Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

[FinsburyPark]

I made a petition for a cross UK-EU deal to reverse ETA for EU nationals and EES/ETIAS for UK nationals for trips of less than 90 days.

Petition: Seek a UK-EU deal to scrap the Entry/Exit System for travel under 90 days

We ask the Government to work with the EU to seek a deal to prevent UK citizens needing ETIAS when visiting the EU for 90 days or less, and to drop the requirements for EU citizens needing an ETA as well for less than 90 days.

petition.parliament.uk

I myself am a dual national with both a UK and EU (Romania) passports, so none of it applies to me.

I made the petition as this could be something that could be agreed upon in future 'renewing the relationship' negotiations between the UK and the EU.

 

[D6130]

I made a petition for a cross UK-EU deal to reverse ETA for EU nationals and EES/ETIAS for UK nationals for trips of less than 90 days.

Petition: Seek a UK-EU deal to scrap the Entry/Exit System for travel under 90 days

We ask the Government to work with the EU to seek a deal to prevent UK citizens needing ETIAS when visiting the EU for 90 days or less, and to drop the requirements for EU citizens needing an ETA as well for less than 90 days.

petition.parliament.uk

I myself am a dual national with both a UK and EU (Romania) passports, so none of it applies to me.

I made the petition as this could be something that could be agreed upon in future 'renewing the relationship' negotiations between the UK and the EU.

Well done for creating this petition. My wife and I have both signed it.

 

[Howardh]

It does sound like it could get quite messy.I’m thankful we have @Howardh as a guinea pig.

Weds Oct 15th, so a couple of days after it's brought in!

I made a petition for a cross UK-EU deal to reverse ETA for EU nationals and EES/ETIAS for UK nationals for trips of less than 90 days.

Petition: Seek a UK-EU deal to scrap the Entry/Exit System for travel under 90 days

We ask the Government to work with the EU to seek a deal to prevent UK citizens needing ETIAS when visiting the EU for 90 days or less, and to drop the requirements for EU citizens needing an ETA as well for less than 90 days.

petition.parliament.uk

I myself am a dual national with both a UK and EU (Romania) passports, so none of it applies to me.

I made the petition as this could be something that could be agreed upon in future 'renewing the relationship' negotiations between the UK and the EU.

If we don't require the new protocols for trips of under 90 days, we would still have to go through passport stamping and/or EES protocols so there's a record that we haven't overstayed the 90 days?!

Far easier if we agreed (both sides) that tourists who can self-support and have insurance can stay indefinitely and that when you have your passport/ID card you simply tell the border guard you are visiting; just like we used to except then the guards rarely asked anything.

Anyone seeking or obtaining work or permanent housing would need the relevant visa or they would be working/residing illegally. Of course, begs the question if someone stays here in an air/b+b for 12 months, are they still on holiday or permanent? However it would clear the way for our retired to spend the whole winter (4 - 6 months) somewhere sunnier.

back to today - will I be able to go to St Pancras and use one of the booths there before flying out and get the job done; or would you have to be an Eurostar passenger - I assumed the booths would be outside the main Eurostar entrance before the first passport control therefore anyone can use at any time?

 

[Cloud Strife]

back to today - will I be able to go to St Pancras and use one of the booths there before flying out and get the job done; or would you have to be an Eurostar passenger - I assumed the booths would be outside the main Eurostar entrance before the first passport control therefore anyone can use at any time?

Theoretically yes, but it's not a guarantee that the St Pancras will be doing the registration before you fly, and it's still not clear where these machines actually are in St Pancras.

 

[Benjwri]

Theoretically yes, but it's not a guarantee that the St Pancras will be doing the registration before you fly, and it's still not clear where these machines actually are in St Pancras.

The main batch of machines will be opposite the ticket office next to the Thameslink platform entrance. It is currently behind hoardings.

I don’t think you will be able to skip the checks in this way, certainly the official line is you can’t, not sure if/how that’ll be enforced.

 

[FinsburyPark]

I do wonder how this will be managed at the Port of Dover. Due to the juxtaposed controls this will cause this location a lot more administrative difficulty due to them not having the spare land availible.

Come to thing of it Folkestone Le Shuttle terminal probably will suffer similar problems.

As someone put it, because both of these services are vehicle based, the admin will be far more difficult. Particaurly when larger vehicles are bought into the equation like HGVs, coaches and minibuses.

This is a whole different ball game to Aviation.

 

[island]

I do wonder how this will be managed at the Port of Dover. Due to the juxtaposed controls this will cause this location a lot more administrative difficulty due to them not having the spare land availible.

Come to thing of it Folkestone Le Shuttle terminal probably will suffer similar problems.

I understand both sites have been building alternatives but there's certainly space limitations.

As someone put it, because both of these services are vehicle based, the admin will be far more difficult. Particaurly when larger vehicles are bought into the equation like HGVs, coaches and minibuses.

I think coaches and minibuses will actually be less of a difficulty as passengers already all disembark these at the port to go through controls on foot. It is cars and HGVs where passengers previously did not need to get out that will be the biggest change. Presumably a French car with only French people can continue as they did before.

This is a whole different ball game to Aviation.

Indeed.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I do wonder how this will be managed at the Port of Dover.

The system is quite interesting. Dover is building a brand new site for border control next to the old Western Docks, where non-EU travellers will have to park up and get their biometrics taken (fingerprints and photographs) before proceeding to the Eastern Docks.

I'm not 100% certain how it's going to work, but from what I understand, there will be 'drive through' buildings built, where you'll exit the car, the travellers will give their biometric data and they'll be registered against the number plate of the car. Then, at the Eastern Docks, a combination of physical monitoring and ANPR will be used, so the French PAF will be able to see at a glance how many passengers are inside, their names, ages, etc, so they won't need to physically stop every car for passport checking. Between the Western Docks and the Eastern Docks, they're using ANPR and cameras to make sure that there are no 'irregular movements', i.e. leaving the transit route after they've been biometrically checked. Dover is being designed so that the French frontier controls will no longer take place in the Eastern Docks, but rather they'll be completed in the Western Docks (both EES registration and the actual passport check), but I think the selective UK exit checks will remain in the Eastern Docks.

With coaches, I know for certain how it's going to work: they will drive up to a building, where all the passengers will exit. They will then go through airport-style passport control for France, including registration (if needed) for the EES, before walking out and back onto the bus on the other side of the building. The bus will then drive straight to the ferry queue after being 'sealed', which will probably be some sort of tape used to secure the doors of the coach. They definitely won't be checked again at the Eastern Docks.

With the Channel Tunnel at Folkestone, they've created a large drive-through building where you drive in, park up and give the biometrics at individual kiosks. You'll then drive to the actual frontier control for both the UK and France and hand your passport over there. They've created quite a nice system in that you'll be directed at check-in: if the system knows you haven't provided biometrics to the EES based on API, then you'll be told to go to do it, otherwise you'll be told to proceed to passport control.

The difference between Dover and Folkestone appears to be that the Folkestone EES facility will operate as a pre-registration facility only, similar to the kiosks in St Pancras, while the actual passport controls will remain exactly where they are today. Dover on the other hand seems to be trying to convince France to move all their checks to the Western Docks, but it's not certain that they'll drop the physical passport checks in the Eastern Docks. My money is on coaches being permitted to travel through the Eastern Docks without passport control, but everyone else (cars, foot passengers, HGVs) will have their passports physically checked there.

Presumably a French car with only French people can continue as they did before.

Yup, EES won't change anything for EU travellers, they'll just get their documents scanned as usual and no more.

I don’t think you will be able to skip the checks in this way, certainly the official line is you can’t, not sure if/how that’ll be enforced.

It's essentially linked to your travel document: when it gets scanned at the actual passport control, if the biometrics haven't been captured, then you'll be told to go away and register them. So there's no way to skip the checks as such, either you've given them or you haven't.

 

[Benjwri]

It's essentially linked to your travel document: when it gets scanned at the actual passport control, if the biometrics haven't been captured, then you'll be told to go away and register them. So there's no way to skip the checks as such, either you've given them or you haven't.

The post I was replying to I think was thinking of the other way around. Doing the biometric checks when you aren't actually travelling, or earlier than the day before. I don't think this will be possible (Especially without lying on an immigration form, a very poor idea), and regardless you will still have to use the EES kiosks the next time you travel, although the process is shorter.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The post I was replying to I think was thinking of the other way around. Doing the biometric checks when you aren't actually travelling, or earlier than the day before. I don't think this will be possible (Especially without lying on an immigration form, a very poor idea), and regardless you will still have to use the EES kiosks the next time you travel, although the process is shorter.

It's still absolutely unclear as to how this is going to work in practice. I've spent hours looking for definitive answers, and the only thing that I know for sure is that each country seems to be implementing the EES differently: some countries are doing registration at passport control, others are doing it with unattended kiosks or an app before you reach passport control. St Pancras is apparently only going to do registration at passport control at the beginning.

I suspect that in practice, the registration will be invisible to the end user at the kiosks, and that it will work simply as a pre-passport control check. So you'll scan your fingerprints, scan your travel document, get a photo and then you'll (possibly) be asked some questions. There won't be a difference between 'registration' and 'travelling' from the user's perspective, it will be a single process.

 

[Benjwri]

It's still absolutely unclear as to how this is going to work in practice. I've spent hours looking for definitive answers, and the only thing that I know for sure is that each country seems to be implementing the EES differently: some countries are doing registration at passport control, others are doing it with unattended kiosks or an app before you reach passport control. St Pancras is apparently only going to do registration at passport control at the beginning.

I suspect that in practice, the registration will be invisible to the end user at the kiosks, and that it will work simply as a pre-passport control check. So you'll scan your fingerprints, scan your travel document, get a photo and then you'll (possibly) be asked some questions. There won't be a difference between 'registration' and 'travelling' from the user's perspective, it will be a single process.

I must say I have abit of extra knowledge of this, but the plan is for travellers to use EES kiosks before entering the queue for tickets. I mentioned in my earlier post where th main bank of kiosks will be. This will also be the process at Gare du Nord. At other entry points the EES formalities happen at the passport desk.

It absolutely will be noticeable and will result in extra wait time for non eu nationals. They will queue separately to undertake this, and the queue will very likely be longer than existing ones. The only benefit is it will eventually be quicker at the passport check later.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I must say I have abit of extra knowledge of this, but the plan is for travellers to use EES kiosks before entering the queue for tickets. I mentioned in my earlier post where th main bank of kiosks will be. This will also be the process at Gare du Nord. At other entry points the EES formalities happen at the passport desk.

This is the theory, but it will be interesting to see how it's implemented in practice, and whether the kiosks are actually going to be in use from Day 1 of the EES. Eurostar is saying that they won't be, however, except for certain passengers.

Actually, the major issue right now isn't so much the infrastructure in the UK, but rather the infrastructure at other land borders. Quite a few countries (for example, Croatia) have gone down the route of handling the EES formalities at the traditional police booths, which means that there's going to be terrible queues at land borders if people have to get out of their cars to deal with the biometrics.

 

[Benjwri]

This is the theory, but it will be interesting to see how it's implemented in practice, and whether the kiosks are actually going to be in use from Day 1 of the EES. Eurostar is saying that they won't be, however, except for certain passengers.

Yes as is the nature of EES. However as time goes on they will come into use and that’s when the issue will start. People have to use the kiosks every trip. By the end of the implementation there will be significant queues at busy times.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yes as is the nature of EES. However as time goes on they will come into use and that’s when the issue will start. People have to use the kiosks every trip. By the end of the implementation there will be significant queues at busy times.

It actually might be much better in practice, because the kiosks will remove most of the current issues with throughput. You can always install more kiosks, St Pancras has plenty of room for them in various parts of the building, and even Gare du Nord could easily host them in other parts of the station, and the actual physical passport check will be much faster. I've seen one implementation by Thales which uses cameras to automatically bring up the details of the person presenting themselves, which will speed things up even more.

The major issue might well be at the other stations where the EES data collection will be carried out at the desks.

 

[Benjwri]

It actually might be much better in practice, because the kiosks will remove most of the current issues with throughput. You can always install more kiosks, St Pancras has plenty of room for them in various parts of the building, and even Gare du Nord could easily host them in other parts of the station, and the actual physical passport check will be much faster. I've seen one implementation by Thales which uses cameras to automatically bring up the details of the person presenting themselves, which will speed things up even more.

The major issue might well be at the other stations where the EES data collection will be carried out at the desks.

While there might be more room, the current addition has taken a quite large amount of time, and more will not come quickly. They are very expensive. Not to mention any more will require removal of more retail space which HS1 are hesitant to do. I think it has to be accepted that in the short term this will cause issues.

 

[FinsburyPark]

It actually might be much better in practice, because the kiosks will remove most of the current issues with throughput. You can always install more kiosks, St Pancras has plenty of room for them in various parts of the building, and even Gare du Nord could easily host them in other parts of the station, and the actual physical passport check will be much faster. I've seen one implementation by Thales which uses cameras to automatically bring up the details of the person presenting themselves, which will speed things up even more.

The major issue might well be at the other stations where the EES data collection will be carried out at the desks.

Why would there be exit EES controls. Once inside schengen, you are already in.

As an EU passport holder I'm well aware that Schengen has both entry and exit passport control.

What I am confused about is that I was told that once you've done it (for non EU nationals), then you've done it and dont need to again for 3 years.

For example someone travelling on a British passport from London to Paris would do it upon arriving in Paris, and if they took a flight 3 months later to Amsterdam, would not need to as they've already done it.

So I'm confused at why there would be exit EES controls to leave Schengen area as well as exit passport control.

 

[Benjwri]

Why would there be exit EES controls. Once inside schengen, you are already in.

As an EU passport holder I'm well aware that Schengen has both entry and exit passport control.

What I am confused about is that I was told that once you've done it (for non EU nationals), then you've done it and dont need to again for 3 years.

For example someone travelling on a British passport from London to Paris would do it upon arriving in Paris, and if they took a flight 3 months later to Amsterdam, would not need to as they've already done it.

So I'm confused at why there would be exit EES controls to leave Schengen area as well as exit passport control.

The once you’ve done it you don’t have to do it again story is a common myth. You have to do it every time, it is just that subsequent times will be a bit quicker as you do not need to register biometrics etc.

You do still need to do it on exit, but it will be fairly brief as obviously you don’t need to answer the questions about reason for visit etc. It will be fairly invisible at a lot of places because the exit one will just be done at the passport booth (Although not Gare du Nord)

 

[signed]

What I am confused about is that I was told that once you've done it (for non EU nationals), then you've done it and dont need to again for 3 years.

non-EU/EEA/CH... citizens will register biometrics once every 3 years, every other entries you will get your passport scanned at the booth/gate/desk and that's going to be pretty much it AFAICT

 

[Benjwri]

non-EU/EEA/CH... citizens will register biometrics once every 3 years, every other entries you will get your passport scanned at the booth/gate/desk and that's going to be pretty much it AFAICT

You will get you passport scanned and usually just facial scan checked. You also have to be asked the entry questions every time. At entry points that don’t have kiosks it won’t be too noticeable, except it will take longer with the questions at the desk, as they don’t always bother to ask them.

At entry points with kiosks you will have to use the kiosk every time to answer the screening questions. It will be a quicker process but still have to be done on the kiosk.

 

[cool110]

Why would there be exit EES controls. Once inside schengen, you are already in.
As an EU passport holder I'm well aware that Schengen has both entry and exit passport control.
So I'm confused at why there would be exit EES controls to leave Schengen area as well as exit passport control.

That's what the second E is and EES is a replacement for physical stamps at passport control, not a separate control like EITAS will be. Most of the time it'll just be verification which can be done with standard e-gates, but the ability for full registration will still be needed for people already in schengen when it starts or get a new passport.

 

[Cloud Strife]

So I'm confused at why there would be exit EES controls to leave Schengen area as well as exit passport control.

Essentially, it seems that they're separating the biometric checks from the passport check at Gare du Nord, because of the lack of capacity there. That means they will save time by having the biometrics already recorded, so all that will be required is a scan of the passport at the manual check.

What I am confused about is that I was told that once you've done it (for non EU nationals), then you've done it and dont need to again for 3 years.

This is because the St Pancras and Gare du Nord implementation is a bit different to elsewhere. At most border crossings, if the kiosks exist, then this is for registering your biometric data once every 3 years. So, once you've done it, you just go to passport control like normal.

At St Pancras and Gare du Nord (and possibly Dover, but this needs to be confirmed), they have implemented a hybrid system where the EES kiosks work as a 'first step' of passport control, so travellers need to use them every time. It's not going to be the norm at the vast majority of border crossings.

This is probably why the EES registration will only be possible on the day, as the kiosks will perform a 'dual role' with registration and passport control.

 

[FinsburyPark]

There are plenty of ways an entry or exit could be recorded without the corresponding entry or exit

1) passport was renewed inside Schengen because previous one was lost/stolen/damged.

2) dual national non EU/EU citizen enters or exits on wrong passport by mistake

3) transition period between stamping and full EES

4) a person who has rights to EU citizenship but hasn't got that citizenship finalised, or havent got that new passport. This person enters on their non EU/EEA/Swiss passport for 90 days, and gets citizenship finalised and passpirt acquired while inside Schengen. Then leaves on EEA/Swiss passport. There was a woman who stayed in Sweeden for 90 days and had close contact with Italian embassy in Sweeden. She had done the majority of the work to get Italian citizenship by descent back in her home country and the verdicct came back while she was staying in Sweeden. She did the remaining paperwork and got the Italian passport while in Sweeden and left schengen on the Italian passport. This was on youtube so I knoew its rare but it does happen.

 

[eoff]

The do care about matching the stamps at the moment, my passport has pages of EU stamps (some arranged quite neatly) and the agent at Schiphol couldn't find the entry one on Thursday and even the second agent he gave the passport to took a while. I was even looking for my previous boarding pass to keep them happy unti lthey found the stamp.
Not sure how they will check the number of days in a year rule in future as I will have a new passport for travel in October.

 

[Benjwri]

The do care about matching the stamps at the moment, my passport has pages of EU stamps (some arranged quite neatly) and the agent at Schiphol couldn't find the entry one on Thursday and even the second agent he gave the passport to took a while. I was even looking for my previous boarding pass to keep them happy unti lthey found the stamp.
Not sure how they will check the number of days in a year rule in future as I will have a new passport for travel in October.

They can already see the number of days on their system, it’s just an extra rule they have to find the stamp.

Last week they couldn’t find my entry stamp for a bit but could tell me the date I entered and how many days I’d been in the EU in the last 180 days when I asked.

 

[Cloud Strife]

They can already see the number of days on their system

Not everywhere. The Schengen-wide system won't go live until EES is introduced, so it's very much dependent on the individual Schengen state as to whether they share the entry/exit logs with other states. Some countries are logging and sharing everything, but there still isn't a complete record available to member states. The reason why they'll keep stamps for the first six months is to ensure that the logging is working as intended.

There are plenty of ways an entry or exit could be recorded without the corresponding entry or exit

Indeed, this is one reason why an electronic system is far better than relying on stamps. My British passport post-Brexit is completely inconsistent because I've been using it in an inconsistent way, so as it stands, I've entered Spain at La Linea in February and haven't left since. Before that, I'd been in Romania since August 2023, and I somehow (according to the passport) teleported to Gibraltar at some point. In reality, I left Romania/entered Hungary using my Polish ID card, and then I left Spain/entered Gibraltar using the same.

Once the EES comes in, it should mean that all entries and exits are linked up, and that anyone using multiple travel documents (like me) will be visible under one record. So, once the EES comes in, I'll have to do some travelling to find out if this is indeed the case.

 

[FinsburyPark]

If you use British documents you would be treated like any other Brit, and given a stamp, or need to use EES.

If you use Polish documents non of the above would apply.

If you mix and match, enter on one and leave on the other, i dont know.

*all is as i know it.

 

[eoff]

...
If we don't require the new protocols for trips of under 90 days, we would still have to go through passport stamping and/or EES protocols so there's a record that we haven't overstayed the 90 days?!

...

Just back from a trip (UK to Dublin) and I'm now wondering if this is a gaping hole in any EU tracking system.

 

[m0ffy]

Just back from a trip (UK to Dublin) and I'm now wondering if this is a gaping hole in any EU tracking system.

Ireland is outside Schengen and your time there doesn’t count against the 90/180 rule in the zone.

 

[Howardh]

Ireland is outside Schengen and your time there doesn’t count against the 90/180 rule in the zone.

And, of course, Irish citizens aren't restricted at all when in Schengen as EU's/EEA's aren't in R of Ireland.

Must be noted that if they cross the border into the UK, there's no record of that crossing so (a) we don't know they're here and (b) we don't, therefore, know how long they've been here. Obviously decent hotels will have some kind of record when they book in, but that won't apply if they stay with friends, family or even "wild". To be honest that shouldn't be an issue at all if they can support themselves, which makes it doubly crazy the EU putting restrictions on those of us that can support ourselves.

 

[signed]

Must be noted that if they cross the border into the UK, there's no record of that crossing so (a) we don't know they're here and (b) we don't, therefore, know how long they've been here.

Is there not API (Advance Passenger Information) sharing in the CTA?

I know RoI and the UK take the CTA very differently and that for sure the UK gets the information from the Irish border controls/from the carriers when going UK->IE.

As I have done FR-UK-IE and have been able to reenter the UK months after that.

It wouldn't surprise me but be very curious that ferries or airlines don't pass API to the UK when going RoI-UK (RoI-NI is very different I know)