Is the campaign for rail travel working?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some old people use National Express because they find trains too confusing.

Coaches in Scotland attract a more regular crowd and are probably viewed as a more mainstream form of transport compared to in England.

National Express give a large discount to over-60's passengers, on production of their National Concessionary Bus Pass. I heard some elderly ladies at the Manchester Airport Interchange say it was 50%.

 

[Greenback]

I must say that whenever I have seen a National Express bus, it has had a wide range of passenger ages on board. Maybe that is not the case in other areas!

 

[StrollerEd]

going back to the plane vs train comparison, I've unconvered that I can travel by train (return) between Edinburgh and Plymouth for more dosh that it costs to fly (return) to Exeter, taking over 8.5 hours for the former and 90 minutes for the latter. Now I have to persuade my partner that it may not be green but ...

... need to re-think this holiday jaunt: perhaps we need to break the journey with a o/n stay and a really good meal, but does ticketing allow that?

 

[Greenback]

Scotland to the South West is one of the routes where rail can never be competitive with air on speed.

But to me personally, there are more things to consider than that. I have flown to Scotland from Cardiff, but the experience was poor. I would consider air again, but it is no longer so clear cut a decision as previously!

 

[Techniquest]

In the early days of megabus, one could expect an ex-Hong Kong double decker Olympian...

I've done 7 hours on one of them, not comfortable at all. That should be an advert for Virgin/East Coast/FGW

From a bus crank's point of view, they were pretty rateable! Great fun climbing up the mahooooooooooosive Birdlip bank on the run from Gloucester that was. Now they've changed it totally and it's an Inter-Urban and goes via the A40 to Cheltenham and over to Swindon from there, missing out what was the highlight of the journey.

Also had one from London to Cardiff and possibly on another occasion to Bristol too, great fun for a while but the M4 gets incredibly dull after a while. Moreso if you've been on an all-nighter and really need sleep!

Now to read pages 4 and 5 of this thread!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

True but we are talking desperation

Sorry to have to make another post on this thread (you'll all be glad when I go out for the day later!), but I strongly contest this statement, which was made in reply to this post:

"Agreed, although it may be necessary to travel on a bus for more than half an hour if there is no train service"

Now I'm sorry dk1, but I cannot agree with either the post of yours I quote in this post or your 100% train, never the bus, ideals. In a perfect world, I'd have trains go wherever I wanted, which would mean railways through some of the most stunning parts of Middle Wales. I'd also have a railway station within a matter of moments' walk from my front door and a railway directly to my place of work, links to the rest of the mainline network too so DRS could run a container train every day with deliveries instead of 3 or 4 lorries, and the train would have multiple 37s on the front...

That, however, is not the real world. Shame, but it isn't. In reality, we have to have buses run in rural parts of the country. I live in a moderately rural town, but we're blessed with an hourly bus service for most of the day. Before I end up rambling on and on, I remind you my main contention with your posts is that to spend more than 30 minutes on a bus is desperation.

As I mention above, I live in a rural town with hourly buses for most of the day. I rely totally on buses or private transport to get to and from work, or indeed to go anywhere I want. My average bus journey time? 61 minutes each way. Is that desperation?

I await your answer eagerly! I also hope that you don't take this post too heavily, as although I got a bit annoyed with your post I didn't intend to come down on you like a ton of bricks! Now, to prepare for a day on the rails, including the bus to Hereford at 0645 and return at 2115!

 

[HST Power]

I should've put a poll into the thread.

On the subject of the elderly and train travel, as Paul Sidorczuk said, National Express offer discounts to the over sixties. Grand Central have discounts of 25% on tickets between Kings Cross (34% with a senior railcard). All TOCs have some form of cut price policy for the elderly. Train travel would also probably be much more convienent than getting to an airport.

 

[radamfi]

Megabus don't offer discounts for the elderly, except for journeys wholly within Scotland where they travel free. However, National Express only offer discounts on regular fares, not Funfares. Megabus would typically be cheaper than National Express' regular fares even with discount.

 

[DarloRich]

I have used a coach once in my life. Never again, it is for serfs. It took ages from Newcastle to Exeter. It stopped for about an hour at some sh*t tip in Birmingham which had a sub greasy spoon cafe thing and some stinking bogs and the bus was full of chavs.

Give me the train anyday. I was a student then and decided after it took nearly 4 hours to get to Leeds to only use the train and travel less if i had to

 

[dk1]

I await your answer eagerly! I also hope that you don't take this post too heavily, as although I got a bit annoyed with your post I didn't intend to come down on you like a ton of bricks! Now, to prepare for a day on the rails, including the bus to Hereford at 0645 and return at 2115!

'Desperation' was more of a personal feeling towards longer bus journey's largely on a part of travel sickness. Of course i understand that the railway closures of the 1960s left many with no option & today the Cambridge-Milton Keynes-Oxford corridior for example is not really possible by rail unless a long & expensive trek via the capital is made.

A trip around Ireland a couple of years back was entirely by rail apart from Derry-Sligo which was of several hours aboard an omnibus which left me feeling pretty

 

[radamfi]

Believe it or not, there are enthusiasts who travel by coach over train by choice. Someone on the Megabus Yahoo Group used to (and may still do) go from London to Aberdeen every Friday night and come back on Saturday night, for fun.

Other than the Dublin to Cork route, coaches in Ireland historically have been more useful than trains due to trains being painfully slow and infrequent, although since most of the train fleet went DMU the train service is now more competitive. Coach travel in Ireland is more interesting than in England as you get to see most villages on the way, although since more motorways have been built it has become more boring, although quicker. I've done Galway to Derry by coach - great route!

Coaches in Ireland and Scotland also don't usually require booking in advance, unlike in England.

 

[DarloRich]

Believe it or not, there are enthusiasts who travel by coach over train by choice. Someone on the Megabus Yahoo Group used to (and may still do) go from London to Aberdeen every Friday night and come back on Saturday night, for fun.

QUOTE]

FOR FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG - that would be torture! ( might still be more comfortable than a Voyager!)

 

[HST Power]

FOR FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG - that would be torture! ( might still be more comfortable than a Voyager!)

Going on a coach for fun? hock:

I'd sooner walk through Stevenage at the dead of night with no protection and carrying bank notes than do London-Aberdeen on the coach for fun.

Who would do that?

It would be more comfortable sitting on the roof!

 

[swt_passenger]

Going back to the original post, where is this 'campaign' anyway?

I'd definitely agree it seems to be government policy to transfer internal air travel to rail, but I don't see them actually running a campaign to encourage it, they are just hoping that preferences will change following improvements to the rail service, and all those deterrent air taxes.

 

[flymo]

Going on a coach for fun? hock:

[...]

Who would do that?

Whoever they are, they probably think the same way about sitting on a train for 8 hours

Horses for courses.

 

[HST Power]

Whoever they are, they probably think the same way about sitting on a train for 8 hours

I suppose you're right, neither side could possibly convince one another!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Going on a coach for fun? hock:

I'd sooner walk through Stevenage at the dead of night with no protection and carrying bank notes than do London-Aberdeen on the coach.

There are those who would prefer the delights of riding on Pacer trains, to riding on a coach. I would class this as deciding which was the lesser of two evils.

Seriously now, much as many of us would never admit to it, coach travel does have its uses, when there is a long journey to make. For example, if you wanted to go on holiday with a young family from Wilmslow in Cheshire to Falmouth, you can do this by having your travel agent book you on a direct coach (run by a local coach company) and book your hotel at the same time. How many changes, with luggage involved, would an intending rail traveller have to make from Wilmslow station to Falmouth Town station, with all the problems that the luggage will make.

This is not a hypothetical case. A young family of four in our village is actually making this journey in the next few weeks....by coach.

 

[radamfi]

Coaches seem an acceptable form of transport for millionaire footballers.

 

[WestCoast]

Coaches seem an acceptable form of transport for millionaire footballers.

I regularly travel on coach private hires from a local award winning coach firm, and the coaches are very modern, fairly comfortable and are operated by friendly, chatty drivers. NX and Megabus are not in the same league.

 

[radamfi]

I regularly travel on coach private hires from a local award winning coach firm, and the coaches are very modern, fairly comfortable and are operated by friendly, chatty drivers. NX and Megabus are not in the same league.

That indicates that there isn't a problem with the concept of coaches per se, but a dislike of the specific experience of British scheduled services.

 

[dk1]

Coaches seem an acceptable form of transport for millionaire footballers.

I never quite get that!! Virgin Trains recently posted on fb that the Man U squad had travelled with them to London ready for their Wembley game.

 

[SS4]

Coaches seem an acceptable form of transport for millionaire footballers.

Woe betide they meet some of the fans that pay their wages

 

[HST Power]

I regularly travel on coach private hires from a local award winning coach firm, and the coaches are very modern, fairly comfortable and are operated by friendly, chatty drivers. NX and Megabus are not in the same league.

I fully agree. Whilst I have made it paramount that I strongly dislike public bus services (in Letchworth we have Arriva and Cozy's Coaches, both about as appealing and comfortable as a dip in a tub of hydrochloric acid) I have travelled with Private companies which have provided both myself and my family with an enjoyable, friendly, worthwhile ride that seemed more than worthy of my money.

 

[ivanhoe]

I have no problems with coaches and Nat Express do a decent job in providing a national service. For many people, the coach offers lower cost travel. There are loads of people in this country who rarely use trains. Reasons are a mixture of economics and preference.

There's a huge market between Oxford and London. Why aren't the railways fighting back? There are about 17 coaches per day between Leicester and London. They may bot originate from Leicester but Nat Express are managing to make money even though there are 4 trains per hour from Leicester.

Coaches have been a significant part of our transport network for many years and will be so for a number of years to come.

 

[dk1]

Around Norwich we are lucky to have 2 very good bus operators in the form of Konnectbus & Anglian. First (Eastern Counties) try hard but just seem to shoot themselves in the foot all the time.

 

[radamfi]

There's a huge market between Oxford and London. Why aren't the railways fighting back?

I have followed this service for years. The services provided by the Oxford Tube and Espress are not particularly quick or cheap, but carry vast numbers of passengers. Oxford Tube alone runs up to every 10 minutes and can regularly be seen with 'Sorry, coach full' on its destination blind. A lot of the passengers get on at local stops on its way out of Oxford towards Headington and the Park & Ride. It is easier for them to get the coach direct to London from there compared to going into the city centre and getting the train.

If you look up its history it didn't get popular until Thames Transit started the Oxford Tube in the late 80s. Strong marketing, high frequency and low fares led to a huge increase in patronage across both companies. Fares are now much higher but passengers continue to grow because of the frequent, quality service. They show what can be done with coaches. No downmarket image like NX or Megabus.

It would be interesting to see the coach/rail share on this route. Oxford and Paddington stations are not particularly well sited so perhaps the coach capitalises on this, but trains are still a fair bit quicker and fares not much different (especially with railcards) so I can't see what else can be done. Maybe the forthcoming Chiltern service will pick up passengers from the Park & Ride station at Water Eaton Parkway.

 

[dk1]

There's a huge market between Oxford and London. Why aren't the railways fighting back?

Ahh now thats something that sticks in my mind from NSE days. The London Evening Standard ran an 'improve our trains' type of campaign which included this route. A passenger asked why there was a frequency of 6 coaches an hour opposed to NSEs one. The clever reply from BR was that we ran 9 coaches per-hour only ours where all coupled together!!

 

[Zoe]

The Paddington to Oxford train service has seen imporvements in recent years with HSTs replacing turbos. It must be the only city close to London that benefits from a dedicated HST service.

 

[WestCoast]

Megabus offer tickets from a £1 on the Oxford Tube don't they?

Oxford - London is probably the best coach route in the country, two competing coach companies with high quality coaches, flexible fares which are cheaper than the train, very high frequencies (every 12 minutes?) with convenient stops, free Wi-Fi and the Oxford Tube offers a complimentary light breakfast (can't see FGW doing that any time soon!).

To me, that is a one of the few REAL alternatives to the train, and the only realistic one for business passengers e.t.c.

 

[Zoe]

I believe the Oxford Tube even runs on Christmas Day making Oxford possibly the only city with a link to London every day of the year.

 

[dk1]

Must be loads of reasons why they cant but if i ran a TOC i would undercut ALL competing coach routes even if i incurred a massive loss simply to put them out of business as most people prefer rail for longer trips & would then make a killing on my capive market only offering further bargains as & when any one else came on the scene to challenge me.