JPT Travel

[Ant158]

All am able to confirm is the last couple of days JPT Buses have been getting their fuel from Stagecoach Middleton Depot

Came across these pictures earlier by 8860Brian on flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/70966383@N03/13947411416

Who would have thought years ago that JPT buses would be seen in the Bluebird depot!

 

[jp4712]

I managed to photograph a couple yesterday while I could. I'll say no more than 'see what turns up at the weekend'.

Click for full size.


JPT 501 (H159BKH), Charlestown, Manchester, April 2014 by jp4712, on Flickr


JPT 516 (S156KNK), Crumpsall, Manchester, April 2014 by jp4712, on Flickr


JPT 515 (S148KNK), North Manchester General Hospital, April 2014 by jp4712, on Flickr

 

[cainebj]

It's now official, Stagecoach are taking over JPT services tomorrow, 26th April. Service registrations are on VOSA today.

A summary:
54 Belle Vue to Trafford Park
088 Manchester to Higher Blackley
098 Bury to Manchester
118 Manchester to North Manchester Greater Hospital
156 Middleton to Manchester
276 West Didsbury - Trafford General Hospital
294 Langley - Trafford Park
343 Hyde - Oldham
169 Southern Cemetery - Manchester
217 Mancehster - Droylsden.

1 Manchester - Heaton Park (effective 7th June)

Plus 13 school services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I managed to photograph a couple yesterday while I could. I'll say no more than 'see what turns up at the weekend'.

Click for full size.


JPT 501 (H159BKH), Charlestown, Manchester, April 2014 by jp4712, on Flickr

How long did they operate using the green and white livery ? It is much less garish than the blue and yellow livery.

 

[Ant158]

How long did they operate using the green and white livery ? It is much less garish than the blue and yellow livery.

It was only this bus in this livery, a last minute introduction to the fleet.

 

[mbonwick]

Surprising precisely noone, Stagecoach are taking on JPT services from tomorrow.

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/tis-service-update-details.aspx?id=1695

Stagecoach would like to take this opportunity to welcome our new customers in North Manchester and other areas served by JP Travel services.
There will be some changes to the buses, passenger information and ticket range, as we work behind the scenes to make JP Travel part of the Stagecoach Manchester operation.

 

[Surreyman]

Surprising precisely noone, Stagecoach are taking on JPT services from tomorrow.

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/tis-service-update-details.aspx?id=1695

So, If I have understood correctly:-
1. JPT have 'closed down' (exact legal/financial status to be confirmed).
2. Stagecoach Manchester will be operating their routes, presumably a mix of Commercial & TfGM contracts (The latter I would guess on a 'short term' basis?)
3. Stagecoach have not acquired JPT in the sense of taking over the company.
4. JPT Vehicles will be disposed of (sold or scrapped).
5. JPT staff are presumably being made redundant? - Could any transfer to S/C under TUPE?

 

[mbonwick]

JPT are still running in a business sense, just not running bus services.
The sale of the vehicles will balance the books and the company will then close formally (I would think).

Point 3 is correct - Stagecoach are only taking on the services for the nominal sum of £1. Staff will be protected under TUPE.

 

[Qwerty133]

So, If I have understood correctly:-
1. JPT have 'closed down' (exact legal/financial status to be confirmed).
2. Stagecoach Manchester will be operating their routes, presumably a mix of Commercial & TfGM contracts (The latter I would guess on a 'short term' basis?)
3. Stagecoach have not acquired JPT in the sense of taking over the company.
4. JPT Vehicles will be disposed of (sold or scrapped).
5. JPT staff are presumably being made redundant? - Could any transfer to S/C under TUPE?

It doesn't mention any changes to staffing, so the drivers may have been kept on, alternatively it could just be to stop people thinking about it in that way, but would stagecoach really have enough drivers that would otherwise be sitting there doing nothing to drive the buses?

 

[mbonwick]

I take that back, it now appears vehicles are included in the £1.

How many will live to see Stagecoach fleetnumbers is another matter...

 

[BurtonM]

So, another usurped by one of the big two. Who's next?

 

[mbonwick]

JPT were entirely in control of their own demise. Nothing to do with pressure from the big boys.

 

[Surreyman]

I take that back, it now appears vehicles are included in the £1.

How many will live to see Stagecoach fleetnumbers is another matter...

Would be nice to see the E300s in Stagecoach ownership and livery

 

[mbonwick]

Think it might be a case of wait and see with the vehicles - word is that the newer ones will be returned the leasing company.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Apparently one of the E300's is undergoing Repaint at Hyde Road, Anyone able to confirm this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Am Able to Confrim JPT Enviro 300 455 is getting repainted!

 

[Surreyman]

So, another usurped by one of the big two. Who's next?

More to come I am sure, although competition issues will prevent many.
It's the 'patch work quilt' syndrome i.e a big company cannot take over another bus company thats 'in' or 'next door' to one of it operating subsidiaries.
Of course many independents just operate tendered routes, so when they go 'belly-up' the councils just award the tenders to other operators.
Works the other way though, i.e Arriva have pulled out of rural central Wales and left it to the independents.
I am still hoping we see First cut back/retreat in Devon/Cornwall and parts of central Scotland.

 

[Volvodart]

I am still hoping we see First cut back/retreat in Devon/Cornwall and parts of central Scotland.

We all know your bias by now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We all know your bias by now.

We definitely do that (yawn)

 

[northwichcat]

It's now official, Stagecoach are taking over JPT services tomorrow, 26th April. Service registrations are on VOSA today.

A summary:
54 Belle Vue to Trafford Park
088 Manchester to Higher Blackley
098 Bury to Manchester
118 Manchester to North Manchester Greater Hospital
156 Middleton to Manchester
276 West Didsbury - Trafford General Hospital
294 Langley - Trafford Park
343 Hyde - Oldham
169 Southern Cemetery - Manchester
217 Mancehster - Droylsden.

1 Manchester - Heaton Park (effective 7th June)

Plus 13 school services.

So what is the actual agreement between Stagecoach and JPT? If Stagecoach had purchased JPT I would have thought the existing registrations and operating licence would have transferred without needing to put in new emergency registrations.

 

[cainebj]

So what is the actual agreement between Stagecoach and JPT? If Stagecoach had purchased JPT I would have thought the existing registrations and operating licence would have transferred without needing to put in new emergency registrations.

You can't transfer a "personal license", have to apply for a new one. In this case Stagecoach have, I believe, used some slack in their existing license to operate service 118 from Hyde Road, and used the spare capacity from Middleton's authorisation, though I'm not 100% sure if they may have had their authorisation increased. Middleton depot has an authorisation for 60 vehicles, running a PVR of 44. Likewise Hyde Road depot has an authorisation for 210 vehicles, running a PVR of 171 with 191 vehicles.

The reason given by VOSA, as they were at the time, is you cannot buy a person as you would have in the case of a sole trader, or persons in the case of a partnership, so you're buying assets off that person/persons. If the company was still JP Travel Ltd as it used to be then the license would have transferred. It was the same when Stagecoach bought Bluebird, it was a personal license held by Michael Dunstan, so Stagecoach applied to add a new operating centre to their existing license.

 

[radamfi]

I can see why it is strategically useful for Stagecoach to register the services, but could any other company have registered JPT's services, such as First? Surely First can't be too happy about this as it will further strengthen Stagecoach's position in Middleton and North Manchester? Maybe First didn't have enough slack in their existing licence? Was there some kind of bidding system that Stagecoach won?

 

[Shrimper]

Stagecoach will also be taking over the evening 312 services not previously mentioned, though this will go down as an amendment as they already operate the daytime service.

 

[Robertj21a]

I can see why it is strategically useful for Stagecoach to register the services, but could any other company have registered JPT's services, such as First? Surely First can't be too happy about this as it will further strengthen Stagecoach's position in Middleton and North Manchester? Maybe First didn't have enough slack in their existing licence? Was there some kind of bidding system that Stagecoach won?

Perhaps in a darkened room - about 10 days ago ?

Robert

 

[Y961 XBU]

First may still retaliate yet as they was seen route learning the 118 and 156 services

 

[northwichcat]

First Group have invaded the former GM Buses South area by taking over Finglands. With Stagecoach also purchasing Bluebird and Wigan operations from First Group, you can't really still say that First Group's area is North Manchester and Stagecoach's area is South Manchester.

I wonder if either First or Stagecoach will start bidding for the Cheshire East tendered services which serve Greater Manchester e.g. 130 Macclesfield-Manchester, 88 Altrincham-Knutsford via Wilmslow, 289 Altrincham-Northwich and 200 Wilmslow-Manchester Airport.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Works the other way though, i.e Arriva have pulled out of rural central Wales and left it to the independents.

Arriva have also withdrawn services in Cheshire with Wrexham based GHA Coaches picking up a lot of the routes Arriva no longer wanted/lost the tenders for.

In Huddersfield you have a situation where an independent operator (Yorkshire Traction) was purchased by Stagecoach, who then sold the West Yorks operations to a Centrebus company (with financial backing from Arriva) and then Arriva bought out the operations but trade under a non-Arriva name (Yorkshire Tiger.)

 

[KendalKing]

First Group have invaded the former GM Buses South area by taking over Finglands. With Stagecoach also purchasing Bluebird and Wigan operations from First Group, you can't really still say that First Group's area is North Manchester and Stagecoach's area is South Manchester.

Don't forget that Stagecoach took-over Bluebird, which was with-in First territory, some 14-months before First took-over Finglands. So if anybody, is invading somebodies else territory then its Stagecoach.

I can see why it is strategically useful for Stagecoach to register the services

By Stagecoach registering JPT routes under they own operator licence, this is then viewed as an expansion of Stagecoach current network, and not a take-over. So the OFT does not get involved.

 

[northwichcat]

Don't forget that Stagecoach took-over Bluebird, which was with-in First territory, some 14-months before First took-over Finglands. So if anybody, is invading somebodies else territory then its Stagecoach.

I mentioned in the Stagecoach Bluebird takeover in the post you were responding to! I also said First Bus have invaded the former GM Buses South area, not Stagecoach's area.

 

[KendalKing]

I mentioned in the Stagecoach Bluebird takeover in the post you were responding to! I also said First Bus have invaded the former GM Buses South area, not Stagecoach's area.

Just what have you got against First ?

As I have already said "Don't forget that Stagecoach took-over Bluebird, which was with-in First territory, some 14-months before First took-over Finglands."

Stagecoach Manchester is the trading name GM Buses South Ltd.

 

[mbonwick]

By Stagecoach registering JPT routes under they own operator licence, this is then viewed as an expansion of Stagecoach current network, and not a take-over. So the OFT does not get involved.

Incorrect. Bluebird services were also registered on the Stagecoach licence.

The reason is that both Bluebird and JPT had single person licences, in the name of their owner, not the company. VOSA reason that you can't buy a person, so the services have to change licence.

 

[northwichcat]

Stagecoach Manchester is the trading name GM Buses South Ltd.

So? I said 'former GM Buses South area' meaning the area that used to have buses saying GM Buses South on them. You're twisting what I'm saying to make it sound like I'm anti-First Group and pro-Stagecoach. Do you not know the meaning of the word 'former'?

The names of limited companies used by bus operators don't mean anything to a lot of people - say Green Triangle Buses Limited to most South Lancs Travel bus users and they won't have a clue what you're on about.

The general tone of the thread was whether First would retaliate by taking on Stagecoach for going in to 'their area' by taking on the JPT routes, so I pointed out that First have deviated outside of 'their area' already because 'their area' was the former GM Buses North area and they are now operating in the former GM Buses South area.