Is it the end for GBR??

[RailWonderer]

Not unless you want it to look straight out of the 1980s, no. And RA2 and the associated signage, I'm afraid, does.

The road signs and the BR logo are actually 1960s, and that is perfect as it is. Variations of fonts and graphics should stay with local ToCs like it has been the last 25 years.
GBR was just a project that was meant to look like the government was doing more for the railway - all they are doing is controlling the finances more than they did before.

 

[Turtle]

The road signs and the BR logo are actually 1960s, and that is perfect as it is. Variations of fonts and graphics should stay with local ToCs like it has been the last 25 years.
GBR was just a project that was meant to look like the government was doing more for the railway - all they are doing is controlling the finances more than they did before.

Regrettably I believe you're correct.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I reckon GBR will be put on ice for now but I could see it being revived by Labour in some form if they get at the next election.

Labour perhaps likely would take a different approach, they may not wish to take on anything associated with the current government as DfT and National Highways etc also GBR may get renamed?

On other hand Starmer seems to like the tacky twee "Great British" as he is proposing a new state energy provider - Great British Energy thus GBR name may survive though probably with heavily rewritten policies.

 

[Thirteen]

Isn’t GBR basically the TfL model on a National scale?

 

[eldomtom2]

Labour perhaps likely would take a different approach, they may not wish to take on anything associated with the current government as DfT and National Highways etc also GBR may get renamed?

On other hand Starmer seems to like the tacky twee "Great British" as he is proposing a new state energy provider - Great British Energy thus GBR name may survive though probably with heavily rewritten policies.

Starmer has committed Labour to "renationalisation as contracts expire" - what precisely this means is unclear.

 

[High Dyke]

Starmer has committed Labour to "renationalisation as contracts expire" - what precisely this means is unclear.

Probably, not much dissimilar to the current situation for train operating companies. However, I believe that revenue would then go to a central pot - whoever holds that - as opposed to private companies contracted to run services. Even under GBR the business model seemed to have changed little from rail franchises. Add to that the farce of selecting a new headquarters, when current office space is underused, or even being sold off. I wouldn't be surprised if GBR will be quietly swept under the carpet at some point.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Proper renationalisation or not whether under Labour or Cons, I wouldn't mind seeing a new different name used instead of GBR.

I'm excited at the possibility of a new design template which could be a lot better than the unbelievably dull RA2 & white signage currently rolled out. I hope to see more white text on blue European style similar to what is in use at SWR stations.

"Great British" is just gaudy and old fashioned, obviously inspired by and riding on nostalgia from the GBBO effect. Also not quite appropriate when it doesn't directly affect ScotRail, NI Translink and TfW other than Scottish & Welsh Network Rail matters.

It could be decided in time to keep Network Rail separate from the new entity which will focus more on English railways also avoiding any interference over ScotRail and TfW.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Starmer has committed Labour to "renationalisation as contracts expire" - what precisely this means is unclear.

Probably vesting them in the "OLR" instead of retendering.

 

[D365]

If so, it won’t be the first brave new beginning that hasn’t really led anywhere. A bit like the “Digital Railway” a few years ago that we were told would be expanded over the entire network within a few years, only to go very quiet and sink without trace.

It’s not sunk. East Coast Digital Programme is very much a going concern.

 

[py_megapixel]

Labour perhaps likely would take a different approach

I really hope so. Having the railways run for private profit is madness, but if the last few years have proven anything, it's that central government micromanaging it doesn't work either, - mainly because those in control of government departments are not generally appointed on the basis of their competence in that area, and generally seem more worried about playing politics instead of running their department effectively and efficiently and planning for the long term.

 

[Thirteen]

I think railways and transport in general should be arms length if they are under Government control. Perhaps having a Transport Commisioner in charge of different regions would be better but they have to report to the SOS

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think railways and transport in general should be arms length if they are under Government control. Perhaps having a Transport Commisioner in charge of different regions would be better but they have to report to the SOS

I think LNER is proving quite a good model. It's sort of a mini BR.

 

[eldomtom2]

Probably vesting them in the "OLR" instead of retendering.

Well that's presumably how they'd go about the business of "nationalising" them. I'd presume they'd want to do some reorganisation after that though.

 

[43066]

It’s not sunk. East Coast Digital Programme is very much a going concern.

The project website has been massively scaled back and none of the “ETCS over the network within 25 years” buzz (which I think was an Chris Grayling hobby horse) has come to fruition.

 

[D365]

The project website has been massively scaled back and none of the “ETCS over the network within 25 years” buzz (which I think was an Chris Grayling hobby horse) has come to fruition.

I’ll agree with you on that count. ETCS is coming, and lights on sticks will be replaced. But there was never any chance of ambitious politician timescales coming to fruition.

 

[43066]

I’ll agree with you on that count. ETCS is coming, and lights on sticks will be replaced. But there was never any chance of ambitious politician timescales coming to fruition.

Yes indeed. It’s amazing how it seems to keep slipping!

 

[py_megapixel]

I think LNER is proving quite a good model. It's sort of a mini BR.

Except Northern are under the same model and they're barely better than they were in their privatised state.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Except Northern are under the same model and they're barely better than they were in their privatised state.

LNER's probably down to the Intercity East Coast management structure as the previous public East Coast was also well regarded more than NXEC and VTEC wasn't it?

Anyone can confirm whether public Southeastern is any better than previous Govia Southeastern?

The suggestion about merging all English TOCs under one OLR, in a management contract or concession for DfT, could work if it is well managed by say the same team that ran East Coast or currently run LNER.

The problem is this will depend on the sort of management/team chosen to run the OLR so if the team running Southern or WMR (rated worst TOCs of 2022 by Transport Focus) get selected then the woes will unfortunately continue.

 

[Thirteen]

I wonder if the devolved transport bodies and mayors could have a say in how railways are operated within their region? I know TfL wanted to take over the London Metro services and I think a Labour Government would probably be receptive to the idea of giving them Thameslink, Southern, GN etc

 

[Bald Rick]

I think LNER is proving quite a good model. It's sort of a mini BR.

It really isn’t!

 

[Agent_Squash]

LNER's probably down to the Intercity East Coast management structure as the previous public East Coast was also well regarded more than NXEC and VTEC wasn't it?

Anyone can confirm whether public Southeastern is any better than previous Govia Southeastern?

The suggestion about merging all English TOCs under one OLR, in a management contract or concession for DfT, could work if it is well managed by say the same team that ran East Coast or currently run LNER.

The problem is this will depend on the sort of management/team chosen to run the OLR so if the team running Southern or WMR (rated worst TOCs of 2022 by Transport Focus) get selected then the woes will unfortunately continue.

LNERs management team remained the same as VTEC on transfer.

It’s not the golden gem that it’s made out to be - rather, it’s like how VTEC would’ve been ran without any over generous DfT premiums…

 

[Sm5]

Ideally we'd adopt a similar method to other countries with barriers being locked open and no ticket checks on strike days.

That would be the best solution. Maximum disruption to Government/management, less to third parties.

Law on travelling without a valid ticket would still apply.
Inspectors would have a field day.

 

[43066]

Law on travelling without a valid ticket would still apply.
Inspectors would have a field day.

And the small matter of the sack for gross misconduct, and possibly criminal sanctions, for those employees opening the barirers….

 

[Agent_Squash]

And the small matter of the sack for gross misconduct, and possibly criminal sanctions, for those employees opening the barirers….

I’d much rather the railway stops revenue collection than stops working entirely. It means the public don’t have to get involved in the fallout.

 

[nw1]

I'm not so convinced the end of GBR is a good thing. The one good idea of the Johnson government, arguably. Yes, GBR is a bit of a cheesy name, I will admit that. How about something simpler. For example, er, "British Rail"

One thing I'd dearly love to see is a properly integrated system. Preferably public rather than private, but above all, I'd like to see the end of TOC fiefdoms and have the whole system run by one organisation. I would also like to see a common livery, or set of liveries (e.g. InterCity, regional and London commuter), and common style/font across the whole network, as happens in other European countries. On the other hand, the rail company should also be free to make its own decisions without too much government interference.

I do wonder whether Truss' hardline Thatcherite politics have anything to do with this.

 

[43066]

I’d much rather the railway stops revenue collection than stops working entirely. It means the public don’t have to get involved in the fallout.

I do agree with the sentiment, but legally protected industrial action is very narrowly defined and doesn’t include allowing passengers to avoid payment. Therefore this wouldn’t ever be an option.

 

[HSTEd]

The railway is incapable of adapting to any change in circumstances in a reasonable timeframe.

It can't even manage to complete a move to regional control centres before the 2070s, and that is something that will have been common in many systems abroad for a century by then. Hell BNSF has been running its continent-spanning system primarily from one building since the 90s!

If the railway can't manage a reorganisation in a decade and can't manage ETCS in 25 years, then it is lost and we might as well stop throwing good money away trying to preserve the (bulk of the) railway into the electric vehicle era.

 

[43066]

If the railway can't manage a reorganisation in a decade and can't manage ETCS in 25 years, then it is lost and we might as well stop throwing good money away trying to preserve the (bulk of the) railway into the electric vehicle era.

What a ridiculous statement.

 

[Cardiff123]

The latest news article speculating that GBR is "set to be scrapped" from iNews.

Of course, Truss could well be gone by the end of the year, and another PM could be in place by January, with Shapps et al back in cabinet to revive GBR.

Tory rebel Grant Shapps's flagship railways project looks set to be scrapped, insiders say

Landmark rail reforms facing axe as part of bonfire of Johnson-era policies

inews.co.uk

Tory rebel Grant Shapps’s flagship Great British Railways project looks set to be scrapped, insiders say

Landmark rail reforms facing axe as part of bonfire of Johnson-era policies

Grant Shapps’s flagship Great British Railways project is in danger of being scrapped, according to insiders working on it.

The former transport secretary, who is currently at odds with new Prime Minister Liz Truss, had led plans to replace rail franchising and modernise ticketing – but those working on the project now believe it will be axed.

A Whitehall source told i that work had slowed down significantly since Ms Truss entered No 10, leading to fears over its future amid a bonfire of other Boris Johnson-era policies.

Another claimed the project had been all but halted, with the anticipation within the Department for Transport being th at it will be canned.

Plans to simplify tickets and replace the current franchise model with an outsourcing process were proposed under the creation of a new public body, ”Great British Railways” .

The proposals – which build upon the Williams Rail Review of 2018 – also outlined more pay as you go, contactless and digital ticketing on smartphones.

When the project was unveiled in May 2021, the Department for Transport said: “A new public body, Great British Railways (GBR), will integrate the railways, owning the infrastructure, collecting fare revenue, running and planning the network, and setting most fares and timetables.

“GBR will simplify the current mass of confusing tickets with new flexible season tickets and a significant roll-out of more convenient Pay As You Go, contactless and digital ticketing on smartphones.

“A new GBR website will sell tickets and a single compensation system for operators in England will provide a simple system for passengers to access information and apply for refunds.

“There will remain a substantial and often greater role for the private sector. GBR will contract private partners to operate most trains to the timetables and fares it specifies.”

When announcing the plans, Mr Shapps hailed the reforms as a remedy for “years of fragmentation, confusion and overcomplication” on the railways.

Many of the changes outlined were already out for consultation, and plans for a new headquarters in the north for Great British Railways were being developed.

A source close to Mr Shapps said that they had heard the project could be scrapped but had not received any formal confirmation of a policy change.

In recent weeks, Mr Shapps has become one of the faces of the opposition to Ms Truss’s premiership. Last week, he criticised the Government for not supporting workers on lower incomes and prioritising tax cuts for the richest.

 

[Bevan Price]

I see little chance that Ms Truss will go before the 2024 election. Railways may be starved of more funds to pay for her "more roads" programme, but the Tories will cobble together some "compromise" to keep them in power as long as possible.