Just how are train fares worked out?

[suzanneparis]

Birmingham to London seems to be a greater distance than Leicester to London. I just checked online. Or am I missing something.

And I can leave earlier for less money on Chiltern, which to me means a much better service as price and earliest departure for cheaper fares is my only consideration.

Additionally the return times from London to Leicester are restricted at peak times.

For example I can go from Birmingham to London on Monday return for £18-50 at good times, out at 08:54, return at 18:15

I cannot get anything like that service in terms of price and convenient times from Leicester to London.

So, I think we can only agree to disagree. In my opinion the Birmingham to London route is dramatically better value for money.

 

[Hadders]

I think it's also worth pointing out that your £18.50 return from Birmingham to London, whilst excellent value is restricted to London Midland trains only. These typically take an hour longer than the fastest (Virgin) trains that operate on this line and call at practically all stations.

LM have introduced these fares to encourage passengers to make end to end journeys with them. They have to be price competitive because time wise they cannot compete with Virgin.

Leicester has no similar operator to LM. If Thameslink were extended to operate to/from Leicester it is quite likely that they would introduce cheaper fares to fill capacity on their trains. The price would have to take account of the far slower journey time that these trains would take.

 

[suzanneparis]

The slower times don't bother me in the slightest. I LOVE travelling by train.

So, as I say, for me the Birmingham to London route offers far better value for money than from Leicester to London.
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An additional point is that if you wait on Leicester station in the morning for the first of the cheap return trains to London you will see a train go through which is not full. Obviously my evidence is limited but I have seen this several times.

Additionally, I once had to travel on one of the more expensive trains with my daughter and we had the carriage to ourselves. And in total on the train there could not have been more than 50 people. Surely it would make business sense to fill the train with cheaper ticket holders?

Likewise later in the day when many trains are not full. Why not adjust prices to tempt customers?

 

[Haywain]

So, I think we can only agree to disagree. In my opinion the Birmingham to London route is dramatically better value for money.

I don't think anyone disagreed with the difference in value for money. However, in any market place the main driver of lower pricing is competition and Leicester to London doesn't have that while Birmingham to London, by contrast, does.

 

[suzanneparis]

Thanks Haywain.

That's a very interesting point which I had't fully taken on board.

Why doesn't the government allow/encourage competition on the L to L line??

 

[mikeg]

Because the idea was to have one TOC operate the line in an integrated manner. Also, with Birmingham to London, competition naturally arises. There are two lines (The Chiltern Main Line and the West Coast Main Line), whereas Leicester to London there is just one (the Midland Main Line). In addition, there is a stopping service operated by a different TOC on the WCML, whereas on the MML the location of Leicester with reference to existing services doesn't necessitate a stopping service in quite the manner of London Midland.

So any competition on the Midland Main Line would probably have to be contrived at the expense of integrated travel planning. It's a fine balance between the two, and although the two are not always mutually exclusive the very nature of the railway limits competition naturally. Which is why we have regulated fares. If there were a way of making competition on the railway universal, it would have been done a long time ago and would have enabled the government to do away with price controls, most likely.

 

[telstarbox]

I think it's also worth pointing out that your £18.50 return from Birmingham to London, whilst excellent value is restricted to London Midland trains only. These typically take an hour longer than the fastest (Virgin) trains that operate on this line and call at practically all stations.

LM have introduced these fares to encourage passengers to make end to end journeys with them. They have to be price competitive because time wise they cannot compete with Virgin.

And extending this further, coaches are generally cheaper than trains on the same routes because they are also slower.

Currently there are Megabus tickets from London to Leicester tomorrow for £7 and £16.

BTW Suzanne, there are also 'Megatrain' tickets between Leicester and London which are for EMT trains, but they undercut the standard EMT fares if you're not aware. These have to be booked via www.megabus.com. So although there is only one train there are two 'operators' competing to sell you seats on it. :roll:

Tomorrow there are Megatrain singles from £22 each way.

 

[suzanneparis]

I often check megatrain fares and they are not always cheaper. Perhaps I am doing something wrong??

Not sure that I agree with you about coaches. We are talking about trains. Coach travel is something else.

Whatever your arguments about different lines on the B to L service we can't get away from the fact that Birmingham to London offers better value for money! End of! No matter what the reasons, it's better value for money. And I would much much rather have slower cheaper trains from L to L rather than the current arrangement.

 

[Tibbs]

How are fares decided?

 

[suzanneparis]

You say '... there are megatrain singles from £22 each way...'

???

That is hugely more than the £18-50 return from Birmingham. And is even more than the return from L to L with my railcard. So why on earth do you imagine that I want to pay £44 return ? I don't see the point you are making.

 

[telstarbox]

I often check megatrain fares and they are not always cheaper. Perhaps I am doing something wrong??

Not sure that I agree with you about coaches. We are talking about trains. Coach travel is something else.

Coaches, trains and the car industry all compete in the market for moving people betwen the two city centres. The fact that two run on roads and one runs on rails isn't that significant. The more significant factors are the direct cost, indirect cost, journey time and passenger comfort.

 

[suzanneparis]

My mistake. I thought we were discussing trains as this is 'railforums'.