Kings Cross - security with tape closing platform

[Brubulus]

I know I'm in the wrong here, and you have to arrive 2 mins before, but never seen security with tape blocking platform access before departure. Is this a common practise that I just haven't noticed yet.

 

[Tester]

I know I'm in the wrong here, and you have to arrive 2 mins before, but never seen security with tape blocking platform access before departure. Is this a common practise that I just haven't noticed yet.

Sadly, it is.

But only at ground level - not via the footbridge.

 

[800001]

I know I'm in the wrong here, and you have to arrive 2 mins before, but never seen security with tape blocking platform access before departure. Is this a common practise that I just haven't noticed yet.

Normally it's LNER staff pulling the barrier across, never seen security doing it.

 

[Brubulus]

Normally it's LNER staff pulling the barrier across, never seen security doing it.

It was a great northern service. The staff could very well have been LNER, but they weren't wearing anything visibly suggesting they were LNER employees and looked much more like operational/security staff. Just something I hadn't noticed before and was annoying for me as I hadn't realised my ticket was pick up instead of an e ticket so missed the train.

 

[800001]

It was a great northern service. The staff could very well have been LNER, but they weren't wearing anything visibly suggesting they were LNER employees and looked much more like operational/security staff. Just something I hadn't noticed before and was annoying for me as I hadn't realised my ticket was pick up instead of an e ticket so missed the train.

Ah, I've never known them to do Great Northern services, but I don't pay much attention to them whilst travelling through KGX.

 

[choochoochoo]

It was a great northern service. The staff could very well have been LNER, but they weren't wearing anything visibly suggesting they were LNER employees and looked much more like operational/security staff. Just something I hadn't noticed before and was annoying for me as I hadn't realised my ticket was pick up instead of an e ticket so missed the train.

Think they (Great Northern) do it for departures from Platform 9 and 10

 

[styles]

Think they (Great Northern) do it for departures from Platform 9 and 10

It's to protect the muggles from hitting the brick wall in the middle.

 

[father_jack]

Might have been because the National Rail services are busier today and there's crowding ?

 

[bananas]

Might have been because the National Rail services are busier today and there's crowding ?

I think they always do this

 

[sh24]

Closing 2 mins before on a commuter railway is crazy. A great example of the railway organising for its own convenience and KPI’s, and not the passenger.

 

[styles]

Closing 2 mins before on a commuter railway is crazy. A great example of the railway organising for its own convenience and KPI’s, and not the passenger.

It's not only the industry's KPIs though, it's passengers'. If trains depart late and have knock-on effects then passengers will rightly complain about late running services. I mean maybe the 2 minutes could be reduced to 1 minute I don't know, but hardly think it makes a significant difference. Regular commuters know these parameters and can plan accordingly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Euston they manage different times - 2 minutes for Avanti, 30 seconds for WMT.

 

[Teds]

At Euston they manage different times - 2 minutes for Avanti, 30 seconds for WMT.

I think is the same at King's Cross. I have heard of an issue with security at Kings Cross not knowing Great Northern ticket validity on one of the LNER platforms. I think the security people are contracted by LNER and follow LNER rules.

 

[BZ1044]

It could may have been Grand Central staff - who I also believe manage Hull Trains and Lumo in addition to GC services.

 

[Towers]

At Euston they manage different times - 2 minutes for Avanti, 30 seconds for WMT.

In fairness to Avanti, how long does it take for a Pendolino to close doors, retract the steps, give the RA and start rolling? It must be a fair bit longer than most other stock, I would imagine?

 

[Brubulus]

I think is the same at King's Cross. I have heard of an issue with security at Kings Cross not knowing Great Northern ticket validity on one of the LNER platforms. I think the security people are contracted by LNER and follow LNER rules.

Pretty sure this is the case too. Especially given it was the LNER platforms to be fair.

 

[Sakuradori]

TOCs do their own barriers, nothing to do with Network Rail or station security. The TOCs all realised that it's better if trains can be dispatched without people clinging to the side of them after turning up late (not a random example). LNER staff do LNER trains, GC/HT/LD staff do their trains, GN/TL staff do their trains. Each have a different measure of how early the platform closes, as each takes a different amount of time to dispatch their train. The common theme is that the barrier is closed when (and only when) the dispatch process starts, whether that's 2 minutes or 90 seconds or 1 minute or whatever before the scheduled departure.
Nobody takes any enjoyment in 'forcing' someone to miss their train, but if 600 people were able to make the train on time* then I personally don't think they should be delayed by one person that didn't, for whatever reason.

(*I know people have opinions on the train 'closing' before the time listed on the departure board, and I mostly agree with them- I think there should be a clearer indication on the CIS that the time boarding closes and the timetabled departure are effectively separate times.)

 

[andyjhatton]

At Euston they manage different times - 2 minutes for Avanti, 30 seconds for WMT.

You'd be lucky if the platform's announced 2 minutes prior to departure for an Avanti service.

 

[Statto]

You'd be lucky if the platform's announced 2 minutes prior to departure for an Avanti service.

Euston is not too bad as it once was, i was at Euston a couple of months ago & AWC services were being called 20 minutes before departure

 

[James90012]

Interesting.

I was going to ask about this when I was blocked from joining a GN train as LNER had closed off the platform. I hadn't noticed this before but I assumed it was a one off... perhaps not. Fair enough to block platforms for their own services but it was totally unacceptable in my view to put any barrier in the way of the GN service - it made me doubt I was at the right platform and created totally unnecessary worry.

For reference I was boarding the 17.24 at around 17.17 when the 17.18 LNER was departing on the other side of the island.

 

[edwin_m]

For reference I was boarding the 17.24 at around 17.17 when the 17.18 LNER was departing on the other side of the island.

Are there ever closer-spaced departures from opposite sides of the same island, where closing the platform for dispatch of the first one would create a risk of people missing the second?

 

[Sakuradori]

Are there ever closer-spaced departures from opposite sides of the same island, where closing the platform for dispatch of the first one would create a risk of people missing the second?

LNER trains from KX usually leave in groups, xx:00 EDB, xx:03 LDS xx:06 LCN/YRK, and they're quite commonly on opposite sides of the same island platform.
When I very occasionally pull the barriers, and this situation comes up, I don't fully close the barrier but leave a gap, and anyone that comes up gets asked what train they're boarding and helped through/stopped accordingly.
Not sure if many of the others do this, since it's really not far to the boarding train once the dispatched train has left anyway, but I get that it stresses people out to see a closed platform 4 minutes before your train leaves.

 

[800001]

You'd be lucky if the platform's announced 2 minutes prior to departure for an Avanti service.

You obviously have not used Euston recently.
Vastly improved over the last several months, with many trains boarding 20 minutes prior to departure.

 

[Skiddaw]

Euston is not too bad as it once was, i was at Euston a couple of months ago & AWC services were being called 20 minutes before departure

Yes, the last couple of times I've travelled back to Penrith from Euston it has been similar. I still use the platform finder app so I can be at the right end of the concourse just to be on the safe side (though as I'm able bodied and can move very quickly I'm usually near the front of the queue to get on the platform). It used to be dire for anyone not able to get their skates on.

 

[andyjhatton]

You obviously have not used Euston recently.
Vastly improved over the last several months, with many trains boarding 20 minutes prior to departure.

Clearly I haven't...

Last Friday, a whole 6 minutes.
And that SMS landed about 30s before the public announcement

 

[James90012]

LNER trains from KX usually leave in groups, xx:00 EDB, xx:03 LDS xx:06 LCN/YRK, and they're quite commonly on opposite sides of the same island platform.
When I very occasionally pull the barriers, and this situation comes up, I don't fully close the barrier but leave a gap, and anyone that comes up gets asked what train they're boarding and helped through/stopped accordingly.
Not sure if many of the others do this, since it's really not far to the boarding train once the dispatched train has left anyway, but I get that it stresses people out to see a closed platform 4 minutes before your train leaves.

I don't think the GTR/LNER issue should happen regularly, at least in the working timetable, but of course things are re-platformed everyday.

The 17:18/17:24 issue is perhaps a specific one as that is how they are timetabled at King's Cross.

 

[Peter0124]

Clearly I haven't...

Last Friday, a whole 6 minutes.
And that SMS landed about 30s before the public announcement

According to RTT it was a tight turnaround with the set arriving at 14:56

 

[LA50041]

Clearly I haven't...

Last Friday, a whole 6 minutes.
And that SMS landed about 30s before the public announcement

That was due to a set swap because of disruption. 9G28 should have been formed from 1A39 but as this didn't arrive until 1500, stock from 9M52 was used as that arrived before. You can't expect plaforms to be advertised before a train is there as that would cause chaos with passengers disembarking/embarking at the same time

 

[edwin_m]

You can't expect plaforms to be advertised before a train is there as that would cause chaos with passengers disembarking/embarking at the same time

For a quick turnaround the best approach is probably to skip any on-board preparation activities (on-train staff can come through with bags for litter before arrival) and have the departing passengers already on the platform so they can board immediately the arrivals have alighted.

 

[Watershed]

I know people have opinions on the train 'closing' before the time listed on the departure board, and I mostly agree with them- I think there should be a clearer indication on the CIS that the time boarding closes and the timetabled departure are effectively separate times.

Most countries do without this nonsense; dispatch starts at the advertised departure minute - not at some random, varying amount of time beforehand.

But if we must follow the folly of the French and Spanish, the 'doors close' time needs to be pointed out at the point of purchase and subsequently be printed on the ticket.