Kings Cross - New station

[Bungle73]

I thought the bridge was supposed to be the main route, which is why they had to rebuild it and install lifts and escalators, and to keep departing passengers separated from those arriving?

 

[jon0844]

Whatever the plans, time will tell how they get used. If commuters wise up, or how people walk around the station (depending on how they enter).

Planners can very often get this VERY wrong indeed!

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the bridge was supposed to be the main route, which is why they had to rebuild it and install lifts and escalators, and to keep departing passengers separated from those arriving?

No it definitely isn't the main route.

The main route is, and always has been, immediately to the south of the new ticket office, on the ground floor.

This is clearly shown in both NR's and EC's recently published online information:

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/global/news stories/kings_cross_map_march2012.pdf

...but has been known for a number of years, and has been discussed in this forum on quite a few previous occasions.

 

[amcluesent]

I thought the bridge was supposed to be the main route...

For FC pax coming out the lounge.

 

[swt_passenger]

For FC pax coming out the lounge.

Interesting point that raises, is that FC pax will normally have to turn back at the bottom of the escalators towards the front of the train, and will then clash with other pax coming from the buffer stop end. To that extent, it seems a weird choice of location for the FC lounge.

Maybe the trains will have to be turned round?

 

[jon0844]

It might make sense to put first class at the country end of the station, although upon arrival the idea is that people will walk out of the station via the arrivals bit (the old bit), skipping the main concourse (and lounge).

That does make me wonder, wouldn't the retailers in the main concourse want people to be arriving and then going out via their outlets, instead of straight outside?

 

[YorkshireRider]

The claim that alighting passengers and boarding ones are kept apart is only true as far as entering the station and ticket barriers is concerned however if a busy train has just arrived in platform 1-8 and a busy train is boarding on plat 0 there is still going to be problems. In fact it could be worse as at prescent the worse situation is when groups of passengers go head on with each other but when they have to cross each other in different directions with lots of luggage, trips and accidents can happen.

 

[jon0844]

There certainly isn't loads of room once you go through the gates, and it's a good point that now everyone is coming from the side - instead of via their respective 'Q' lanes.

 

[D1009]

There certainly isn't loads of room once you go through the gates, and it's a good point that now everyone is coming from the side - instead of via their respective 'Q' lanes.

Are they going to have a similar queuing system in the new concourse ?

 

[David Goddard]

Are they going to have a similar queuing system in the new concourse ?

And make it look like a school playground with nine wiggly lines weaving their way round the concourse.

Biggest recipe for disaster will be when a packed service arrives into P8 and disgorges its load at the same time as the platform is declared for a heavily used outgoing service from a lower numbered platform.

 

[jon0844]

Are they going to have a similar queuing system in the new concourse ?

How could they?

A lot of the gates are in front of the platforms (as they are positioned now) and will presumably be set to exit only - given the plans to have that as the arrivals area. There's no easy way to get to them to go in if you're on the concourse anyway, unless you've come upstairs from the Underground.

So you'd be coming from the side, so you'll all be going in the same way to begin with.

When they put in the gates from platform 0-5, they took ages to even come up with the blocked off area to let people walk by the crowds. I do wonder what level of testing and planning they've put into what may or may not happen when it opens. Still, if it's a disaster then it will give the media something to moan about!

 

[transmanche]

There certainly isn't loads of room once you go through the gates, and it's a good point that now everyone is coming from the side - instead of via their respective 'Q' lanes.

Are they going to have a similar queuing system in the new concourse ?

I don't think the queue lanes at KGX have actually been used for years now. They've just left people to mill around until the platform is announced.

 

[D1009]

I don't think the queue lanes at KGX have actually been used for years now. They've just left people to mill around until the platform is announced.

That's what happens under normal circumstances, but there must be some sort of queuing system on the frequent occasions when there is disruption. I was wondering how the new concourse will handle this ?

 

[jon0844]

I don't think the queue lanes at KGX have actually been used for years now. They've just left people to mill around until the platform is announced.

I'm sure I've seen 'Q5' on the boards more recently than a few years ago, and have to admit that the very first time I saw that on the screens I was a little confused.

Perhaps they did stop the queue thing as soon as the gates were installed, but that certainly wasn't years ago.

 

[transmanche]

I'm sure I've seen 'Q5' on the boards more recently than a few years ago, and have to admit that the very first time I saw that on the screens I was a little confused.

Perhaps they did stop the queue thing as soon as the gates were installed, but that certainly wasn't years ago.

Well the queues used to have letters and not numbers. And the last time I saw them used was back in the day when they put up yellow boards at the head of the queue, listing the train and calling points. (This was long before they replaced the boards a the platform entrances with electronic ones.) TBH I'd say it was the best part of 10 years ago.

 

[jon0844]

Yes they did (do) have letters, not numbers - sorry!

It certainly wasn't ten years ago though. It was likely before the gates went in though as I doubt it could work now. I've even been on a service that has been using the queuing system, but didn't queue because I had reserved seats and simply came back later.

 

[91101]

The queuing system was pretty much done away with when the gates were installed.

 

[transmanche]

but didn't queue because I had reserved seats and simply came back later.

And TBH the increase in advance tickets (with compulsory reservations) probably negates the need for a queue lane altogether. Whereas back in the day far more people had unreserved tickets, so a queue lane was the only way to manage the scrum.

 

[jon0844]

Until you get on a train where there have been earlier delays, and they've just announced that reservations are cancelled - and now you've got no way to chuck someone out of your seat!

That nearly happened to me on my last EC journey, but luckily we boarded first (I knew which platform my train was going to be, so was already waiting outside the train as it was being cleaned for turnaround). Other people in our carriage weren't so lucky and stood all the way to York.

Mind you, they declassified first class on the same train so if I'd known that in time, I'd have 'upgraded!'!!

 

[Deerfold]

Well the queues used to have letters and not numbers. And the last time I saw them used was back in the day when they put up yellow boards at the head of the queue, listing the train and calling points. (This was long before they replaced the boards a the platform entrances with electronic ones.) TBH I'd say it was the best part of 10 years ago.

I've certainly seen them used in the past year - but before the gates were introduced. I think it was usually on Friday.

Of course usually they didn't actually announce what you were supposed to do (or they did, but it was 15-20 minutes before the train departure time and wasn't repeated) so you had loads of people milling around wondering where Platform QC was.

 

[stut]

It also relied on passengers respecting the queue system and not, say, hanging around the platform waiting for the hordes to approach.

I suspect those days are sadly gone.

 

[amcluesent]

I suspect those days are sadly gone.

Yep. Too many pax with smartphone apps which have the platform info before it comes up on the big board.

 

[Deerfold]

Yep. Too many pax with smartphone apps which have the platform info before it comes up on the big board.

Which does raise the question as to why the national rail site often has the information before it's on the sign. I use this myself just to make sure I'm waiting on the right side 1-5 or 6+

 

[stut]

Probably something of a moot point now the new concourse is about to open, but the system they use at some Parisian stations, where they tell you the group of platforms a train is going to leave from, when they don't want to announce the platform just yet (to avoid overcrowding), would have been rather handy.

 

[swt_passenger]

Which does raise the question as to why the national rail site often has the information before it's on the sign. I use this myself just to make sure I'm waiting on the right side 1-5 or 6+

Perhaps the info on the concourse screens is automatically overridden to allow for the cleaners to finish preparing the train, and for putting out reservations etc before the rush starts.

 

[tsr]

Perhaps the info on the concourse screens is automatically overridden to allow for the cleaners to finish preparing the train, and for putting out reservations etc before the rush starts.

For short-to-medium-distance services at other stations, this surely doesn't necessarily apply.

An example at a different station is London Victoria, where about 25% of the time the platforms appear to be announced before the trains have so much as entered them, and 25% of the time they are not announced until maybe 2-3 minutes (or fewer) before the scheduled departure. It's normally timed quite well the rest of the time.

The most ludicrous example was one evening last year when extreme disruption had just started to occur and nobody was sure when any trains would be departing, let alone to which destinations. The 1649 VIC-REI departure was shown as "Delayed" and "Platform -" until the exact minute when it was meant to leave, and then the platform was indicated and several thousand people simultaneously left the main concourse and ran to the Sussex platforms (having been prevented from entering this area). About a third of the prospective passengers didn't make it into the crowded vestibules of an 8-car 377, and were bounced back onto the platform by the closing doors as the train left without any delay! The train was still absolutely rammed, though.

I feel that when there are no major platform alterations, London Bridge manages surprisingly well.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps the info on the concourse screens is automatically overridden to allow for the cleaners to finish preparing the train, and for putting out reservations etc before the rush starts.

I often hear the staff on the ground radioing control to put up the platform on the signs, so it's definitely something they can control - yet the online systems often show the platform already.

Mind you, when they were doing all the work you regularly found that what you had on your app turned out to be wrong, so I guess the app was showing the booked platform and was often changed. Once the correct platform was put on the screens, a refresh of the app data usually corrected it (not always, but more often than not).

If there are trains on, say, platform 9a and 9b, it's nearly always the case that the train that is not yet ready for boarding will be hidden until the front set has departed.

Today I noticed at King's Cross that the new screens in front of platforms 9, 10 and 11 now have two sections to show the respective a and b parts of the platform. What I thought was odd is that my train, the 1136 to Peterborough, showed up on both sections! It was only a 4-car train, and it looked weird to have 1136 PETERBOROUGH with the stopping pattern scrolling underneath, then the exact same information showing again!

 

[EM2]

I can't speak for KGX specifically, but in general, the train will be diagrammed to leave from a particular platform, which is what the apps will show.
But the screens will show the platform when the train is ready to board. That means it's been cleaned, reservations are in place, the kitchen/buffet is stocked (or the trolley is on), the water tanks are filled if necessary.

 

[PTF62]

Too many pax with smartphone apps which have the platform info before it comes up on the big board.

I wonder if they have given any thought that regular commuters will wait the train side of the barriers for platforms 0 to 8, or will wait on the bridge, until their phone gives the platform.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I can't speak for KGX specifically, but in general, the train will be diagrammed to leave from a particular platform, which is what the apps will show.
But the screens will show the platform when the train is ready to board. That means it's been cleaned, reservations are in place, the kitchen/buffet is stocked (or the trolley is on), the water tanks are filled if necessary.

That is not how Kings Cross operates when there is even the slightest disruption. Staff are frequently kept waiting near the buffer stops for advice on which physical set will operate the service they're working (and of course passengers are kept waiting too). In even moderate disruption, the turnaround times are reduced to 12 or 15 mins and a decision as to which set operates the outgoing service may, exceptionally, even be made during that brief time.