Issues with Stadler flirt trains

[WillA12]

Some features on flirt trains are not good for how new they are
e.g
Accessible doors- 3x buttons Toilet door , disabled exit and door open- too near to each other all mixed up easily
Raised seats- GA Conductor Declan had to help a passenger after falling off the raised seating
Toilets-Not well signed and not much space to walk past as they have two next to each other on 755s
Disabled area-Not much space in my opinion

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

HOW IS THIS OK FOR NEWER TRAINS!

 

[Sunil_P]

Also, just one door on each side per carriage?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, just one door on each side per carriage?

The vehicles are shorter than the normal 24-26m. Thus one wide door gives you a similar amount of door per unit bodyside as a 26m end doored intercity train.

If we want level boarding, internal ramps and raised seating are the tradeoff.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Also, just one door on each side per carriage?

That's a choice the orderer can make, the 756s have 2 doors on each side of most of their carriages

 

[Sunil_P]

The vehicles are shorter than the normal 24-26m. Thus one wide door gives you a similar amount of door per unit bodyside as a 26m end doored intercity train.

If we want level boarding, internal ramps and raised seating are the tradeoff.

A 3-car 755/3 is 65 metres long but only three doors on each side.
A 4-car 755/4 is 81 metres long but only four doors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A 3-car 755/3 is 65 metres long but only three doors on each side.
A 4-car 755/4 is 81 metres long but only four doors.

The passenger accommodation in a 3 car 755 is only 18+16+18m long, a total of 52m, or roughly the length of a two car 26m unit. The Stadler has 6 door leaves, the 26m end doored unit would have only four.

That both leaves are together is really not relevant - it's the amount of egress per unit length.

 

[Sunil_P]

And a 12-car 745 is [checks notes] 237 metres long with only 12 doors on each side!

 

[DanNCL]

And a 12-car 745 is [checks notes] 237 metres long with only 12 doors on each side!

Which is 24 door leaves, 6/7* more than on a 9-car 800 which is almost exactly the same length. (*depending if you count the usually crew only door in the first class vehicle or not)

 

[Bletchleyite]

And a 12-car 745 is [checks notes] 237 metres long with only 12 doors on each side!

24 door leaves. As against only 20 passenger door leaves on a 265m 11 car Pendolino.

 

[D365]

worth bearing in mind that the Greater Anglia flirts are nominally built to an ”Inter-Regio” specification.

 

[RunRepeat]

And a 12-car 745 is [checks notes] 237 metres long with only 12 doors on each side!

I use these several times a week, both 745 & 755 and believe me, there really is no issue whatsoever, entry and egress is swift and smooth on all units.

 

[stuu]

24 door leaves. As against only 20 passenger door leaves on a 265m 11 car Pendolino.

Wouldn't a 350/377 be a better comparison for the sort of journey they do? In which case they have half as many doors

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't a 350/377 be a better comparison for the sort of journey they do?

Not really. London-Norwich is like London-Birmingham fast (390, 221 or 80x), whereas the regionals are like what you'd use a 156 or a pair of 153s on elsewhere. All end doored units.

The single door is a problem on Merseyrail (this was an awful piece of design, and they ended up not needing it as they extended platforms anyway) but Merseyrail should simply have specced two door openings per vehicle.

 

[dk1]

You have to remember that they are in 3 & 4 car variants, the 3-cars have no coach B. The disabled area and toilets needed to be in one of the centre cars to ensure they are on all platforms except Berney Arms and Spooner Row which cannot be accommodated.

 

[306024]

I use these several times a week, both 745 & 755 and believe me, there really is no issue whatsoever, entry and egress is swift and smooth on all units.

Me too, quite agree. I did once press the toilet door button to get off the train, but it hasn't ruined my life. These trains generated a huge amount of positivity when they were introduced, but you can't please all the people all the time.

 

[800001]

Some features on flirt trains are not good for how new they are
e.g
Accessible doors- 3x buttons Toilet door , disabled exit and door open- too near to each other all mixed up easily
Raised seats- GA Conductor Declan had to help a passenger after falling off the raised seating
Toilets-Not well signed and not much space to walk past as they have two next to each other on 755s
Disabled area-Not much space in my opinion

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

HOW IS THIS OK FOR NEWER TRAINS!

First of all, don’t use capitals, it’s shouting!

Door buttons on toilet all clearly indicated no issue.

Raised seats - people can fall at any point on train, I’ve travelled these hundreds of times and seen no issue (probably no more accidents on these than other trains). This issues with raised areas are, these are the first type of train in uk to have raised floor, however first time I used raised area, I remembered I had stepped up, so knew I had to step down!

Disabled area space to me seems very similar to other types of train, and they have level boarding and easy access to toilets - to me no issues.

 

[dk1]

First of all, don’t use capitals, it’s shouting!

Door buttons on toilet all clearly indicated no issue.

Raised seats - people can fall at any point on train, I’ve travelled these hundreds of times and seen no issue (probably no more accidents on these than other trains). This issues with raised areas are, these are the first type of train in uk to have raised floor, however first time I used raised area, I remembered I had stepped up, so knew I had to step down!

Disabled area space to me seems very similar to other types of train, and they have level boarding and easy access to toilets - to me no issues.

Exactly. The pros more than outweigh the cons with this excellent fleet of trains.

 

[stuu]

Not really. London-Norwich is like London-Birmingham fast (390, 221 or 80x), whereas the regionals are like what you'd use a 156 or a pair of 153s on elsewhere. All end doored units.

They spend a lot of the time going to Stansted too. But obviously with wider doors and big vestibules they are still going to be quicker to clear than something with end doors

 

[Bletchleyite]

They spend a lot of the time going to Stansted too. But obviously with wider doors and big vestibules they are still going to be quicker to clear than something with end doors

StanEx is probably the oddity, personally I'd refit them all to the IC interior so all Norwich services are FLIRTs and use 720s on that.

 

[Haywain]

Like some others I have pressed the wrong button when trying to exit a FLIRT but it wastes a whole second or two, so isn't worth fretting about. The only downside of the design/fitting out of the GA trains is the placing of flip up seats in the doorways, which can cause unnecessary congestion. Other than that I concur with others who think they are excellent trains that are well suited to the main duties they carry out.

 

[800001]

Like some others I have pressed the wrong button when trying to exit a FLIRT but it wastes a whole second or two, so isn't worth fretting about. The only downside of the design/fitting out of the GA trains is the placing of flip up seats in the doorways, which can cause unnecessary congestion. Other than that I concur with others who think they are excellent trains that are well suited to the main duties they carry out.

And the 80X suffer from that the accessible toilet, and I’ve done many a time.

 

[ac6000cw]

A 3-car 755/3 is 65 metres long but only three doors on each side.
A 4-car 755/4 is 81 metres long but only four doors.

The passenger accommodation in a 3 car 755 is only 18+16+18m long, a total of 52m, or roughly the length of a two car 26m unit.

In reality, the usable passenger accommodation length is about the same in both the articulated cars and the end cars, as the latter have non-passenger space behind the cabs (for electrical equipment, AFAIK). Losing passenger space like that is the price paid for having low-floor level boarding, but as someone who uses them regularly IMHO it's well worth paying - they've transformed both the perception and the reality of regional train travel in East Anglia (and the uplift in passenger loadings is very noticeable compared to the ragtag of 156s, 153s and 170s that preceded them).

 

[RunRepeat]

In reality, the usable passenger accommodation length is about the same in both the articulated cars and the end cars, as the latter have non-passenger space behind the cabs (for electrical equipment, AFAIK). Losing passenger space like that is the price paid for having low-floor level boarding, but as someone who uses them regularly IMHO it's well worth paying - they've transformed both the perception and the reality of regional train travel in East Anglia (and the uplift in passenger loadings is very noticeable compared to the ragtag of 156s, 153s and 170s that preceded them).

Agreed. The fear of waiting at Peterborough for the 17.51 Ipswich knowing that a 153 might turn up has gone!

 

[Railperf]

Yes. People quickly forget the horrendous rolling stock that the 755's replaced. Probably in both 745 and 755 versions, they are still the best new rolling stock in use on the UK network.

 

[RailWonderer]

Not really. London-Norwich is like London-Birmingham fast (390, 221 or 80x), whereas the regionals are like what you'd use a 156 or a pair of 153s on elsewhere. All end doored units.

The single door is a problem on Merseyrail (this was an awful piece of design, and they ended up not needing it as they extended platforms anyway) but Merseyrail should simply have specced two door openings per vehicle.

I don't use Merseryrail but is there really overcrowding? There is a 1-2-2-1 door per coach layout. The reason for the widths is a) the modularity of the design and 2) the coaches are shorter so it isn't too far to the next pair of doors in the next coach. All over Europe single doors per short coach are used on and they work fine. I think once passengers start learning where to stand you'll have less of a scrum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

Yes. People quickly forget the horrendous rolling stock that the 755's replaced. Probably in both 745 and 755 versions, they are still the best new rolling stock in use on the UK network.

+1.

 

[185143]

Yes. People quickly forget the horrendous rolling stock that the 755's replaced. Probably in both 745 and 755 versions, they are still the best new rolling stock in use on the UK network.

Exactly. They have revolutionised rail transport in the East of England, and that is absolutely no exaggeration. The 153s and 156s, as much as I'm a fan of them, really were in an absolutely shocking state out East. Plus the fact that there weren't anything like enough of them, leading to 37s and 68s being a thing to try and keep the service even remotely functional.

That being said, I was on a 755 earlier (on the London diagram, FWIW) which had a cracked luggage rack above my table. Given the location of said crack, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't a head that did that. I've seen a few people stand up and hit their heads on IETs too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't use Merseryrail but is there really overcrowding? There is a 1-2-2-1 door per coach layout. The reason for the widths is a) the modularity of the design and 2) the coaches are shorter so it isn't too far to the next pair of doors in the next coach.

Overcrowding no, but it does cause significant boarding/alighting delays.

All over Europe single doors per short coach are used on and they work fine.

Can you give me an example of single-door vehicles on an urban metro? I doubt it - normally you'd have three sets, not even two, except very short vehicles where you'd get two.

Single door FLIRTs are fine for intercity and regional services, they aren't for urban metros.

 

[dosxuk]

The passenger accommodation in a 3 car 755 is only 18+16+18m long, a total of 52m, or roughly the length of a two car 26m unit. The Stadler has 6 door leaves, the 26m end doored unit would have only four.

That both leaves are together is really not relevant - it's the amount of egress per unit length.

Door leaves is a rubbish method of measuring egress. Nobody would argue that a 158 is twice as way to get on / off than a 156 with half the number of door leaves

 

[Bletchleyite]

Door leaves is a rubbish method of measuring egress. Nobody would argue that a 158 is twice as way to get on / off than a 156 with half the number of door leaves

Metres of door aperture per unit bodyside (i.e. a ratio of door to not door in the passenger cabin) is probably the useful measure. And it'd still work if measured that way.

158s are an oddity with their half-width leaves. Most other door leaves are a similar width.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Overcrowding no, but it does cause significant boarding/alighting delays.

I've not seen it, tbh. Because the carriages are quite short it's not that far to the doors in the next carriage if you're sat in the 4-bay at the driving carriage inner end.

If you remember you can go that way, that is, which not everybody does.

I do think people are slowly getting used to the fact that you can easily walk between carriages in a way you really couldn't on the 507/508.