Is there a minimum threshold for getting to the platform?

[Tibbs]

I tend to get on the nearest coach and walk along in this sort of situation if I think there's any danger of the train leaving without me.

Unfortunately getting through an LM train at rush hour is nigh-on impossible due to the number of people standing in the aisles.

 

[MKB]

i am a frequent user of Euston and on the infrequent time a train platform is announced late then I have rarely seen a manual ticket check before boarding.

There are surges when platforms are announced but I have never seen elderley or disabled people knocked over or even pushed aside.

Most trains are announced some 15-20mins before departure and if its a Virgin train final boarding is announced 5 minutes (not 3) before departure.

As another frequent user of Euston, usually at weekends, this is not a picture I recognise. Trains being announced at short notice is a frequent occurrence.

I've seen a man on crutches not make his train because by the time the melée had fought their way on -- the previous train having been cancelled -- there was no physical space. I've seen the same happen to elderly people. The people who check tickets there are generally an unpleasant bunch too in my experience.

You often get three or more Pendolinos' worth of passengers waiting in the main hall, and it can get quite squashed in there. When a late-running train then arrives and passengers hurry off, it can get positively dangerous.

I'm amazed Virgin have been allowed to run Euston this way for several years now.

The situation on Platform 7 at Liverpool Lime Street can get quite bad as well on the first train after a match. There's a complete lack of organisation there and the "queue", such as it is, can go as far back as far as the gents. They generally wait until about 8 minutes before the train is due to leave before letting people on to the platform proper, and then insist on doing a full ticket check with just two people, while another two look on idly.

 

[Komma]

I work at Euston and Euston station is run by Network Rail.
If the train is boarded with less than 10 minutes,then barrier staff are told not to check tickets.On the rare times they do barrier with less than 10 minutes,if they are doing so on my platform,I inform them of the lack of time for boarding and they stop.

 

[yorkie]

That is assuming the dispatcher has given the instruction to the guard to shut the doors. Reading previous comments, they would suggest this not to be the case and the dispatcher has not given the instruction so the doors are not forcefully being kept open.

Yes, when I did this at St Pancras, the dispatcher was going to try to give the right away to the train when it had only been boarding for a very short period of time and it was very clear that passengers did not have anywhere near enough time to board, though if this policy....

I work at Euston and Euston station is run by Network Rail.
If the train is boarded with less than 10 minutes,then barrier staff are told not to check tickets.On the rare times they do barrier with less than 10 minutes,if they are doing so on my platform,I inform them of the lack of time for boarding and they stop.

... had been adopted then it wouldn't have been a problem. The train was announced with maybe 3 minutes to go, this was an 'InterCity' category service and passengers were still having their tickets checked. I made it very clear to the dispatcher that people should be allowed to board and he relented.

It is good to hear that a sensible policy applies at Euston, it should apply at places like St Pancras too.

 

[sprinterguy]

i am a frequent user of Euston and on the infrequent time a train platform is announced late then I have rarely seen a manual ticket check before boarding.

There are surges when platforms are announced but I have never seen elderley or disabled people knocked over or even pushed aside.

Most trains are announced some 15-20mins before departure and if its a Virgin train final boarding is announced 5 minutes (not 3) before departure.

I commute through Euston every day and I can largely concur with these observations. Far removed from some of the "horror stories" (which no doubt do happen from time to time) that are being suggested as being the norm on this thread.

Mind you, the sudden rush of bodies forwards when a platform is first announced is quite disconcerting. I always hang back (on the rare occasions that I am on the concourse that far in advance of my train's departure time), as the only thing that rushing succeeds in doing is funnelling everyone into the ticket inspection, where a crowd forms.

 

[PR1Berske]

Euston is a mess, they have been running it like a badly run airport terminal for too long now. Trains should be open for boarding a minimum of 20 minutes before departure time, where possible. I have seen the scenario you mention about four or five times now and it's quite horrific to watch the elderly and disabled being pushed over in the mad scrum for the train. Other option would be to allow passengers to wait at platform level, although I agree this is not ideal at Euston.

I like the description of Euston as a "badly run airport terminal"

I'm only an occasional visitor but it's been like that every time. I've got a fair brisk walk on me so it's not a bother, but it shouldn't be the fact that people who are waiting for a train have to stare at a screen like worried traders, only to have 120 seconds to make it (often with bags) to either extreme of a very busy building.

I appreciate that Euston is busy, that the lines into the station are rarely without a service entering or leaving, but is it really the best they can do?

 

[Tibbs]

I work at Euston and Euston station is run by Network Rail.
If the train is boarded with less than 10 minutes,then barrier staff are told not to check tickets.On the rare times they do barrier with less than 10 minutes,if they are doing so on my platform,I inform them of the lack of time for boarding and they stop.

So out of interest, should someone who waited on the concourse as instructed miss his train because he couldn't walk fast enough to the platform before the train left, what would be done about it?

 

[island]

If a train door can't deal with a passenger holding it open, then it isn't fit for purpose.

Prevention is better than cure. Eliminate the need for people to hold doors open and they won't get damaged. Short of fining people for holding doors, you won't stop people doing it. Oh God, please don't tell me I've just given the TOCs yet another idea for a reveue stream... :roll:

I believe it is an offence for someone to hold a train door open.

Euston is a mess, they have been running it like a badly run airport terminal for too long now. Trains should be open for boarding a minimum of 20 minutes before departure time, where possible. I have seen the scenario you mention about four or five times now and it's quite horrific to watch the elderly and disabled being pushed over in the mad scrum for the train. Other option would be to allow passengers to wait at platform level, although I agree this is not ideal at Euston.

It gets particularly bad for the 1857 on a Friday.

Euston is terrible; trains announced between 5-10 minutes before departure then manual barrier checks to get onto the platform :roll:

What's annoying is Virgin had the platform allocations removed from NRE, so they know they can ease the problem, they're actively choosing not to.

You could just look them up on headcodes.info or similar sites.

 

[Komma]

So out of interest, should someone who waited on the concourse as instructed miss his train because he couldn't walk fast enough to the platform before the train left, what would be done about it?

This happened to me about an hour ago and I got the passenger on the next train before it was boarded and let the train manager know as she had an advanced ticket for the previous train.

 

[Tibbs]

This happened to me about an hour ago and I got the passenger on the next train before it was boarded and let the train manager know as she had an advanced ticket for the previous train.

Very interesting, thanks for letting me know.

 

[ainsworth74]

I believe it is an offence for someone to hold a train door open.

It is indeed a Byelaw offence:

11. General safety

(1) No person shall move, operate, obstruct, stop or in any other way interfere with any automatic closing door, train, or any other equipment on the railway except:

(i) in an emergency, by means of any equipment on or near which
there is a notice indicating that it is intended to be used in an
emergency; or
(ii) any equipment intended for the use of passengers in that way
in normal operating circumstances.

 

[cuccir]

It's fairly straightforward.

You ask for the assistance of an independent yet mobility impaired person, a wheelchair user and a visually impaired person. Set a stopwatch going and identify how long it takes them to reach the equivalent of the most distant Pendolino coach on the furthest platform from the main entrance to Euston at rush hour.

We now have a definitive "reasonable" time for a impaired person to reach their coach from the moment a train is first announced.

Where a "reasonable" time is not allowed, the relevant firms should be fined.

Agreed. A society should be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.

 

[Starmill]

It is good to hear that a sensible policy applies at Euston, it should apply at places like St Pancras too.

Personally, I really would not call Euston "sensible" - (or were you only talking about ticket checks, if so isn't St Pancras barriered? In which case not much to be done for it) rather, what is at Manchester Piccadilly is quite sensible. I appreciate that it's infrastructurally rather different, but this problem simply does not exist there!

And as for the cost of remodeling, just how much has St Pancras had spent on it in the past decade? And they STILL have this problem?

 

[Geezertronic]

Euston is one of those stations that I guess has outgrew itself and copes with many more passengers than it was designed to deal with. With or without HS2, it needs to be rebuilt to be more customer friendly amongst other things

 

[MKB]

I commute through Euston every day and I can largely concur with these observations. Far removed from some of the "horror stories" (which no doubt do happen from time to time) that are being suggested as being the norm on this thread...

I think the clue is in the word "commute". I suspect you're a weekday user. Try being a regular user on Sundays evenings.

 

[krisk]

How odd in all these years I've never seen anyone left behind

 

[O L Leigh]

Two adages from this particular railwayman.

"It doesn't matter what we do, it's wrong."

"We are the willing lead by the incompetent to achieve the impossible for the ungrateful."

Delay is like a snowball rolling down a hill, especially at busy locations such as London terminii in the peaks. It may not mean much to you to hold the doors open for a moment or two (which can and does cause faults and failures, often requiring the entire train to be removed from service), but that delay quickly grows into something much more significant.

At Liv St services are announced 5 minutes ahead of departure, but if the service is already in the station and ready for boarding it will be shown on the screens as soon as it is available. During times of disruption it is sometimes unavoidable that services are announced late, and that is unfortunate.

But the top and bottom of this is to decide what it is you want. Do you want your train to run on time or to have a nice leisurely stroll down the platform? Due to the demands on the system we are running at full capacity in many places which means we can't tolerate tardiness on the part of the public. Like it or not, the travelling public has it's part to play in ensuring the safe and efficient running of the railway.

O L Leigh

 

[yorkie]

Personally, I really would not call Euston "sensible" - (or were you only talking about ticket checks, if so isn't St Pancras barriered? In which case not much to be done for it)

I was indeed only talking about the reports from the member of staff who works there that they allow people through without the delay of ticket checks if the platform is announced within 10 minutes of departure time. And yes, they could do the same thing at St Pancras by opening up the barriers if that occurs.

It is better for passengers and the TOC, that a train departs on time and revenue duties could then take place on board the train. The alternatives are that the train is delayed due to revenue duties not being possible in the allotted time, or that the train goes without people who were at the station in sufficient time to board the train but could not physically get through the gateline in time - neither are acceptable in my view.

If a train is announced late for boarding, it is unacceptable if people who were at the station in sufficient time to catch the train, should have the choice between running (which is a safety issue) or missing the train.

Of course, more time needs to be allowed for InterCity category trains, where there are going to be more issues getting through gatelines.

 

[krisk]

And there lies part of the problem mon ami

 

[IanXC]

I understand passengers don't always get enough notice to walk to the correct platform for their train and when I am aware of it I try to give them a little more time to ensure people are able to board.

For the record I wouldn't hold doors at all. If these kinds of late platform announcements are made I do however make a point of telling the Guard/Train Manager so that they are aware and can use their own judgement. I find in the vast majority of cases they do wait, in one case at Leeds a Guard reopened the doors with the comment, "thanks, I thought there weren't many passengers!".

 

[maniacmartin]

A similar problem is when you're on the platform next to the train as it pulls in, but staff do not allow time for all passengers who were already on the platform to board, before attempting to close the doors.

An example of this is the London Overground at Canada Water (where trains to West Croydon etc are roughly every 15 minutes) .I understand that it isn't easy with DOO, but I don't think this is acceptable.

 

[Qwerty133]

A similar problem is when you're on the platform next to the train as it pulls in, but staff do not allow time for all passengers who were already on the platform to board, before attempting to close the doors.

I have seen this at Leicester recently and after departure the train manager announced can you not hold the doors open for late running passengers as this can delay the train and that the late running passengers should board the following train.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't see a problem with that, surely it helps with the safe and punctual running of a railway? Most routes from Leicester tend to be frequent (I can only think of the Lincoln stopper and XC to Stansted / slow to Birmingham that are hourly), if it was hourly I could maybe understand your frustration but I don't see the problem with the TM's words. Also bear in mind the financial penalties for the late running of a train and the delay it would cause to other passengers who maybe have tighter connections further on - is it fair that they are penalised for another service being late that's nothing to do with them?

 

[Qwerty133]

I don't see a problem with that, surely it helps with the safe and punctual running of a railway? Most routes from Leicester tend to be frequent (I can only think of the Lincoln stopper and XC to Stansted / slow to Birmingham that are hourly), if it was hourly I could maybe understand your frustration but I don't see the problem with the TM's words.

Yes it is a frequent service (emt to Sheffield) however the late running is in bold type as these passengers were already on the platform before the train arrived so they were not late running.

 

[Starmill]

Two adages from this particular railwayman.

"It doesn't matter what we do, it's wrong."

"We are the willing lead by the incompetent to achieve the impossible for the ungrateful."

Delay is like a snowball rolling down a hill, especially at busy locations such as London terminii in the peaks. It may not mean much to you to hold the doors open for a moment or two (which can and does cause faults and failures, often requiring the entire train to be removed from service), but that delay quickly grows into something much more significant.

At Liv St services are announced 5 minutes ahead of departure, but if the service is already in the station and ready for boarding it will be shown on the screens as soon as it is available. During times of disruption it is sometimes unavoidable that services are announced late, and that is unfortunate.

But the top and bottom of this is to decide what it is you want. Do you want your train to run on time or to have a nice leisurely stroll down the platform? Due to the demands on the system we are running at full capacity in many places which means we can't tolerate tardiness on the part of the public. Like it or not, the travelling public has it's part to play in ensuring the safe and efficient running of the railway.

O L Leigh

What, so, all the signs which say things like "Don't rush!" and "Take care on the stairs!" should be taken down and replaced with ones telling people to get on the train quickly?

Or change the CoCs so that your tickets aren't valid if you walk at less than 2 m/s?

I have very little sympathy for late arriving passengers, especially at busy stations, but something is fundamentally wrong if - whatever the circumstances - people who have been waiting are unable to board in time.

 

[O L Leigh]

I have very little sympathy for late arriving passengers, especially at busy stations, but something is fundamentally wrong if - whatever the circumstances - people who have been waiting are unable to board in time.

So you would prefer delay, then...? Just hold the train for as long as necessary to make sure no-one gets left behind...? Allow the situation to snowball to such an extent that an otherwise innocuous incident cripples the network due to knock-on delays making service recovery impossible...?

Fair enough.

O L Leigh

 

[12CSVT]

So you would prefer delay, then...? Just hold the train for as long as necessary to make sure no-one gets left behind...? Allow the situation to snowball to such an extent that an otherwise innocuous incident cripples the network due to knock-on delays making service recovery impossible...?

Fair enough.

O L Leigh

I don't see what is wrong with allowing people enough time to board a train. It's almost like the old saying about 'Trains would run on time if it wasn't for the passengers'.

 

[O L Leigh]

You don't...? Oh. I thought I'd explained it adequately well.

The problem is that holding a service for a nicely woolly "enough time" (Who says when "enough time" has elapsed? How is this shown on delay attribution?) introduces delays that impact elsewhere. The railway cannot hold services indefinitely until "enough time" has passed. Passengers have to also start to understand that their own behaviour impacts on the operation of the railway. If you want a punctual service then you have to start working with us rather than against us.

O L Leigh

 

[Starmill]

You don't...? Oh. I thought I'd explained it adequately well.

The problem is that holding a service for a nicely woolly "enough time" (Who says when "enough time" has elapsed? How is this shown on delay attribution?) introduces delays that impact elsewhere. The railway cannot hold services indefinitely until "enough time" has passed. Passengers have to also start to understand that their own behaviour impacts on the operation of the railway. If you want a punctual service then you have to start working with us rather than against us.

O L Leigh

You know, if... um... "us" got the train ready for boarding more than two minutes before the booked departure time, I doubt there would ever be any problem getting everyone intending to travel onboard for the train to depart on time.

Which brings us full-circle, back to the crux of this thread How nice!

 

[asylumxl]

Maybe the industry as a whole should stop obsessing on statistics and apply some common sense to the operation?

I can dream...