Is the Tube Map seeing its final days?

[jon0844]

I wondered why we'd been seeing so many low flying planes out of the office window.

Will Blackfriars not continue to be marked as a station to change for rail services to Gatwick? On the S-Stock does the route map still show Farringdon and Blackfriars as stations to connect to airports?

It was about the only way people might get to realise that instead of taking the circle line around, you could take a shortcut by alighting at Farringdon and taking Thameslink to Blackfriars, or vice versa.

 

[Deerfold]

Will Blackfriars not continue to be marked as a station to change for rail services to Gatwick? On the S-Stock does the route map still show Farringdon and Blackfriars as stations to connect to airports?

It was about the only way people might get to realise that instead of taking the circle line around, you could take a shortcut by alighting at Farringdon and taking Thameslink to Blackfriars, or vice versa.

It may well be but the key on that map specifically says "Airport" rather than "Connections to Airport" - it is used at City and Heathrow but not at other stops on Thameslink.

 

[Jonny]

Mark Noad's design is a good evolution of the 0º/45º/90º Beck's principle and reduces some of the issues the current map has. Even with the other railway services together in the same map, it still looks well balanced.
http://www.london-tubemap.com/fare_zone.php

It's a good idea, but there is a slight flaw with how the Mill Hill East branch is shown - it's shown as being straight ahead from Finchley Central, which is problematic as Mill Hill East to Finchley Central operates as an isolated branch.

 

[Giugiaro]

You need to change at Finchley Central to get a charter to Mill Hill East?

 

[Kite159]

You need to change at Finchley Central to get a charter to Mill Hill East?

Off peak times you do.

 

[jon0844]

It may well be but the key on that map specifically says "Airport" rather than "Connections to Airport" - it is used at City and Heathrow but not at other stops on Thameslink.

There's quite a bit of time for the map to be checked over and corrected though.

 

[Giugiaro]

Yes. The map can easily be refined with some changes that make sense.

I tried this some time ago. It has some errors specially with Overground.

 

[Deerfold]

There's quite a bit of time for the map to be checked over and corrected though.

Or for a new airport to be built (probably not there, though...)

 

[jon0844]

Or for a new airport to be built (probably not there, though...)

If the roof wasn't covered with solar panels, I'd have said that would be perfect for a runway.

 

[cjp]

The maps seem to work OK for me (as a Londoner) but it would be helpful if the maps were printed double sided, The second side being an enlarged central area indicating which stations are within say a five or six minute walk of each other to stop pointless changes for one or two stops?

 

[Busaholic]

The maps seem to work OK for me (as a Londoner) but it would be helpful if the maps were printed double sided, The second side being an enlarged central area indicating which stations are within say a five or six minute walk of each other to stop pointless changes for one or two stops?

I think that's an excellent idea and one that should be put to TfL.

 

[edwin_m]

I think that's an excellent idea and one that should be put to TfL.

Since the diagram map already shows the arrangement of the lines, could the enlarged central area map be geographic and also show the principal streets?

 

[Deerfold]

Since the diagram map already shows the arrangement of the lines, could the enlarged central area map be geographic and also show the principal streets?

Even better - put the central area bus map on it so you've got the geographic layout, principal streets and can see if a short trip is actually easier by bus.

 

[cjp]

Even better - put the central area bus map on it so you've got the geographic layout, principal streets and can see if a short trip is actually easier by bus.

I think, given the size of the little trifold maps that might be a step too far.

If they brought back the large London wide maps from the 50's and 60's then show the lot by all means. I seem to remember as well as bus maps there was one called London which showed Buses trains Green line routes (remember them?) and even some principal roads that were not bus routes.

 

[Deerfold]

I think, given the size of the little trifold maps that might be a step too far.

If they brought back the large London wide maps from the 50's and 60's then show the lot by all means. I seem to remember as well as bus maps there was one called London which showed Buses trains Green line routes (remember them?) and even some principal roads that were not bus routes.

I thought the suggestion was just for the very central area? I didn't mean the same as the current "Central" map.

Although if you have much less detail they're not going to as much help as a navigational aid either.

London Underground do produce little maps for many stations showing onward connections - and if other stations are very near they appear on these.

 

[Dstock7080]

Since the diagram map already shows the arrangement of the lines, could the enlarged central area map be geographic and also show the principal streets?

Similar to something already done 1935-1954?:

 

[edwin_m]

Similar to something already done 1935-1954?:

That's basically an enlargement of the central area of the Tube map. I was thinking more of a geographic map of the central area that showed the stations and lines to scale as well as the principal roads. I seem to remember some diaries used to include a London theatre map - if it isn't a figment of my imagination then something roughly to the scale of that.

 

[Busaholic]

A guy called Mike Harris has produced his Greater London Bus Map for about nineteen years, with a new edition roughly annually. It is in the same style as LT's used to be in the days when they only published the one map, listing all bus routes on one side with a Central London map and one complete map for the rest of London on the other side. It also shows the position of all railway stations without stating which lines they are part of so could be useful if used in conjunction with the tube or any other rail map. As someone who knew most of London pretty well but has not lived there for some time and hasn't got used to all the bus routes with prefix letters etc I carry it round with me together with the tube map as an aide memoire.
The map is very reasonably priced (see his website) and a contribution is made to a different charity each year for every copy sold.He also produces a night bus map for those clubbers amongst you.

 

[Deerfold]

A guy called Mike Harris has produced his Greater London Bus Map for about nineteen years, with a new edition roughly annually. It is in the same style as LT's used to be in the days when they only published the one map, listing all bus routes on one side with a Central London map and one complete map for the rest of London on the other side. It also shows the position of all railway stations without stating which lines they are part of so could be useful if used in conjunction with the tube or any other rail map. As someone who knew most of London pretty well but has not lived there for some time and hasn't got used to all the bus routes with prefix letters etc I carry it round with me together with the tube map as an aide memoire.
The map is very reasonably priced (see his website) and a contribution is made to a different charity each year for every copy sold.He also produces a night bus map for those clubbers amongst you.

His website being here:

http://www.busmap.co.uk/

Hw also produces a range of historical maps (with, I believe, more on the way).

 

[Busaholic]

His website being here:

http://www.busmap.co.uk/

Hw also produces a range of historical maps (with, I believe, more on the way).

Thanks for adding: I'm useless with technology (self-taught, so taught by a complete idiot)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Even better - put the central area bus map on it so you've got the geographic layout, principal streets and can see if a short trip is actually easier by bus.

A geographically accurate map would probably be too much, given the size of the map.

The spider diagram of principal routes you used to get on the back of the Central London Bus Map could work, though.

 

[Deerfold]

A geographically accurate map would probably be too much, given the size of the map.

Surely that depends how big an area you choose to put on it.

The spider diagram of principal routes you used to get on the back of the Central London Bus Map could work, though.

It may well be useful, but won't help people realise which tube stations are near one another.

 

[whhistle]

But, if we are to discuss, zone 1 and 2 has quite a lot of issues. For instance, going from Farringdon to Chancery Lane is closer by foot than taking the tube around Russel Square, as the Tube Map seems to suggest.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iA8TXfpE_ac/TldlPc2_ERI/AAAAAAAAA4k/_BCDPgn9jRQ/s1600/tube.gif

Mark Noad's design is a good evolution of the 0º/45º/90º Beck's principle and reduces some of the issues the current map has. Even with the other railway services together in the same map, it still looks well balanced.
http://www.london-tubemap.com/fare_zone.php

But the latter design still shows the two stations you mentioned fairly far apart.

In answer to your question, yes, I think while the design is iconic, it should be retired for something simpler.
Kinda like Routemasters... they were an icon of London but were phased out for being impractical.

 

[Greenback]

But the latter design still shows the two stations you mentioned fairly far apart.

In answer to your question, yes, I think while the design is iconic, it should be retired for something simpler.

The problem is finding a simple design for a complex network, especially around the City of London.

No one has yet managed to produce a simpler design that is just as effective as what we have now as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Busaholic]

The problem is finding a simple design for a complex network, especially around the City of London.

No one has yet managed to produce a simpler design that is just as effective as what we have now as far as I'm concerned.

Form is temporary, genius is permanent. How many times over the decades since Harry Beck produced his first map have his ideas been ditched only to be reinstated when the flaws in newer designs have been exposed? It was shameful how Mr Beck was treated in the end by London Transport but, as you say, it has to be kept simple. Just use it in conjunction with a 'true scale' map if you need to. Once Crossrail is operational, if not before, it would be great to see the London Connections maps reappear.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It's a good idea, but there is a slight flaw with how the Mill Hill East branch is shown - it's shown as being straight ahead from Finchley Central, which is problematic as Mill Hill East to Finchley Central operates as an isolated branch.

With increasing development at Mill Hill East and one of the country's top rugby teams playing at Copthall a 2050 map may well see the branch restored to it's original 'main' road status - even maybe out to Bushey Heath as originally planned.

Piccadilly line from Slough to Potters Bar is also possibility by 2050

Central Line from Harlow (maybe even Stansted) to Heathrow

Bakerloo Line from St.Albans to Bromley

Jubilee Line from Ilford to Harrow

...... who knows what the future may bring (or the secrets of the Black Magic box).

 

[Deerfold]

With increasing development at Mill Hill East and one of the country's top rugby teams playing at Copthall a 2050 map may well see the branch restored to it's original 'main' road status - even maybe out to Bushey Heath as originally planned.

Piccadilly line from Slough to Potters Bar is also possibility by 2050

Central Line from Harlow (maybe even Stansted) to Heathrow

Bakerloo Line from St.Albans to Bromley

Jubilee Line from Ilford to Harrow

...... who knows what the future may bring (or the secrets of the Black Magic box).

Really? Given that all those lines except for the Bakerloo are pretty much full at peak time, I'm not sure I see the advantage of extending any of them. There's not much scope for increased frequencies on most of them either.

 

[edwin_m]

Really? Given that all those lines except for the Bakerloo are pretty much full at peak time, I'm not sure I see the advantage of extending any of them. There's not much scope for increased frequencies on most of them either.

Agreed. As well as central area overcrowding the outer ends of the existing Tube lines are about at the tolerable limit for an all-stations service.

Apart from minor extensions like Battersea and beyond Elephant the future is more Crossrails to main line (and perhaps in the very long term even European) standards. These improve throughput by avoiding the London termini which are otherwise the most immovable limits on the numbers of both trains and passengers.

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder whether Central Line Liverpool Street to Stansted would be quicker than the Stansted Express (no personal knowledge, only what I read).

 

[MikeWh]

Once Crossrail is operational, if not before, it would be great to see the London Connections maps reappear.

They already have. They're now called London's Rail & Tube services and the same map appears on both NR and TfL stations and websites.