Ipswich trespass incident

[ralphchadkirk]

I saw this! He thought he was the King of England on top of the canopies! There was a yellow helicopter up above for quite some time in the afternoon. It may have been a seaking helicopter.

What they should have done was use a seaking helicopter with a couple of Police officers hanging from the winch on ropes. Then guide them towards the male. They could then use a taser on him or cs spray to overcome him. Or use the two officers to grab him and restrain him, without even touching the roof, so the weight wouldn't affect the canopy. After they have grabbed him, lower him down to ground level. Job done! In America it wouldn't have taken this long I can tell you that now!

How about a swap - you tell me how it would be done in America and I would be quite willing to tell you about the landfill sized proportions of rubbish you're talking?

 

[GB]

I saw this! He thought he was the King of England on top of the canopies! There was a yellow helicopter up above for quite some time in the afternoon. It may have been a seaking helicopter.

What they should have done was use a seaking helicopter with a couple of Police officers hanging from the winch on ropes. Then guide them towards the male. They could then use a taser on him or cs spray to overcome him. Or use the two officers to grab him and restrain him, without even touching the roof, so the weight wouldn't affect the canopy. After they have grabbed him, lower him down to ground level. Job done! In America it wouldn't have taken this long I can tell you that now!

This is neither America nor a movie set.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Really? What use would that be to a terrorist? A terrorist would be far more likely to just board a train!

They could plant bombs on top of the roof! Then detonate them, causing collapse of the station building onto persons below, and even onto trains if at the station! Can you imagine if there was an oil or chemical train coming through? Also blocking the GE mainline!

 

[transmanche]

They could plant bombs on top of the roof! Then detonate them, causing collapse of the station building onto persons below, and even onto trains if at the station! Can you imagine if there was an oil or chemical train coming through? Also blocking the GE mainline!

I think you've been watching too many American films...

 

[Prairie_5542]

I think you've been watching too many American films...

That would be a big NO!

These things do happen and will!! Look how easy it was for him to get on the roof and the distruption it caused!!Just 1 man!!

'Thinking outside the box' never hurt anyone!

It took too long to get him down! Fact! Other means should have been tried!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Well he's mentally with it enough to be worried about sunburn - has now removed his shorts, using them to cover his shoulders and stop them getting burnt!

Although a disregard for pain can be a sign of mental illness, not wishing to endure pain isn't an instant disqualification for being mentally ill.

Better had he been provided with the sharp end of a pointed stick, a blast from a fireman's hose or a Taser to encourage him down.

It's ludicrous how the authorities pussy-foot around when the selfish actions of an individual inconvenience hundreds, if not thousands of people. It's the same when such folk are found on motorway gantries and overbridges, everything gets stopped for hours.

Better they're talked down safely and given the help they require than to risk injury or even death. Nobody in the right frame of mind - except utter twunts - decides to spend the morning inconveniencing thousands of passengers. It happens through impulses, it's a cry for help. There is always a reason why people do it.

Using excessive force - as well as being immoral and potentially causing injury to both parties (a firehose knocking someone off a roof, onto a police officer, smashing the back of head onto a concrete floor as a severe hypothetical situation), damage to property (high-pressure water dislodges a lot of things) - would not help. There's so much possible psychological and physical damage involved, plus the costs of the numerous inquiries that would be set up if someone was severely injured or killed from it...or the inquiries the person or person's family would request...then if the EU got involved...

It's cheaper and more effective to show compassion and care in these situations. Not to mention, y'know, it's the nice thing to do.

They could plant bombs on top of the roof! Then detonate them, causing collapse of the station building onto persons below, and even onto trains if at the station! Can you imagine if there was an oil or chemical train coming through? Also blocking the GE mainline!

Not the Great Eastern Main Line! It was just one day from retirement!

Although what self-respecting terrorist would bomb Ipswich?

 

[transmanche]

These things do happen and will!!

Well I can't remember dozens of roof-related building bombings in the past and I seriously doubt we're going to get a string of them in the future. There are far more important things to worry about.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although what self-respecting terrorist would bomb Ipswich?

Potentially causing thousands of pounds worth of improvements!

 

[GB]

deleted

 

[talltim]

These arguments aways seem to make the assumption that you can't be mentally ill AND selfish

 

[chris89]

These arguments aways seem to make the assumption that you can't be mentally ill AND selfish

It appears quite the opposite to me.

Wait until more has been released to the public, If the person has got Mental Health problems, This is most likely a last call for attention to get the help that is required.

I'm amazed at some posters general attitude towards those who have Mental Health issues.

 

[talltim]

Of course they've got mental health problems, they stayed up on the roof for hours

 

[reb0118]

My view for what it is worth. In the short term:-

1) The man was up there far too long.

a)Tell him to come down, if he refuses then,
b) order him to come down and warn him reasonable force will be used if he refuses, if he again refuses then,
c) force him down, taking as much care as possible for the safety of the police & public.

Simples!

In the longer term: we do not know if this guy had health issues but it would seem that care in the community is not working. Time to secure mental cases that have a predisposition to harm themselves, others, or as in this case inconvenience thousands & cause thousands of pounds of loss &c..

Does anyone remember the nutjob who sat on the North Bridge at Edinburgh and in the process shut the south half of the Waverley station as well as disrupting the east end of the city centre for a whole weekend?

 

[455driver]

They could plant bombs on top of the roof! Then detonate them, causing collapse of the station building onto persons below, and even onto trains if at the station! Can you imagine if there was an oil or chemical train coming through? Also blocking the GE mainline!

The easiest way to bring a roof down is to take out the bottoms of the supports not the tops.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In the longer term: we do not know if this guy had health issues but it would seem that care in the community is not working.

It isn't.

It appears that the total of murders as a result of this system has now reached 900 in 20 years; that's an average of one every 8 days. The highly publicised Jonathan Zito case was just the start.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...failing-mental-health-system-must-change.html

 

[Zoidberg]

...

What an absolutely selfish post :roll:

You are as entitled to that opinion as I am to mine that the authorities ought to act more decisively in such situations.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding this incident, BTP has just Tweeted that:

Following Friday's incident at #Ipswich, a man has been arrested on suspicion of obstructing the railway with intent. Currently in custody

I like the 'in custody' bit, but I guess he'll be bailed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can I ask again if there any reports, since published, that confirm the exact mental state of the trespasser.

 

[transportphoto]

Can I ask again if there any reports, since published, that confirm the exact mental state of the trespasser.

A short answer, would be no. I doubt this kind of information will be published.

TP

 

[Zoidberg]

Can I ask again if there any reports, since published, that confirm the exact mental state of the trespasser.

Well, this article, timed at 14:54 on Saturday, tells how he was being assessed in hospital,

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/i...tion_stand_off_is_still_in_hospital_1_2288586

The armed man who refused to move from the roof of Ipswich’s train station for more than seven hours yesterday is still being assessed in hospital.

This, published yesterday, http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/5025162/Ipswich-station-man-with-knife.html tells that,

He was later assessed by mental health experts on Friday.

But, I've not seen anything about the outcome of the assessments.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how many desperate Eastern European travellers are out there who are desperately seeking a rail ticket to somewhere in Russia ?

 

[Zoidberg]

I wonder how many desperate Eastern European travellers are out there who are desperately seeking a rail ticket to somewhere in Russia ?

I wonder why they are so keen to be russian away from this country.

 

[dk1]

I just look at it this way. He had no interest in how he impacted on my life & I have even less interest in what now happens in his.

 

[Zoidberg]

I just look at it this way. He had no interest in how he impacted on my life & I have even less interest in what now happens in his.

My sentiments exactly (except hat I hope he gets a reciprocal amount of grief in relation to that which he caused thousands of folk).

 

[ushawk]

You are as entitled to that opinion as I am to mine that the authorities ought to act more decisively in such situations.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding this incident, BTP has just Tweeted that:



I like the 'in custody' bit, but I guess he'll be bailed.

If there's a mental health condition, they wouldn't be bailed, even then I doubt they would be down to their own and public safety.

Oh and with regards to them being a terrorist with bombs - the police will have quickly seen he didn't have any - wearing little clothing also shown that !!

 

[broadgage]

I feel that such trespassers should whenever possible be removed much more quickly.
Whilst some care should be taken regarding the safety of the trespasser, IMHO this should not be the overiding concern.

It is stated that he was offered a ladder to get down and declined to use this, so even if suffering from mental illness he must be considered to be the "author of his own misfortunes"
If the mental illness did not stop him getting up to the roof, then it should not stop him getting down either, especialy if offered a ladder.

I fear copycat episodes.

I agree that a terrorist with a bomb is unlikely to go to the trouble of climbing on a roof. The bomb would be easier to use and far more effective in a crowded station or on a busy train.

 

[Wyvern]

Apparently

was trying to return to Lithuania after a week in England but had lost all his belongings, Ipswich magistrates heard.

The tourist tried to use an Oyster Card, a London travel pass, at Ipswich train station, believing the town was part of the capital

But when station staff told him he must pay for his ticket to Stansted Airport, in Essex, he tried to clamber over a roof in a bid to bypass the ticket barriers.

According to the Mail

Lithuanian tourist sparks SEVEN HOUR train delay costing £1million and disrupting 40,000 passengers by climbing on railway station roof when his ticket wasn't accepted

 

[W230]

In the longer term: we do not know if this guy had health issues but it would seem that care in the community is not working.

Sadly this isn't going to change any time soon.

What most likely happened with this geezer is that the officers will have detained him under S136 Mental Health Act and taken him to the hospital (A&E), where they will have waited with him for hours (so that he doesn't walk off and cause more grief) for assessment by the on call Crisis Team (for mental health).

The Crisis Team, who'll have been unavailable for an eternity, will then promptly decide he's just fine now that he's sober/drugs have worn off/he's calmed down (which will quite probably be true) and then discharge him until the next time when the whole process starts again...

Certainly in my experience of dealing with these types of mental health incident (admittedly none on a station roof but countless times in a variety of stand off situations, very often with the same old folks), only once did someone end up sectioned...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The Crisis Team, who'll have been unavailable for an eternity, will then promptly decide he's just fine now that he's sober/drugs have worn off/he's calmed down (which will quite probably be true) and then discharge him until the next time when the whole process starts again...

No, they'll answer the phone at 4:59 and refuse to assess him because he's probably drunk and they all go home at 5.

 

[W230]

No, they'll answer the phone at 4:59 and refuse to assess him because he's probably drunk and they all go home at 5.

You've been there too then!

 

[IanD]

Wonder if his travel insurance would cover the cost of this?

 

[Nick W]

So if the article is correct, the ToC just lost £1m over a £11.55 fare for a tourist who claimed to have lost all his possessions and simply wanted to return home?

I've just travelled back from Italy by train over a three day trip. I'd hate to have been refused travel if I'd been mugged or lost my possessions somehow.