptop (getting back on topic) then yes I'd have to buy another, but EVERYTHING is in the cloud. As long as I had reasonable Internet access, I'd expect to back in business within 30 minutes or less. On my new Chromebook, it synced my data and apps (even the wallpaper etc) in 15 minutes of connecting to Wi-Fi and logging in with my Google account.

 

[Jonny]

Lithium battery powered devices must be better off in the cabin, at least if they catch fire in the cabin it'll be detected quickly and the cabin crew can try and put it out with fire extinguishers.

Exactly - which is one reason why it is a bad idea to put it in the hold; I understand that cabin crew have special training which presumably includes the use of the right type of fire extinguisher, namely combustible metal fires (water won't do the job).

It may be that all electronic devices larger than a phone are banned from flights (cabin for security and hold for security and fire risk) inbound from prescribed countries at some point in the future. With the exception of certified medical essentials, that would mean everything including bored childrens' toys, adults tablets and 'essential' business laptops.
Safety and security should take precedence over convenience as far as the authorities are concerned.

The issue stems from a laptop bomb on a plane from Mogadishu last year.

The fact the bomb was given to the passenger by airport crew- airside- seems rather lost on Trump and May.

Now they'll just stick it in the hold where it can do more damage because nobody will be keeping an eye on it.

Airport staff are the weak link, not passengers. IS proved that in Sharm.

Still, it's all good security theatre to keep us plebs feeling frightened and grateful to our overlords.

That's as maybe, but the ^authorities^ do like a bit of theatre to keep the masses in check. Perhaps profiling passengers by nationality and origin possibly along with enhanced device checks would be more effective. Oh, wait, about that nationality and origin bit...

Also, even attempting to breach - or change plans so as to avoid - such restrictions is a good way to let the so-called authorities know that you are sick and tired of their rubbish. They want to stop the bad guys? Good. I wish them well but they're on their own. Even with the previous restrictions, I limit flying to visiting relatives overseas (and maybe business should the need arise).

Also, the odds of any particular flight being affected are slim and good device screening would be more effective. Besides, there would soon be changes to flight patterns to keep the business customers happy, like extra stopovers in continental Europe and/or Canada to circumvent the rules. Otherwise, there could be a rise in the prevalence of private jets with the subsequent lack of security.

Then, onto theft/damage prevention and similar factors.

I would seriously consider removing key parts (e.g. hard drive) from a laptop, and carrying them separately, such as hard drive and battery in hand luggage, and the rest in the hold. I wonder how the rules cope with "IT components" when it is no longer a single device.

All this before a MI5/6/equivalent bod in disguise as a baggage security officer starts opening laptops "to check they're genuine" and planting spyware on them. And that's before baggage handlers with sticky fingers come into play, or even those who are rather careless.

And ultimately a determined plotter will find another way, e.g.

I read that it's possible to bring a plane down using stuff bought airside. Example, DVD's when broken are as sharp as a knife, you can buy a lighter and a bottle of brandy or similar??

So there will always be round it. There are better ways, such as passenger screening, to enhance aircraft security. Of course, airside staff and even baggage handlers and hold screening are potential weak points. The screening of such devices "in hold" is not going to make it any easier.

Oh, and

All this whining - what s the world coming to when people cant survive for a few hours without a "device" :roll: Take a book.

It's more about a point of principle, even if I don't use the laptop - as long as it's kosher - then I might be inclined to take it onto a flight. Besides, the main use is that some of us have ^niche^ interests - and sometimes the in-flight entertainment system doesn't cut it. Oh, and try reading a book on a night-time flight when the lights are dimmed. Quitte frankly, some in flight entertainment systems - on UK charter airlines in particular - are often very lame.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh, and try reading a book on a night-time flight when the lights are dimmed.

Don't know about you, but I have not been on any long haul flight on which personal reading lamps were not provided.

 

[Howardh]

The Telegraph's travel section suggests the ban may be extended world-wide.

 

[GB]

So all these years we have had to remove laptops our bags and screen them separately has been pretty pointless...

 

[najaB]

The Telegraph's travel section suggests the ban may be extended world-wide.

As in all countries banning laptops, etc. from those countries or the ban will apply to flights to the UK from all countries?

 

[sk688]

Am slightly confused

I know that it is a ban on laptops , but does that include 2in1s , like the Surface 4 etc ? or iPads too ?

 

[najaB]

Am slightly confused

I know that it is a ban on laptops , but does that include 2in1s , like the Surface 4 etc ? or iPads too ?

All devices longer than 16.0cm, wider than 9.3cm and deeper than 1.5cm are banned.

 

[edwin_m]

All devices longer than 16.0cm, wider than 9.3cm or deeper than 1.5cm are banned.

I think it's actually as I've edited it above although our company guidance doesn't mention the 1.5cm. It also gives the same dimensions for the USA and UK bans, which they weren't when first announced, but I don't know if that means they have since been "harmonised" or if it's just a simplification by whoever wrote the guidance.

It also covers cameras and lenses but people are advised to check with airlines for specific details of these. Strikes me that a top-end camera kit would be more pricey to lose than most laptops, as well as probably more prone to damage from rough handling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So all these years we have had to remove laptops our bags and screen them separately has been pretty pointless...

Not really. You can't see an awful lot through a PCB on an X-ray scanner. It's one of the few bits of security theatre I actually agree with.

 

[najaB]

I think it's actually as I've edited it above although our company guidance doesn't mention the 1.5cm.

Thanks. I did wonder about that.

 

[miami]

I think it's actually as I've edited it above although our company guidance doesn't mention the 1.5cm. It also gives the same dimensions for the USA and UK bans, which they weren't when first announced, but I don't know if that means they have since been "harmonised" or if it's just a simplification by whoever wrote the guidance.

It also covers cameras and lenses but people are advised to check with airlines for specific details of these. Strikes me that a top-end camera kit would be more pricey to lose than most laptops, as well as probably more prone to damage from rough handling.

Fairly mid-range video camera and lens is easilly multiple 5 figures. I don't know any cameraman who would put their camera in the hold, I guess mainland Europe carriers will be doing well.

 

[Howardh]

As in all countries banning laptops, etc. from those countries or the ban will apply to flights to the UK from all countries?

All. Not much point in being selective.
I can see those going away with cabin baggage and tech, finding that when they return home the rules have changes and they have to pay to put the lappy in the hold. They won't be happy lappy users.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The Telegraph's travel section suggests the ban may be extended world-wide.

I've had it suggested to me that it will certainly become a pan-Europe ban before long, so it wouldn't be a great surprise if it became a worldwide blanket ban shortly after that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All. Not much point in being selective.

There is a point in being selective - the issue is essentially relating to issues with airport security at particular airports, one of which (Sharm) has been implicated in such things before resulting in a total hand luggage ban for a period of time.

OTOH, a pan-European ban is likely to do quite a lot to revive Eurostar's flagging passenger numbers!

 

[jon0844]

Eurostar would be absolutely swamped!

 

[miami]

Given eurostars delight in security theatre, why do people think that would be immune?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fairly mid-range video camera and lens is easilly multiple 5 figures. I don't know any cameraman who would put their camera in the hold, I guess mainland Europe carriers will be doing well.

Television crews usually do, in those aluminium locked boxes. Presumably if a manual inspection is needed they are called over for it.

If this does roll out onto all flights I can see the sales of those rocketing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given eurostars delight in security theatre, why do people think that would be immune?

Because the security risk is not the same. You can't cause explosive decompression of a train (hence why, for example, liquids are not banned).

Eurostar security is more like 1990s airport security.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It occurred to me, by the way, that it might be a sensible reaction to a member of staff sneaking a laptop to somebody...if you ban laptops, anyone with one is up to no good, wherever they get it from.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

OTOH, a pan-European ban is likely to do quite a lot to revive Eurostar's flagging passenger numbers!

It'll also be good for Thalys as well

 

[Jonny]

Once they lose passenger numbers, the airlines will start asking for justification and if it is not forthcoming then it will be hard to implement, especially if airlines are supposed to enforce it themselves. Also, passengers seem to value their electronics over their lives (given that they will disobey instructions to retrieve them after evacuations) so this is going to go down like a proverbial lead balloon.

It occurred to me, by the way, that it might be a sensible reaction to a member of staff sneaking a laptop to somebody...if you ban laptops, anyone with one is up to no good, wherever they get it from.

Or, maybe, they are just trying to sock it to the so-called authorities. Besides, profiling and absolute denial of boarding is much more effective than security theatre. After all, how can airport security detect body bombs (as in inside certain orifices, or even the body proper)?

Oh, and some in-flight entertainment systems are absolute rubbish.

Not really. You can't see an awful lot through a PCB on an X-ray scanner.

Perhaps if you used a CT-type scanner then you could detect more without causing any such problems.

 

[GB]

Not really. You can't see an awful lot through a PCB on an X-ray scanner. It's one of the few bits of security theatre I actually agree with.

Therefore it has been pointless surely?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Therefore it has been pointless surely?

No. It's meant that it would be impossible to hide something in a bag, potentially much bigger than what would fit in a modern slimline laptop, behind the laptop itself.