Is generosity something to be ashamed of?

[Peter Sarf]

Started a new thread after reading through this closed thread.

Anyway it did raise in me the thought I often have as to how generous one should be. Its disappointing if no gratitude is returned but I still feel empowered to do good deeds. On the other hand push me and I get obstinate !. I have been chastised for small gestures of generosity often costing me nothing in money or time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think generosity is to be embarrassed about, no. That's separate from the fact that I wouldn't give up my seat for another able bodied person, whoever they were. You like to be generous in this case, whereas I prefer a seat, which I normally put myself out to get, e.g. ensuring I board busy trains as soon as they are called.

I respect your choice while at the same time saying my choice would differ.

 

[AM9]

I don't think generosity is to be embarrassed about, no. That's separate from the fact that I wouldn't give up my seat for another able bodied person, whoever they were. You like to be generous in this case, whereas I prefer a seat, which I normally put myself out to get, e.g. ensuring I board busy trains as soon as they are called.

I respect your choice while at the same time saying my choice would differ.

... and how do you decide whether somebody who you probably have never met before is able bodied?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't think generosity is to be embarrassed about, no. That's separate from the fact that I wouldn't give up my seat for another able bodied person, whoever they were. You like to be generous in this case, whereas I prefer a seat, which I normally put myself out to get, e.g. ensuring I board busy trains as soon as they are called.

I respect your choice while at the same time saying my choice would differ.

I agree, it depends on the need of the potential recipient and how much my need is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

... and how do you decide whether somebody who you probably have never met before is able bodied?

If someone has an invisible disability which would give them a higher need for the seat, they or their carer need to politely ask for the seat, saying why. I am not a mindreader.

No, they don't need to explain their medical history, "I have a disability/injury so am in pain if I stand for too long" is enough.

 

[Peter Sarf]

... and how do you decide whether somebody who you probably have never met before is able bodied?

This is very true. As I am getting old so people offer me a seat but I don't need it - they may even need it more than me. I at least have the opportunity to thank them politely.

I would even broaden it out to giving way to other car users. There are junctions where I know letting people out or across costs me nothing as I am still stuck behind the same car half a mile down the road. I can even give way to oncoming traffic so as to release the gridlock I am approaching. It is all about the bigger picture. The point is we all need to do what we can especially in cases where it costs us nothing or very little.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2023 ==

If someone has an invisible disability which would give them a higher need for the seat, they or their carer need to politely ask for the seat, saying why. I am not a mindreader.

No, they don't need to explain their medical history, "I have a disability/injury so am in pain if I stand for too long" is enough.

It is a difficult call. Easy if its obvious, hard if its not obvious and the person is too shy to ask. World is full of people to polite to ask - meek shall inherit the earth but we get the mining rights etc etc.

I don't feel guilty if there is nothing I know I should feel guilty about.

 

[AM9]

If someone has an invisible disability which would give them a higher need for the seat, they or their carer need to politely ask for the seat, saying why. I am not a mindreader.

No, they don't need to explain their medical history, "I have a disability/injury so am in pain if I stand for too long" is enough.

So they ask somebody who answers with a refusal to budge. Is that because they are also similarly needing of a seat or just see that seat as theirs as long as they want it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So they ask somebody who answers with a refusal to budge. Is that because they are also similarly needing of a seat or just see that seat as theirs as long as they want it?

If you ask out loud almost certainly someone will. I've seen it a few times. The priority seats are the place to start, that's what they're for.

 

[AM9]

If you ask out loud almost certainly someone will. I've seen it a few times. The priority seats are the place to start, that's what they're for.

Not everybody has the fortitude to risk a refusal/insult back because the asked person didn't see the crutch/prosthetic leg/white stick etc., on some trains where there is quite a rucsh for seats, some passenger (especially en masse) will just shrug their shoulders/look the other way or put a request down with contempt. Yes, I really have seen such behaviour and it isn't just modern internet age self-entitled arrogance. I wonder whay I would do if I felt that I was going to collapse, maybe stumble over their feet?

 

[Peter Sarf]

So they ask somebody who answers with a refusal to budge. Is that because they are also similarly needing of a seat or just see that seat as theirs as long as they want it?

If you ask out loud almost certainly someone will. I've seen it a few times. The priority seats are the place to start, that's what they're for.

Unfortunately it depends on the tone of the request. I can feel entrenched if the request is too forceful. Problem is a person suffering anxiety can come across as unpleasant - its a reaction to their predicament that the affects the reaction of those around them.

We do suffer people who do not think of others. For example - Can people please move down inside the carriage.

Not everybody has the fortitude to risk a refusal/insult back because the asked person didn't see the crutch/prosthetic leg/white stick etc., on some trains where there is quite a rucsh for seats, some passenger (especially en masse) will just shrug their shoulders/look the other way or put a request down with contempt. Yes, I really have seen such behaviour and it isn't just modern internet age self-entitled arrogance. I wonder whay I would do if I felt that I was going to collapse, maybe stumble over their feet?

Observation - I just remembered how quickly some people gave space on a train when someone started gagging. I had already suggested space was needed. One obstinate sole became part of the mess !.

Yes there is a real problem with how one asks and that comes down to tone of voice and confidence - and lack of confidence goes hand in hand with many disabilities.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not everybody has the fortitude to risk a refusal/insult back because the asked person didn't see the crutch/prosthetic leg/white stick etc., on some trains where there is quite a rucsh for seats, some passenger (especially en masse) will just shrug their shoulders/look the other way or put a request down with contempt. Yes, I really have seen such behaviour and it isn't just modern internet age self-entitled arrogance. I wonder whay I would do if I felt that I was going to collapse, maybe stumble over their feet?

So what do you do? Offer your seat to anyone who boards regardless of who they are? Because that's the only way to deal with the issue you pose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2023 ==

Unfortunately it depends on the tone of the request. I can feel entrenched if the request is too forceful. Problem is a person suffering anxiety can come across as unpleasant - its a reaction to their predicament that affect the reaction of those around them.

We do suffer people who do not think of others. For example - Can people please move down inside the carriage.

You can generally see if someone is being rude or has a disability that would mean they genuinely can't properly construct a polite sentence. There are pretty much always other visual or auditory clues.

Being stressed or otherwise unhappy (e.g. because you've just lost your job) doesn't convey any entitlement at all. Bad things happen to everyone from time to time. Entitlement to a seat over others is only where a disability or injury makes that person less able to stand. Some may be more generous but that's their choice and theirs alone, and it's wrong to look down on others who don't do that as much as it's wrong to look down on people who do.

 

[Peter Sarf]

So what do you do? Offer your seat to anyone who boards regardless of who they are? Because that's the only way to deal with the issue you pose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2023 ==



You can generally see if someone is being rude or has a disability that would mean they genuinely can't properly construct a polite sentence. There are pretty much always other visual or auditory clues.

Being stressed or otherwise unhappy (e.g. because you've just lost your job) doesn't convey any entitlement at all. Bad things happen to everyone from time to time. Entitlement to a seat over others is only where a disability or injury makes that person less able to stand. Some may be more generous but that's their choice and theirs alone, and it's wrong to look down on others who don't do that as much as it's wrong to look down on people who do.

It is a grey area. On the side of how needy someone is and also how people react to a need (perceived or otherwise).

Of course what would help is if the planet was not so crowded !. I mean a crowded train/bus is more likely to be a place where conflicts of requirements come to the fore. Some thing a plane generally avoids so only leaving the truly trouble some so make a scene.

 

[Starmill]

Personally I prefer the kind of generosity where nobody ever need know who the other party is nor why they gave or received. I find that way there's no opportunity for any feelings of awkwardness or obligation, and no room for unconscious judgements.

Perhaps the best example of this is a coffee shop near me that has a 'community coffee board'. If a customer orders a community coffee (which they can do on the ordering screen if they wish), the staff stick a voucher up on the board. If someone is in need they don't need to ask or give any reason, they simply go in, take the voucher from the board and use it to buy any hot drink. The shop themselves contribute to this because the community coffee costs £2.10 which is a discount on most orders.

 

[Herefordian]

No. It absolutely isn't.

I'm doing well in life. So I like to look after my family, friends.

I might need them to look after me one day.

Being kind costs nothing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I prefer the kind of generosity where nobody ever need know who the other party is nor why they gave or received. I find that way there's no opportunity for any feelings of awkwardness or obligation, and no room for unconscious judgements.

Perhaps the best example of this is a coffee shop near me that has a 'community coffee board'. If a customer orders a community coffee (which they can do on the ordering screen if they wish), the staff stick a voucher up on the board. If someone is in need they don't need to ask or give any reason, they simply go in, take the voucher from the board and use it to buy any hot drink. The shop themselves contribute to this because the community coffee costs £2.10 which is a discount on most orders.

The trouble is that with train seats that can't really work unless you don't mind standing on all journeys - and if you don't, why take a seat in the first place? (I normally don't take a seat on the Tube).

 

[Peter Sarf]

Personally I prefer the kind of generosity where nobody ever need know who the other party is nor why they gave or received. I find that way there's no opportunity for any feelings of awkwardness or obligation, and no room for unconscious judgements.

Perhaps the best example of this is a coffee shop near me that has a 'community coffee board'. If a customer orders a community coffee (which they can do on the ordering screen if they wish), the staff stick a voucher up on the board. If someone is in need they don't need to ask or give any reason, they simply go in, take the voucher from the board and use it to buy any hot drink. The shop themselves contribute to this because the community coffee costs £2.10 which is a discount on most orders.

That is a good point. Also reminds me that to give charity is better if the recipient can earn it in some (legal and descent) way - so they feel more entitled.

No. It absolutely isn't.

I'm doing well in life. So I like to look after my family, friends.

I might need them to look after me one day.

Being kind costs nothing.

Reminds of the saying - what goes round comes round.

Yes I do think of myself as lucky to not be worse off and always wonder if I am wrong or mis judging. I must admit most of my help is practical rather than giving money. It is nice if one can help someone help themselves. Voluntary work is a nice way of rubbing shoulders with like minded people. But there are many kinds of and levels of help people are able or willing to give.

 

[Brush 4]

I have no problem with generosity, you can give me loads of money, no problem.......

 

[150249]

I have no problem with generosity, you can give me loads of money, no problem.......

I might have to veto this. I want the money.

I think that generally generosity is ok as long as you aren't being bias towards particular people.

 

[Bevan Price]

I don't like charity broadcasts or adverts telling me how much they want me to give. I will decide what I want to give, if I support that charity (and I cannot afford to support them all.)

 

[Broucek]

I think that generally generosity is ok as long as you aren't being bias towards particular people.

Not sure about this. There are lots of Turks and Turkish Cypriots where I live and they were very good at mobilising for the recent Earthquake. One could say that was "bias" and that in, a perfect world, they would respond equally to ANY earthquake. What I saw was a positive community response. (And in a truly perfect world there wouldn't be any earthquakes anyway....)

 

[Cdd89]

I think the nuance of generosity takes some time to be learned. In particular, bribery, buying friendships and being used can all feel like generosity to someone who doesn't recognise that that only applies if the person giving gets nothing in return.

I've noticed this a fair bit with my 11-year-old sister who keeps giving money to or buying things for 'friends' at school but imagines she is just being generous.

However I would say there is nothing to be ashamed of in true generosity. And also that the most generous acts often don't involve giving people things; giving time can be just as valuable.

 

[Ediswan]

(And in a truly perfect world there wouldn't be any earthquakes anyway....)

Earthquakes are a result of plate tectonics. Some believe that plate tectonics play a key role in creating a stable habitable global climate. There again, some argue that the planet would be a better place if humans had never appeared.

https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opin...-maintained-earth-s--goldilocks--climate.html

Not hothouse, nor icehouse: when tectonic plates move at a moderate speed - not too fast or slow - Earth remains habitable, new University of Sydney research finds.

 

[Broucek]

There again, some argue that the planet would be a better place if humans had never appeared.

Am really hoping you meant to add a at the end and just forgot....

 

[Ediswan]

Am really hoping you meant to add a at the end and just forgot....

No.

 

[birchesgreen]

The planet would indeed be a better place without us for many of it's inhabitants. Not for us though obviously.

 

[GS250]

Situational generosity is my style.

However....be wary of those who will always be on the receiving end of your generosity but do not reciprocate. In spite of having the means to do so.

Very valid in the workplace I'd say....

 

[Sorcerer]

I would say there is no shame in true generosity, but unfortunately people tend to also mistake kindness for weakness, and for some if you even give them a smidge of a penny they'll be asking for a pound in no time, therefore in the real world, generosity has to be part of a delicate balancing act.

 

[150249]

Not sure about this. There are lots of Turks and Turkish Cypriots where I live and they were very good at mobilising for the recent Earthquake. One could say that was "bias" and that in, a perfect world, they would respond equally to ANY earthquake. What I saw was a positive community response. (And in a truly perfect world there wouldn't be any earthquakes anyway....)

That is a very good point

 

[Bevan Price]

The planet would indeed be a better place without us for many of it's inhabitants. Not for us though obviously.

The way the climate is changing, there will be a lot less people in 100 - 200 years, because we won't be able to grow enough food to support the current world population.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The way the climate is changing, there will be a lot less people in 100 - 200 years, because we won't be able to grow enough food to support the current world population.

Oh we will just fight over what little food there is and end up destroying the whole planet load of life when the loser only has nukes left.