The screens at Glasgow Queen Street and Central do that if there's only one service in the platform. I thought it was fairly standard, and was to emphasise that the entire train was for the destination?
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Kings Cross - New station
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At worst it seems potentially confusing to me, or at best just looks stupid. Okay, so there was just one train at platform 11 (11b) and nothing at 11a - but it does seem strange (to me) to show:
NN:NN DESTINATION <PLATFORM>
Calling at A, B, C, D
NN:NN DESTINATION <PLATFORM>
Calling at A, B, C, D
Now, the same time and same destination should make it obvious to most people - but if anyone is any way unsure (the type of person who asks staff about everything) then they're going to be confused, and may think - somehow - that one train might be calling at different stations. Will they read both and see that they're the same, and assume it is in fact the same train? Will they see the same stations but still get confused?
Probably in 90% of cases, the former, and for the other 10% the poor gateline staff have to keep saying 'Same train, platform 11...' over and over!
NN:NN DESTINATION <PLATFORM>
Calling at A, B, C, D
NN:NN DESTINATION <PLATFORM>
Calling at A, B, C, D
Now, the same time and same destination should make it obvious to most people - but if anyone is any way unsure (the type of person who asks staff about everything) then they're going to be confused, and may think - somehow - that one train might be calling at different stations. Will they read both and see that they're the same, and assume it is in fact the same train? Will they see the same stations but still get confused?
Probably in 90% of cases, the former, and for the other 10% the poor gateline staff have to keep saying 'Same train, platform 11...' over and over!
Showing it on both screens makes sense for trains line the 18:44 to Peterborough where one half arrives 20 minutes before the other and they couple up on the platform.
You might see people on 11a waiting in vain for the second half of the 11:36!
You might see people on 11a waiting in vain for the second half of the 11:36!
The display isn't split up to say;
Platform 11a:
xxx
Platform 11b:
xxx
If it was, I could perhaps see why you'd have the same information on both - so people know they can stand along both parts of the platform.
What it is at the moment is simply repeating the info - with only platform 11. No a or b, so perhaps that would confuse people who won't know if 11 means a or b, or both!
We all know that there are people who are genuinely confused, and they're not all idiots. Some may simply be apprehensive about making a mistake and want constant reassurance. As a service to the general public, there are all types of users and needs.
I'm also wondering whether it would ever be a good idea to announce a train at both nA and nB and have both open for boarding. There would almost certainly be people getting on the wrong train. Perhaps it would have been better to keep the one on section b 'quiet' until the front train had departed?
Platform 11a:
xxx
Platform 11b:
xxx
If it was, I could perhaps see why you'd have the same information on both - so people know they can stand along both parts of the platform.
What it is at the moment is simply repeating the info - with only platform 11. No a or b, so perhaps that would confuse people who won't know if 11 means a or b, or both!
We all know that there are people who are genuinely confused, and they're not all idiots. Some may simply be apprehensive about making a mistake and want constant reassurance. As a service to the general public, there are all types of users and needs.
I'm also wondering whether it would ever be a good idea to announce a train at both nA and nB and have both open for boarding. There would almost certainly be people getting on the wrong train. Perhaps it would have been better to keep the one on section b 'quiet' until the front train had departed?
I think the scrolling nature of the displays doesn't help. Say for one of the Royston village splitters, the message you want to get across is:
All 8 carriages for Letchworth, Baldock and Royston
Front 4 carriages for Cambridge
Rear 4 carriages for Shepreth, Meldreth and Foxton
But what you get is:
11a Cambridge: Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Cambridge.
11b Foxton: Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Shepreth, Meldreth, Foxton.
I'm not sure how to put it better, but the latter isn't at all clear for the occasional traveller, particularly if not all the information, or information about splitting, is on the screen at one time.
All 8 carriages for Letchworth, Baldock and Royston
Front 4 carriages for Cambridge
Rear 4 carriages for Shepreth, Meldreth and Foxton
But what you get is:
11a Cambridge: Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Cambridge.
11b Foxton: Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Shepreth, Meldreth, Foxton.
I'm not sure how to put it better, but the latter isn't at all clear for the occasional traveller, particularly if not all the information, or information about splitting, is on the screen at one time.
In addition, will they mark a and b more clearly on the platform if they're going to use the signs to show the front/rear set of a train?
When a train is joined, I bet a lot of people won't think that the obvious join of two trains (i.e. two cab ends facing each other) is what marks the front and rear. Sorry if I keep making people sound like idiots, but I am sure the staff on the ground would be totally with me on this!
When a train is joined, I bet a lot of people won't think that the obvious join of two trains (i.e. two cab ends facing each other) is what marks the front and rear. Sorry if I keep making people sound like idiots, but I am sure the staff on the ground would be totally with me on this!
What I found mildly amusing once was the intercity board at KGX was showing the TOC and On Time in the info column. Then there must have been a shift change at 11am as at precisely that time, one by one the further info column for each service changed to Being Prepared. Even for services where incoming train to form the service hadn't arrived.
Are the departure boards still separated between LDHS and local services in the new terminal?
Are the departure boards still separated between LDHS and local services in the new terminal?
swt_passenger
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There wasn't any room to do that, without shortening all the platforms. A number of possibilities other than the one eventually chosen were researched and found wanting. In addition, there were declared objectives to improve the interchange with the St Pancras domestic services, and improve the connections between the suburban platforms and LU.
It seems to me that they made exactly the right choices, given the site limitations
transmanche
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Genuine question... why do you feel that?
Just out of interest, because normally the main enterence is at the front of the station
Rather than have the front open, they could built something similar to the side (a nice tall glass structure) that would have continued to allow you to see the wall.
Maybe if they need to add more retail space or space for passengers, under shelter, they can do this in future years?
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
Maybe if they need to add more retail space or space for passengers, under shelter, they can do this in future years?
Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
There were some people giving out information about the changes on friday night. If I'd been coming in as normal from york way I probably wouldn't have seen them.
They said the. York way entrance will be exit only until all work is completed at an unspecified date in 2013.
They said the. York way entrance will be exit only until all work is completed at an unspecified date in 2013.
shinkansen1966
Member
Turning the York Way entrance into an exit only is my main gripe with new Kings Cross set up. It's an excellent short cut into and out of the station. Normally, I arrive at the station on a bus coming down the Caledonian Road where I alight, then walk along Caledonia St, cross York Way and into the KX.
From Monday, when getting off the bus, I've got a longer walk around the front of KX and into the western concourse.
Still, it'll be interesting to see how effective the segregation of arrivals and departures will be.
transmanche
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TBH, we're all probably used to thinking of the Euston Road entrance as the 'front' as that's where the main entrance has been for so long. But I think for most stations the main 'front' entrance will be at the 'side'.
I think as travel patterns change over the next few years (with the completion of Thameslink and Crossrail) the need for easy interchange with St Pancras will become more important than ever. Already the main entrance at St Pancras is on Pancras Road and the tube station has been rebuilt to reflect these changes.
So I'm with swt_passenger, I think they've done the right thing. And it's a rare case of extra passenger-handling capacity being provided before it's needed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's not clear to me if the York Road exit will be enforced as 'exit only in the sense of preventing people accessing the retail units (and using the old concourse as a cut-through). Or if they mean 'exit only' in the sense of not being able to access the platforms directly.
I wouldn't be surprised if TfL are considering changes to bus routes in the longer term; so that terminating services use Pancras Road rather than Stop G in York Way and through services stop in Euston Road.
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swt_passenger
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...and just to re-emphasise that we've currently no idea if next weeks set-up is permanent.
Just because entrance via York Way is being stopped now, doesn't mean it will stay that way once the front concourse is demolished, as it is shown as an entry on the planning drawings.
Just because entrance via York Way is being stopped now, doesn't mean it will stay that way once the front concourse is demolished, as it is shown as an entry on the planning drawings.
David Goddard
Established Member
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Trolley?
All double dutch to those of us on the Southern Region (except those ont he Salisbury line) I'm afraid!
I saw one of the guys holding a bunch of folded leaflets as I was looking about the station (and taking some photos). He then came over and said 'hello' to me, but didn't say anything else - so I said hello back!
I didn't ask him for the leaflet as I couldn't see what they were (I assumed they were probably maps/guides to the changes on the Monday).
Very odd! Usually the people handing out stuff would be a little more pro-active than just standing around looking bored. It's not as if anyone was going to go and ask him to have whatever he was holding!
I assume it's what I picked up when I was there on Thursday. It's just the same map you can get online on one side, and general information about the new facilities, a bit about the future, and a small "Timeline" on the other.
I'd have thought this can be done by making all the gates from 0-8 exit only, so then you could still come in via the exit only (how can they stop you otherwise? Turnstiles?!) but wouldn't be able to get to the platforms without walking around the side to the new entrance. Or jumping the pretty low fence to the left of the gatelines (where there's a gate that presumably can be opened in emergencies).
Edit: Just realised transmanche said much the same a while ago. Sorry!
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I spoke with a few of those people today (all clearly identifiable by the large "19" on their tee-shirts (referring to the date 19th March).
Anyway, I enjoyed some of the chat, with a little irony on my part, as they were contracted to be on duty for alloted hours, distibuting information leaflets (and have been doing so for a few days), and I was able to point out to them some of the structural features, including 2 of the artificial owls just a few meters from where they stood, but which they'd never noticed!
All good, and I'm sure it will be great.
I'm equally sure that if it isn't, then this forum may be the best informed place to discuss it!
Owls?
transmanche
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Presumably to keep the pigeons away.
Have to remember to move/replace them every now and then, or the Pigeons will cotton on.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
The original frontage, at ground level, is essentially 2 rows 6 brick arches. The 3 arches on the eastern side face plats 0 - 5, and the 3 on the western side face plats 6 - 8. The barriers are installed in the row of arches closest to the tracks.
The owls are between the two rows of arches, one owl is above the arch with the barriers in front of plat 4, at the western side of that arch; the other owl is above the arch with the barriers in front of plat 1, at the eastern side of that arch and to the south of the openeing that is the passage from York Way.
I expect they'll be removed when the brickwork is cleaned or when the facilities ducts are moved.
They haven't been moved for a long time, but other measures have been much more effective in keeping the pigeons out - it used to be quite busy with large low flying birds.
The new building is open today:-
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/KGX.html
Also interesting article/comments on http://www.londonreconnections.com/ website:-
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/the-london-terminals-kings-cross/
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/KGX.html
Also interesting article/comments on http://www.londonreconnections.com/ website:-
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/the-london-terminals-kings-cross/
amcluesent
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I expect their eyes are fitted with covert CCTV for counter-terrorism purposes
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
Some of us are in "The Parcel Yard", the big restaurant bar upstairs between platforms 8 and 9. Very impressive use of the original wooden panels and windows, with a few 'features' of its railway heritage. Plenty fine wooden tables, an assortement of old chairs and carpet rugs.
The new public address system on the platforms is particularly effective.
The new public address system on the platforms is particularly effective.
GNER 91128
Member
What are the prices like in The Parcel Yard?
Have they got Honeydew on the pumps?
Have they got Honeydew on the pumps?
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