Is there such a thing as a Mixed Freight Anymore

[kermit]

?????

 

[jopsuk]

Yes, they're called container trains. Huge mix of stuff in them.

Almost no "traditional" mixed frights though, simply not economical to run in this day and age in this country.

 

[Eagle]

Almost no "traditional" mixed frights though, simply not economical to run in this day and age in this country.

Also of course it will all be going to/from different kinds of terminals as well, so the trains would have to join and split en-route, necessitating shunting in goods loops.

 

[stuartmoss]

I've just come back from Germany, and it is pleasing to see how much freight there still is on the rails, much of which is inter-modal.

 

[jopsuk]

Also of course it will all be going to/from different kinds of terminals as well, so the trains would have to join and split en-route, necessitating shunting in goods loops.

It would also require local trip-working to and from destinations from the major yards, eating up capacity on lines that are bursting at the seams.

 

[Legzr1]

Contrary to popular belief,there's still quite a bit of mixed freight running up and down the network with shunting taking place at various yards around the country.

Obviously,nowhere near the volumes of the 60's and 70's but to say it's non-existant is far of the mark.

 

[the sniper]

It's a shame wagon load freight didn't really work out here, whereas in Europe it still seems to live on to an extent. EWS seemed to give it a good go, but Enterprise seems to be all but dead now?

This was one of the remnants of Enterprise: http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/4887274139/in/photostream A sad remnant of what could have been... It's hard to believe this ran for a good few years as it can't have made any money?! Does anyone know if it still runs?

 

[Proud Salopian]

Plenty of mixed freight on the Swiss railways... it can be economical and efficient. (Indeed there are even mixed freight and passenger trains on the mountain lines!)

 

[Bald Rick]

Plenty of mixed freight on the Swiss railways... it can be economical and efficient. (Indeed there are even mixed freight and passenger trains on the mountain lines!)

Yes it's amazing how HGV road pricing can alter the economics of rail freight.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've just come back from Germany, and it is pleasing to see how much freight there still is on the rails, much of which is inter-modal.

and they split/join inter-modal trains using hump shunting, what a novel idea

 

[LE Greys]

We still get the occasional "odds and ends" train through Hitchin, including one that was half intermodal and half open wagons one day. Almost all EWS. I hope that DBS keep going with it.

Part of the problem might be the lack of anything smaller than a Type 5 available, a half-size 66 (perhaps a Class 38) might be more efficient.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Plenty of mixed freight on the Swiss railways... it can be economical and efficient. (Indeed there are even mixed freight and passenger trains on the mountain lines!)

Course it helps with a Swiss rail subsidy of over 60% .....We could have mixed trains at that level of funding.

I worked for Railfreight back in the 80's , and the Speedlink network was a huge loss maker , the trainferry service even worse (around a £1 of revenue left for the UK rail haul after shipping / port costs were met)

Quality of service was very variable also , and the traffic carried was very low rated in some cases - £80 for an OTA wagon of timber logs from any station on the West Highland section to Chirk.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Yes it's amazing how HGV road pricing can alter the economics of rail freight.

Course it helps with a Swiss rail subsidy of over 60% .....We could have mixed trains at that level of funding.

Yes the Swiss pay to have freight on the rails and the benefits are clear.

It is genuinely a pleasure to not have the roads full of lorries! Especially in the towns.

 

[kermit]

Thanks for the answers so far. So to be a bit more precise, in Britain, is there now in existence a regular mixed freight service, which is not an engineering train or an exceptional addition to a block working? If not, when was the last one?

 

[sprinterguy]

It seems to be principally DBS, formerly EWS, that still operate a selection of shorter mixed formation freights between yards, which are essentially remnants of the Speedlink and Enterprise networks. Similar mixed formations also run when wagons are being moved to and from wagon repair depots

 

[Jonny]

Mind you, a lot of the economic factors would change in favour of railfreight if road repair costs were allocated based upon how much wear is caused to the road

 

[9K43]

There seems to be mention of yards, EWS shut them all and got rid of the shunters and 350's to do it with.

 

[fgwrich]

It seems to be principally DBS, formerly EWS, that still operate a selection of shorter mixed formation freights between yards, which are essentially remnants of the Speedlink and Enterprise networks. Similar mixed formations also run when wagons are being moved to and from wagon repair depots

True!

There's still a fair amount of DBS Trip workings around the country - Eastleigh to Hoo / Hinksey / Didcot / Bescot and Willsden seem to be fairly common over this way, with DBS 66s running through Bas with formations such as 4 TTA Tanks, 4/5/6 MHAs and several FEAs, or TTA Tanks and YEA-Hs etc.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I've just come back from Germany, and it is pleasing to see how much freight there still is on the rails, much of which is inter-modal.

This has a lot to do with the fact that Germany's industrial output is far greater than our own, which in turn generates more freight traffic. Another significant factor is the amount of freight traffic that crosses international borders. In this country a lot of imports which are destined for the SE arrive into east coast ports and are then forwarded by road. Its not ecomical to run intermodal traffic over short distances.

 

[Legzr1]

There seems to be mention of yards, EWS shut them all and got rid of the shunters and 350's to do it with.

Not all but a fair few it has to be said.

The 350's are long gone but some yards still see a fair bit of shunting (Kingmoor,Tees Yard,Decoy up/down etc etc) using mainline loco's where available.

The guards are long gone but a few shunters remain.

Some of those that took voluntary redundancy have actually returned to the grade in the past couple of years.

Times are bad bit it ain't all doom & gloom

Thanks for the answers so far. So to be a bit more precise, in Britain, is there now in existence a regular mixed freight service, which is not an engineering train or an exceptional addition to a block working? If not, when was the last one?

There are quite a few!

Steel trains from Wales stop at Rotherham to drop off coil/steel and pick up various wagons.

The return journey takes down steel and limestone empties along with anything from Scotalnd (Dalziel?),backing into Rotherham for anything extra needed.

That is one train - there are quite a few others.

The last 'true' enterprise train must have been 5 years ago - Mossend-Tyne-Tees-Doncaster-and somewhere further south...and return.

 

[the sniper]

There seems to be mention of yards, EWS shut them all and got rid of the shunters and 350's to do it with.

I'm guessing you're not referring to 350s of the Siemens variety?

What's a 350?

 

[Hydro]

08 - so named as it has 350hp.

 

[the sniper]

08 - so named as it has 350hp.

Thanks Hydro.

 

[Yew]

Although intermodal freight with distributed traction could be interesting...

 

[HSTEd]

Although intermodal freight with distributed traction could be interesting...

Indeed, I believe they have trains using that concept on the narrow gauge network in Japan.
And there is always the CargoSprinter......

 

[jopsuk]

Indeed, I believe they have trains using that concept on the narrow gauge network in Japan.
And there is always the CargoSprinter......

As far as I can find out, they built two of the Japanses ones- hasn't exactly taken off.

And I belive that an aussie firm did take delivery of a CargoSprinter set for use on intermodal, but it didn't last long in service. Pretty sure they're only used elsewhere, as in britain, as modular departmantal vehicles.

Pity, the concept seems good.

 

[IanXC]

Didn't the 141s end up as Cargo Pacers?

 

[Flywaver]

I remember the Grainflow wagons in Anglia. Lots of Drivers tell me they had interesting trips on those. How many grain terminals were there?

 

[a good off]

The grainflow terminals I can remember being open (in no particular order) were:

Royston
Newmarket
Kennett
Downham Market
Whittlesford
Diss
Dereham
Eccles Road
Chettisham
King's Lynn
Sandy
Fulbourn

I think Fulbourn was one of the first to go. Makes 12 in total. Have I missed any?

 

[Oswyntail]

I have always wondered whether there could be an opportunity for cargosprinter traffic in the UK. So many old goods yards have had shopping complexes built on them, and yet each one of those stores has supplies delivered in a massively inappropriate lorry. By definition, many must still have a convenient rail connection possible, and a cargosprinter would be an ideal delivery method