Lack of volunteers ?

[43066]

I think you have to take in to account that a heritage railways volunteer liason officer (other job titles are available) is likely to be a volunteer themselves so the timescale of any response may well need to take their personal circumstances in to account, holidays etc. At the Kent & East Sussex Railway our vlo is a conductor on Southeasten. Depending on the railway there may well need to be a need to attend an induction course which only runs so many times a year, probably not so often in the school holidays. Id always encourage potential volunteers to complete the on line form that many railways have (eg https://kesr.org.uk/volunteering/). You are unlikely to be able to speak to the right people by randomly phoning a general enquiry phone line.

I do absolutely take the point that people can’t expect an instant response. However in my case an email enquiry went unanswered, and it sounds as though @Vespa experienced similar. As noted it only takes an automatic holding reply, and for someone to proactively respond to messages within a reasonable timeframe. My experience was sending an email into what appeared to be a blank void.

Your railway is certainly one of the better ones in this respect. The one I’m referring to is another significant one, with mainline locos, close to the East and West Sussex border .

What if there is no one to cover it?

I'm not excusing it but lots of these organisations simply do not have anyone to cover. And actually operational duties may come first to keep operating days going.

If the complaint is that there aren’t enough volunteers, and based on this thread it seems to be, then they probably need to give that side of things more priority.

 

[Llanigraham]

I do wonder whether some members understand just how voluntary "jobs" work, and this is not just in the railway world:

The voluntary VLO goes on holiday.
He does not work in the railway office, if there is one, but from home so his email doesn't get answered.
Emails to his "work" address probably get transferred to his home PERSONAL computer.
He's on holiday and doesn't take his computer with him, and why should he, he's on holiday.
He doesn't put a "On Holiday" note on his computer at home because it's his personal computer.

How do I know this?
I'm the voluntary chairman of the caravanning section of a large national motorclub and get numerous email enquiries and complaints that go to a generic Group email address that are automatically forwarded to my PERSONAL email. When I'm away, as I have been for the last 2 weeks, none of those messages have been answered quite simply because I'm on holiday, and although I do have a smart phone that I can read my emails on, I don't bother BECAUSE I'M ON HOLIDAY!

Please start thinking folks. The more you complain about emails not being answered and complaining publically about it, the more you are putting those that are currently doing that "job" off. The lack of volunteers isn't just on the train operating side but in the back-room field as well and they are equally as important. If they go there will be no-one to coordinate volunteers, or write the rosters, or order the fuel or even order the tea and milk.

 

[birchesgreen]

Please start thinking folks.

We are thinking. We are thinking that fairly big and complicated organisations (as many preserved lines are) that are dependent on volunteers to exist at all need to put in place procedures that not deter the supply of new volunteers.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We are thinking. We are thinking that fairly big and complicated organisations (as many preserved lines are) that are dependent on volunteers to exist at all need to put in place procedures that not deter the supply of new volunteers.

But I think it shows a lack of understanding as to how voluntary organisations work.

How do we know that the ones mentioned above were big organisations? I suspect the big ones are all over ity probably with paid staff. It's the smaller ones that are likely struggling.

I'd be interested to know how many of those complaining volunteers aren't doing enough are volunteers themselves.

 

[Meerkat]

I do wonder whether some members understand just how voluntary "jobs" work, and this is not just in the railway world:

The voluntary VLO goes on holiday.
He does not work in the railway office, if there is one, but from home so his email doesn't get answered.
Emails to his "work" address probably get transferred to his home PERSONAL computer.
He's on holiday and doesn't take his computer with him, and why should he, he's on holiday.
He doesn't put a "On Holiday" note on his computer at home because it's his personal computer.

How do I know this?
I'm the voluntary chairman of the caravanning section of a large national motorclub and get numerous email enquiries and complaints that go to a generic Group email address that are automatically forwarded to my PERSONAL email. When I'm away, as I have been for the last 2 weeks, none of those messages have been answered quite simply because I'm on holiday, and although I do have a smart phone that I can read my emails on, I don't bother BECAUSE I'M ON HOLIDAY!

Please start thinking folks. The more you complain about emails not being answered and complaining publically about it, the more you are putting those that are currently doing that "job" off. The lack of volunteers isn't just on the train operating side but in the back-room field as well and they are equally as important. If they go there will be no-one to coordinate volunteers, or write the rosters, or order the fuel or even order the tea and milk.

An out of office reply is all that is needed.

 

[philthetube]

or to divert to another volunteer who can just send a quick email back saying sorry the person you need to contact is away until ????

 

[Adam Williams]

Sounds to me like what some of the heritage orgs really need is volunteer IT resource to set up a functional, fit-for-purpose cloud email system.

 

[james_the_xv]

Sounds to me like what some of the heritage orgs really need is volunteer IT resource to set up a functional, fit-for-purpose cloud email system.

An ideal solution would be to have a shared inbox that sends an automatic reply detailing approx. reply timescales/days of monitoring. Seems to work well for the various helpdesks I help monitor at my job.

 

[Llanigraham]

Reading the comments made since my last post, it does appear that many people do not understand what voluteering really invloves.

We are thinking. We are thinking that fairly big and complicated organisations (as many preserved lines are) that are dependent on volunteers to exist at all need to put in place procedures that not deter the supply of new volunteers.

But many preserved lines are NOT large and complicated organisations, and many rely on volunteers to do much of the background work. I can think of several where ALL the background work is done volunteers.

An out of office reply is all that is needed.

Why should I have that on my PERSONAL computer?
When I'm away I do look at my emails but the ONLY ones I answer are those from the family. I'm on holiday therefore I'm NOT working, so why should I answer "work" emails?

or to divert to another volunteer who can just send a quick email back saying sorry the person you need to contact is away until ????

And if there isn't one? Remember this is a thread about the SHORTAGE of volunteers, and that includes all sides of the business.

Sounds to me like what some of the heritage orgs really need is volunteer IT resource to set up a functional, fit-for-purpose cloud email system.

Great!
And who pays for that and is there the volunteer who understands it and can set it up?
Are you willing to do it?

An ideal solution would be to have a shared inbox that sends an automatic reply detailing approx. reply timescales/days of monitoring. Seems to work well for the various helpdesks I help monitor at my job.

Again, great, but who is going to set it all up and pay for it?

I really do think that many here do not understand just how poorly manned many of the preserved railways are, even the bigger ones, and how difficult it is to find volunteers, especially in the backroom side that isn't so glamourous. Perhaps those that are complaining loudest about this could consider volunteering their expertise in that field and not as drivers, firemen or guards.

 

[43096]

An ideal solution would be to have a shared inbox that sends an automatic reply detailing approx. reply timescales/days of monitoring. Seems to work well for the various helpdesks I help monitor at my job.

But that needs a volunteer to set it up and manage it…

 

[Llanigraham]

ADD.
Having just had a chat with someone from one of the slightly bigger heritage lines, he says that trying to get volunteers for the backroom work is almost impossible. Everyone wants the "glamour" jobs but not the "boring" office stuff!

 

[ABB125]

ADD.
Having just had a chat with someone from one of the slightly bigger heritage lines, he says that trying to get volunteers for the backroom work is almost impossible. Everyone wants the "glamour" jobs but not the "boring" office stuff!

That's interesting - I'd quite happily do "back office" work, as long as it can be done remotely where appropriate and at a time to suit me

 

[ChrisEJ1993]

ADD.
Having just had a chat with someone from one of the slightly bigger heritage lines, he says that trying to get volunteers for the backroom work is almost impossible. Everyone wants the "glamour" jobs but not the "boring" office stuff!

Because of my visual impairment, I can't do operational or engineering roles, so I guess I'm one of the few who would actually be quite interested in a back office position!

I too have had issues with no responses coming from heritage railways, and it can be super frustrating when there are banners everywhere seemingly crying out for volunteers but then not hearing anything back for months and months. It can also be frustrating when an enquiry isn't handled particularly well - for example, missing a call from the railway but then not receiving a voicemail message or a follow-up email and redialling the number just gets you to a sales desk who don't know who called you. Although, I must admit, that all of this has improved since moving to Manchester and trying with some of the local lines there! (For context, I used to live on the south coast, and then in Sheffield).

 

[TheTallOne]

Sounds to me like what some of the heritage orgs really need is volunteer IT resource to set up a functional, fit-for-purpose cloud email system.

I work in IT and the last thing I'd want to do is do IT work in my volunteering roles.

I volunteer to do something different.

That's said, perhaps not all IT competent people will feel the same. Maybe some would be happy to do so.

 

[Titfield]

Please start thinking folks. The more you complain about emails not being answered and complaining publically about it, the more you are putting those that are currently doing that "job" off. The lack of volunteers isn't just on the train operating side but in the back-room field as well and they are equally as important. If they go there will be no-one to coordinate volunteers, or write the rosters, or order the fuel or even order the tea and milk.

With all due respect; setting up out of office auto reply on an email address is a very simple and straightforward task. This sort of functionality is available in most (probably all) email systems.

Perhaps of more concern is that the experience of many potential volunteers is not that they do not hear back in two weeks (whilst someone is on holiday) bu that they do not hear back either at all or for very many months.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It all seemed so simple years ago. When I joined my local railway at 14 I posted my form and subscription plus a SAE and received my membership card later that week. I turned up that weekend,was given a long handled hook and directed towards a patch of land next to the line which was overgrown. Having cut it back tea was brewed and I was made very welcome. Nearly 40 years later I’m still there as a driver and signalman.

 

[lineisclear]

It all seemed so simple years ago. When I joined my local railway at 14 I posted my form and subscription plus a SAE and received my membership card later that week. I turned up that weekend,was given a long handled hook and directed towards a patch of land next to the line which was overgrown. Having cut it back tea was brewed and I was made very welcome. Nearly 40 years later I’m still there as a driver and signalman.

Which really highlights the challenge! Most heritage railways were founded and developed on the basis of volunteers turning up and having a go at things for which they might no experience or qualifications and without having received appropriate training. It worked in a past less litigous lightly regulated environmmet but not any longer. Those in charge, who may well be volunteers themselves, cannot be expected to allow the railway to run the risk of sanctions for failure to manage sensible health and safety compliance. They might also be personally liable themselves. In todays' world competence to undertake volunteer roles must be established and documented. We may lament the loss of the old free and easy culture but there's no going back.
Instead we must do our best to make surmounting the regulatory hurdles as easy as possible and to make sure that even if the simple "turn up and get stuck in" regime is history the welcome continues.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Which really highlights the challenge! Most heritage railways were founded and developed on the basis of volunteers turning up and having a go at things for which they might no experience or qualifications and without having received appropriate training. It worked in a past less litigous lightly regulated environmmet but not any longer

New volunteers on my line can no longer turn up and get on with it as of old. They now have to attend a one day induction course before starting.

 

[enginedin]

I work with a uniformed youth organisation

I volunteered with a Uniformed youth organisation (in Merseyside, do I know you...? :thinking: ) for several years - including getting various long service and regional awards. I got despondent during/after covid when they increased the training (with warning) but had the disillusioned idea that because everyone was under lockdown they'd be happy to spend their evenings doing online training, when most people would have spent all day online so had no appetite to do that in their spare time. I've since heard that that organisation has lost >25% of volunteers nationally since the pandemic.

 

[Vespa]

I volunteered with a Uniformed youth organisation (in Merseyside, do I know you...? :thinking: ) for several years - including getting various long service and regional awards. I got despondent during/after covid when they increased the training (with warning) but had the disillusioned idea that because everyone was under lockdown they'd be happy to spend their evenings doing online training, when most people would have spent all day online so had no appetite to do that in their spare time. I've since heard that that organisation has lost >25% of volunteers nationally since the pandemic.

Possibly, yes I do work in Merseyside and I've recieved long service medals with bar and other medals for service.
My organisation have lost members since Covid, I stuck it out because I believed in the organisation's aim and purpose, I do not denigrate those who have left as they will have their reasons for leaving such as family and other priorities which is understandable and I thank them for their service.


It's not unique to my organisation, other voluntary organisations including heritage railways and some have changed jobs/roles, I call it the "Great Reset" as everybody has stopped activities, this has given them time and space to reconsider their priorities instead of being carried along by daily work with the commute and events etc.

Digital training and compliance is the new reality today, there's no getting away from it.

Heritage organisations needs to work harder to get volunteers in and retain them, retention is the most important one and engage them in their progress.

 

[bleeder4]

It's all the training and paperwork that puts me off. If I have to attend training courses and fill out reams of paperwork then I'd like to get paid for that. I would be quite happy to turn up at my local heritage railway and help them cut back foliage and tidy up stations on days when trains aren't running. But not if I've got to faff about attending courses, going through inductions etc. That's the point at which it starts to feel like a normal job, rather than just something I do in my spare time. Of course, decades from now when I'm retired, have no day job to do, don't need to worry about earning a wage and have no professional commitments, then I won't care at all, as doing the training courses gets me out of the house when I have nothing else to do. It's why most volunteers are retired people I think.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It's all the training and paperwork that puts me off. If I have to attend training courses and fill out reams of paperwork then I'd like to get paid for that. I would be quite happy to turn up at my local heritage railway and help them cut back foliage and tidy up stations on days when trains aren't running. But not if I've got to faff about attending courses, going through inductions etc. That's the point at which it starts to feel like a normal job, rather than just something I do in my spare time. Of course, decades from now when I'm retired, have no day job to do, don't need to worry about earning a wage and have no professional commitments, then I won't care at all, as doing the training courses gets me out of the house when I have nothing else to do. It's why most volunteers are retired people I think.

Unfortunately the law doesn't differentiate, and that is the world we live in now a days.

 

[Flying Phil]

I think Bleeder4 may be pleasantly surprised by how quickly he could be helping out at his local railway. Yes they will want to know who he is and what he can do safely, what are his competences.....and what he would enjoy doing and learning.....but very soon he would be involved and help to make a difference.
Just turn up, ring up or go on-line and enquire.

 

[jupiter]

To be honest I think just turning up is a brilliant way to fast track the whole thing.

 

[mike57]

To go back to the OP's original question, some thoughts from an older contributor.

I had hoped that one day I would be able to volunteer, however complete retirement is looking further and further away if I want to retain my current standard of living. Career and family pressures will also rule out younger volunteers. All groups are feeling the cost of living issues, and volunteering comes with a cost. Couple this with more emphasis on Health and Safety which means more time spent doing 'boring' stuff and less time doing interesting things and a lot of people are not wanting to get involved.

To be honest all these problems are beyong the scope of the affected organisations to fix.

This is also going to affect the small undertakings disproportionately, all one can do is support where you can, in any way you can.

 

[james_the_xv]

To be honest I think just turning up is a brilliant way to fast track the whole thing.

I agree, I'd also add make sure someone who can help is available. I found it quite difficult to begin with at the start conversing over email (average 1 every 2 weeks) but then I was invited down by the volunteer coordinator at the GCR and we had a great chat about what was available, what would be best given my work commitments, current industry knowledge, and desired knowledge/roles. I'm now on the next signaller course (having gone in at the start thinking I wanted to work in the loco department), and I'd be lying if that cold saturday morning didn't fast track the decision/retain my interest. Especially as a younger person wanting to get involved it can be an intimidating prospect but you never know until you go and talk to someone sometimes.

 

[En]

This is a grossly unfair generalisation, especially given many heritage railways/attractions make no effort to market volunteering roles to young people and still have their attitudes stuck in the 50s.

Indeed
add in the issues that people in various minoritised communities have seen with a a particular railway and their attacks on possibly the least approrpaite person to fail to follow the basics on the law on , creates further reluctrance in those minoritised communities to even consider volunteering

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2024 ==

To go back to the OP's original question, some thoughts from an older contributor.

I had hoped that one day I would be able to volunteer, however complete retirement is looking further and further away if I want to retain my current standard of living. Career and family pressures will also rule out younger volunteers. All groups are feeling the cost of living issues, and volunteering comes with a cost. Couple this with more emphasis on Health and Safety which means more time spent doing 'boring' stuff and less time doing interesting things and a lot of people are not wanting to get involved.

To be honest all these problems are beyong the scope of the affected organisations to fix.

This is also going to affect the small undertakings disproportionately, all one can do is support where you can, in any way you can.

because the larger ones which the reserves and assets and ability to ramp up to professional provision - pr where professional provision has come aobut because of the risk assessment / regualtory requirements

 

[trebor79]

Fifteen or so years ago I did inquire about volunteering at the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, preferably as a signalman. Although I expected the full gamut of signalling Rules & Regulations and a General Rulebook, there seemed to be a mass of things that I would have to be checked out on if I was even going to be allowed to breathe on the railway. No, thank you: this is not what someone who used to wander out on to the West of England mainline in his shirt sleeves is going to be happy with.

Safety is not just important - it is the single highest priority for any organisation.

In an increasingly regulated and litigious society no organisation can afford to do anything other than treat it as its single highest priority.

I have overhead volunteers when challenged retort "dont worry I wont sue as it will be my fault".

That is not the point nor is it any defence.

Fatalities and injuries (other than very minor ones) will be investigated by the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) and could result in a prosecution, fine and costs that could bankrupt any heritage railway.

However that is also not the point. Anyone be they an employee or volunteer must be confident that their place of work or volunteering has in place safe systems of work that provide the level of protection they have the right to expect.

Yep. I volunteered as a teenager over 25 years ago.
I was nearly killed in a shunting incident.
I went into a saddle tank with a bucket of bitumastic paint, formed a rust "dam" and poured said paint over a leak. Safety instructions were "hold your breath until you come out".
We found loads of asbestos on a boiler and started to removed it with paint scrapers into plastic bags that were then "disposed of". Guess who was sent under the loco to vacuum up all the tufts and fibres that had fallen off?
I spent an entire weekend needle gunning the inside of a saddle tank. No gas monitor, nobody checking on me.
Another shunting incident if the screw coupling had hit me a half inch higher it would have smashed my nose, a half inch lower all my front teeth would have been broken.

I had fun. But it wasn't right.

 

[En]

I wonder whether the lack of volunteers may partly be down to some of the “characters” who frequent heritage railways, some of whom aren’t exactly encouraging or welcoming. High profile cases like that of Joanne Crompton who was IIRC “dismissed” by a railway under dubious circumstances also won’t help with this, of course.

and it still goes on, as those familiar with a certain Learned Friend of the railways will be familiar

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2024 ==

and perhaps in that statement therein lies part of the problem.

exactly that

 

[james_the_xv]

Yep. I volunteered as a teenager over 25 years ago.
I was nearly killed in a shunting incident.
I went into a saddle tank with a bucket of bitumastic paint, formed a rust "dam" and poured said paint over a leak. Safety instructions were "hold your breath until you come out".
We found loads of asbestos on a boiler and started to removed it with paint scrapers into plastic bags that were then "disposed of". Guess who was sent under the locks to vacuum up all the tufts and fibres that had fallen off?
I spent an entire weekend needle gunning the inside of a saddle tank. No has monitor, nobody checking on me.
Another shunting incident if the screw coupling hat had a half inch higher it would have smashed my nose, a half inch lower all my front teeth would have been broken.

I had fun. But it wasn't right.

There seems to be a lot of survivorship bias among some of those against modern health and safety policy. As you say you were very nearly seriously injured on multiple occasions, I'm sure that story can be echoed many times over with some people coming off fine like you, but others less so.