Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

[stadler]

ESTA is required to enter the US by land. So the only way to get into Canada without an eTA is by cruise ship, or ferry from St Pierre. The only way to get into St Pierre besides from Canada is by seasonal flight from France, which will require ETIAS.

I think payment would be by card rather than by bank transfer? Visa, Mastercard and Amex do not check the cardholder's name when making online payments.

Oh it seems that the USA changed that recently. I had never realised. I just checked and up until the 01st of October in 2022 about two and a half years ago the ESTA visa was for air only. So you used to be able to enter the USA by land or sea without anything. That is such a backwards step.

Technically you could you could still get to Canada with just an ESTA visa and no ETA visa if you planned on visiting the USA beforehand and then crossing in to Canada by land. Canada still allows anyone to enter from the USA land border without an ETA visa. But that still requires an ESTA so it is not much different. A cruise ship or cargo ship or private boat to Canada is indeed the only way to avoid any of these sorts of these online authorisation visa things.

One thing that Canada and the USA do which is very sensible is that they both exempt each other from the ETA and ESTA requirements. Citizens of Canada can visit the USA (by air or land or sea) without an ESTA visa. Citizens of the USA can visit Canada (by air or land or sea) without an ETA visa. This makes a lot of sense and i always think it is such a shame that we could not do similar. It would be good if the UK and the Schengen area could make an agreement where UK citizens do not require an ETIAS visa and in return Schengen citizens do not require an ETA visa. It would make so much sense considering that we are neighbours. It would be good if this could be considered maybe as part of some wider deal between the UK and the Schengen countries.

 

[Brubulus]

Oh it seems that the USA changed that recently. I had never realised. I just checked and up until the 01st of October in 2022 about two and a half years ago the ESTA visa was for air only. So you used to be able to enter the USA by land or sea without anything. That is such a backwards step.

Technically you could you could still get to Canada with just an ESTA visa and no ETA visa if you planned on visiting the USA beforehand and then crossing in to Canada by land. Canada still allows anyone to enter from the USA land border without an ETA visa. But that still requires an ESTA so it is not much different. A cruise ship or cargo ship or private boat to Canada is indeed the only way to avoid any of these sorts of these online authorisation visa things.

One thing that Canada and the USA do which is very sensible is that they both exempt each other from the ETA and ESTA requirements. Citizens of Canada can visit the USA (by air or land or sea) without an ESTA visa. Citizens of the USA can visit Canada (by air or land or sea) without an ETA visa. This makes a lot of sense and i always think it is such a shame that we could not do similar. It would be good if the UK and the Schengen area could make an agreement where UK citizens do not require an ETIAS visa and in return Schengen citizens do not require an ETA visa. It would make so much sense considering that we are neighbours. It would be good if this could be considered maybe as part of some wider deal between the UK and the Schengen countries.

The problem is that the EU will see such a deal as heavily weighted towards the UK for reasons unknown. Starmer wasn't able to get a blanket commitment from the EU for member states to use E Gates for UK citizens, even though EU citizens can use E gates to enter the UK.

However, at least this time we have the leverage of requiring EU citizens to purchase an ETA, which while ridiculous in my opinion, gives us the leverage we need to get it removed for UK citizens.

 

[Starmill]

It would have to be for travellers on the day only, because passport and frontier formalities take place after you have passed through the ticket barriers and security....unless, of course, they set up a temporary booth on the concourse, which I think is highly unlikely because of financial and space considerations.

I believe it's the retail unit that was previously a Benugo. Eurostar are now renting it.

 

[43096]

I struggle to believe that there's anyone who travels internationally who doesn't have a bank account. I also struggle to believe there will be any who can't access the internet who travel abroad.

It’s the standard forum response to bring up such niche cases. Numerous examples over the years!

 

[TheWierdOne]

Starmer wasn't able to get a blanket commitment from the EU for member states to use E Gates for UK citizens, even though EU citizens can use E gates to enter the UK.

The reason for this is that E-Gates are not the same across the EU, all the countries that currently have E-Gates installed at ports of entry have different systems and different rules in which non-Schengen countries can use them.

 

[signed]

The problem is that the EU will see such a deal as heavily weighted towards the UK for reasons unknown. Starmer wasn't able to get a blanket commitment from the EU for member states to use E Gates for UK citizens, even though EU citizens can use E gates to enter the UK.

eGates are a national law matter, so they can't without making an agreement with every country that has them

 

[Howardh]

The reason for this is that E-Gates are not the same across the EU, all the countries that currently have E-Gates installed at ports of entry have different systems and different rules in which non-Schengen countries can use them.

When I visit Ibiza I use the E-gates with my UK passport, after being scanned I then have to go to the immigration control for my passport stamp. Last time I went I noted a lot of "new" e-gates away from the old ones (not sure if they had been permanently installed or were just waiting for installation). Possibly meaning that the "old" gates wouldn't be able to take fingerprints, and possibly not even noting the date of entry (hence having to get it stamped).

Whether or not the "old" gates can be updated so we can avoid stamping, or whether there will be two types/lanes so one for non-EU citizens with prior authorisation (EES/ETIAS) and another set for EU citizens (those returning + Irish) will be interesting to see.

Also wonder if the new e-gates get used by all, so it can tell if it's an EU passport therefore buzzes them through by just scanning the eye and matching with the passport, and a non-EU where the gate will instantly check pre-entry protocols have been done? That should take seconds, but you can bet there will be lots of cases where the gate either gives a false negative (thus holding up those behind) or the person hasn't completed the protocols (ditto)!!

One thing's guaranteed, there will be plenty of youtubers (and, no doubt, Simon Calder of the Independent!) taking us through it all; as long as they are alowed to film in "sensative" areas.

 

[island]

Technically you could you could still get to Canada with just an ESTA visa and no ETA visa if you planned on visiting the USA beforehand and then crossing in to Canada by land. Canada still allows anyone to enter from the USA land border without an ETA visa. But that still requires an ESTA so it is not much different. A cruise ship or cargo ship or private boat to Canada is indeed the only way to avoid any of these sorts of these online authorisation visa things.

If you were extremely dedicated you could probably contrive something via St Pierre & Miquelon which has flights from Paris

 

[zero]

If you were extremely dedicated you could probably contrive something via St Pierre & Miquelon which has flights from Paris

I already said that - and won't work once France requires an ETIAS

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know what is happening with the Faroe Islands and Greenland once EES and ETIAS get introduced. I can not find any information online. These two places have always been an oddity. Neither of them are Schengen members but yet they have no border control to or from Schengen countries meaning that they act like Schengen members. So technically your 90 days within 180 days does not even apply in these two places at present even though that is difficult to prove and they use Schengen passport stamps. Schengen visas are also not valid (although enforcement is practically impossible) and according to the Danish immigration websites you need separate visas (if you are not eligible for visa free travel) or a Danish issued Schengen visa with special endorsements to visit them.

You can get to both without going to a Schengen country. Faroes Islands has scheduled commercial flights to and from Edinburgh (UK) and London Gatwick (UK) and New York City Stewart (USA) airports. Greenland has scheduled commercial flights to and from Iqaluit (Canada) and New York City Newark (USA) airports. Plus of course you could also get to both of these places by private boat or private aeroplane.

How will this work once EES and ETIAS get rolled out soon. Have they decided to make Faroe Islands and Greenland part of Schengen and join the EES and ETIAS soon. Or will it remain how it is. If it is staying the same then Faroe Islands and Greenland will be a loophole to visit the Schengen area without EES and ETIAS required. You will be able to simply get a flight to Faroe Islands or Greenland from another country (one of the flights from a non Schengen country) and then make your way in to the Schengen area by another aeroplane or ferry with no extra checks and no EES and ETIAS required. So this could end up being a loophole.

 

[Howardh]

Does anyone know what is happening with the Faroe Islands and Greenland once EES and ETIAS get introduced. I can not find any information online. These two places have always been an oddity. Neither of them are Schengen members but yet they have no border control to or from Schengen countries meaning that they act like Schengen members. So technically your 90 days within 180 days does not even apply in these two places at present even though that is difficult to prove and they use Schengen passport stamps. Schengen visas are also not valid (although enforcement is practically impossible) and according to the Danish immigration websites you need separate visas (if you are not eligible for visa free travel) or a Danish issued Schengen visa with special endorsements to visit them.

You can get to both without going to a Schengen country. Faroes Islands has scheduled commercial flights to and from Edinburgh (UK) and London Gatwick (UK) and New York City Stewart (USA) airports. Greenland has scheduled commercial flights to and from Iqaluit (Canada) and New York City Newark (USA) airports. Plus of course you could also get to both of these places by private boat or private aeroplane.

How will this work once EES and ETIAS get rolled out soon. Have they decided to make Faroe Islands and Greenland part of Schengen and join the EES and ETIAS soon. Or will it remain how it is. If it is staying the same then Faroe Islands and Greenland will be a loophole to visit the Schengen area without EES and ETIAS required. You will be able to simply get a flight to Faroe Islands or Greenland from another country (one of the flights from a non Schengen country) and then make your way in to the Schengen area by another aeroplane or ferry with no extra checks and no EES and ETIAS required. So this could end up being a loophole.

The loophole may well not exist, as it doesn't if a UK travels freely to Dublin, would have to go through passport to get a flight from there to the EU even though Ireland isn't in Schengen.
This will apply to Gibraltar too!
But more specifically if you travel to Faeros you will use your passport but I assume not be subject to EES or Schengen limits, but flying from Faroes to, say, Copenhagen, you would be. Not sure whether those limits apply to Faroese, they ( like the Irish) could have special status.
So no way round, unlike EUs in R of Ireland who can freely cross the border into the UK unchecked!

 

[stadler]

The loophole may well not exist, as it doesn't if a UK travels freely to Dublin, would have to go through passport to get a flight from there to the EU even though Ireland isn't in Schengen.
This will apply to Gibraltar too!
But more specifically if you travel to Faeros you will use your passport but I assume not be subject to EES or Schengen limits, but flying from Faroes to, say, Copenhagen, you would be. Not sure whether those limits apply to Faroese, they ( like the Irish) could have special status.
So no way round, unlike EUs in R of Ireland who can freely cross the border into the UK unchecked!

But there are no border control checks when taking an aeroplane or ferry from the Faroe Islands or Greenland to Mainland Denmark or any other Mainland European countries. So requiring EES and ETIAS to go to from the Faroe Islands and Greenland is impossible. I very highly doubt that Denmark would agree to introduce internal border controls.

They could say that EES and ETIAS are required to go from Faroes Islands and Greenland to Mainland Europe and Denmark but enforcement would be impossible. They are basically considered to be domestic flights and domestic ferries and there are no border control checks. So in reality EES and ETIAS would not apply.

The only solution to avoid a loophole would be for Faroe Islands and Greenland to officially become Schengen members and join the EES and ETIAS schemes. But i have not heard any plans for that to happen so who knows. I would not be surprised if this does end up turning in to another loophole.

I am always so surprised the UK and Ireland have never introduced a joint visa and immigration policy like the Schengen countries have. There has always been some nationalities that are visa free to go to the UK but require a visa to go to Ireland (but they can get around this by entering the UK first and then crossing in to Ireland). There has always been some nationalities that are visa free to go to Ireland but require a visa to go to the UK (but they can get around this by entering Ireland first and then crossing in to the UK). Then of course now Ireland offers a very easy way to avoid the ETA visa. Anyone who does not want an ETA can simply fly to Ireland and then cross in to the UK by land. So i kind it defeats the whole purpose of the UK introducing ETA when we have such an easy loophole to avoid it.

 

[Howardh]

I understand Svalbard requires no visa or other permit other than a passport, but as all flights appear to fly from Norway, one requires EES to get into Norway from the UK therefore by default, an EES for Svalbard!

Not sure if cruise ships direct from the UK call there!!

Please let me know if other countries fly to Svalbard?

 

[cool110]

Please let me know if other countries fly to Svalbard?

There are charter fights from Russia, although for the coal miners rather than tourists.

 

[stadler]

I understand Svalbard requires no visa or other permit other than a passport, but as all flights appear to fly from Norway, one requires EES to get into Norway from the UK therefore by default, an EES for Svalbard!

Not sure if cruise ships direct from the UK call there!!

Please let me know if other countries fly to Svalbard?

Svalbard is very different in that it is considered an international flight and border control applies in whatever country you are flying to and from. Flights to and from Mainland Norway arrive and depart at the international areas of the Norwegian airports. So when leaving Mainland Norway you go through border control and get stamped out of the Schengen area and when entering Mainland Norway you go through border control and get stamped in to the Schengen area. But yes in Svalbard itself they have no border control. But you can not get to or from Svalbard without going through border control and of course EES and ETIAS will apply when arriving and departing the Norwegian airports on Svalbard flights.

The only scheduled commercial flights are to and from Oslo and Tromso and Ny Alesund in Norway and to and from Moscow Vnukovo and Murmansk in Russia too. Plus some occasional special charter flights to and from other countries. But at all these airports in both Mainland Norway and Russia and other countries you will go through border control when departing and arriving.

There are indeed regular calls on cruise ships and cargo ships especially in the summer period so you can also get there by boat. Very occasionally cruises from the UK have called but it is normally more local Norwegian cruises. Again you would go through border control when arriving and departing the ports in Mainland Norway or Russia or wherever you had sailed from.

 

[zero]

The loophole may well not exist, as it doesn't if a UK travels freely to Dublin, would have to go through passport to get a flight from there to the EU even though Ireland isn't in Schengen.
This will apply to Gibraltar too!
But more specifically if you travel to Faeros you will use your passport but I assume not be subject to EES or Schengen limits, but flying from Faroes to, say, Copenhagen, you would be. Not sure whether those limits apply to Faroese, they ( like the Irish) could have special status.
So no way round, unlike EUs in R of Ireland who can freely cross the border into the UK unchecked!

It would be a loophole because there are no checks from Faroes to Denmark. You can go to the Faroes for 90 days and then immediately have a further 90 days in Schengen or vice versa. So it does seem that if you want to avoid biometric capture going to the Faroes may be a way around it. Legally you would need an ETIAS to proceed to Denmark. I imagine that the airline check-in systems may eventually be programmed to require ETIAS - like Ireland to GB flights may eventually be programmed to check for a UK ETA (currently airlines only check UK ETAs manually on all flights to the UK).

What special status for Irish people are you referring to?

There is no Faroese citizenship. Faroese and Greenlandic people are Danish citizens and they all have the same rights regarding the EU. A Faroese passport has a different design but is functionally the same as a Danish passport. Whilst in the Faroes, Danish citizens (including "native" Faroese) are not regarded as EU citizens.

Nordic citizens (DK,FI,IS,NO,SE) have the right to live and work in the Faroes, but not Greenland. EU citizens who are not Nordic citizens don't have that right.

When the UK was in the EU, Channel Islanders and Manx had to have a connection with the UK before they could exercise EU free movement rights, and JE/GG/IM passports were marked with this restriction. However, Faroese people are treated as EU citizens in the EU without needing to have a connection with Denmark first.

If I understand the Gibraltar-Schengen agreement correctly, it seems that Gibraltar will not be part of Schengen in name only. British citizens resident in Gibraltar would theoretically only be able to spend 90 out of 180 days in Schengen and then would need to return to Gibraltar? This would be difficult to enforce in practice.

Most non-EU citizens resident in the EU can also only spend 90 out of 180 days in Schengen countries other than the one where they are resident.

Australia, New Zealand and US citizens benefit from pre-Schengen agreements where they can spend up to 90 continuous days in some individual Schengen countries without it counting towards the remaining time in Schengen. For Americans, this seems to be discretionary while AU/NZ do not require advance approval. If taking full advantage, the ETIAS on an NZ passport could expire before they would have to legally depart Schengen.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that the purpose of this thread is to allow discussion of the Introduction of EES.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they must start a new thread elsewhere.

I've split several posts that were not discussing the Introduction of EES to this thread:

Passport and associated rights discussion

Moderator note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/introduction-of-ees.273859/ Legally you would need an ETIAS to proceed to Denmark. Yes, it's highly likely that they'll be checking this in the Faroes and Greenland for non-Nordic passengers to ensure that they're permitted...

www.railforums.co.uk

thanks

 

[Amos]

Apparently the EES will start operating from 12th October.

European Union - EES / ETIAS

travel-europe.europa.eu

The new Entry/Exit System (EES) will start operations on 12 October 2025. European countries using the EES will introduce the system gradually at their external borders. This means that data collection will be gradually introduced at border crossing points with full implementation by 10 April 2026. For more information – see What does progressive start of the EES mean?

 

[Howardh]

Apparently the EES will start operating from 12th October.

European Union - EES / ETIAS

travel-europe.europa.eu

The new Entry/Exit System (EES) will start operations on 12 October 2025. European countries using the EES will introduce the system gradually at their external borders. This means that data collection will be gradually introduced at border crossing points with full implementation by 10 April 2026. For more information – see What does progressive start of the EES mean?

Looks like I will be one of the first to use this. Landing on the 14th mid-evening (Ibiza) although if several non-EU planes arrive at the same time I expect only a few will be processed and the rest get their stamps, as it's being gradually brought in as I understand.

Question is, if I want to be EESed but I'm directed down the "old" lanes, can I ask to be printed and scanned so it's over and done with for 3 years?

Another Q, if one is processed early, and then a year later the ETIAS done, when does each have to be done again? They both run for three years, but they won't be in sync!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2025 ==

Apparently the EES will start operating from 12th October.

European Union - EES / ETIAS

travel-europe.europa.eu

The new Entry/Exit System (EES) will start operations on 12 October 2025. European countries using the EES will introduce the system gradually at their external borders. This means that data collection will be gradually introduced at border crossing points with full implementation by 10 April 2026. For more information – see What does progressive start of the EES mean?

As I alluded to above, progressive introduction means only some will be done immediately - could be as low as 10% (?) presumably what dictates will be the length/volume of queues I suppose.

 

[Amos]

From what I could gather the registration will be done at the departure point rather than arrival, but whether everyone on a certain flight will be registered isn’t quite clear.Still seems to be a little bit of a work in progress.

 

[signed]

From what I could gather the registration will be done at the departure point rather than arrival, but whether everyone on a certain flight will be registered isn’t quite clear.Still seems to be a little bit of a work in progress.

Apart from where there are juxtaposed controls, I struggle to see how they would do that.

 

[Belperpete]

From what I could gather the registration will be done at the departure point rather than arrival, but whether everyone on a certain flight will be registered isn’t quite clear.Still seems to be a little bit of a work in progress.

I think I read somewhere that they will be picking a certain percentage off each flight? Presumably increasing that percentage as time goes on, until by April it will be 100% off each flight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2025 ==

I admit that I am confused by this. At the airports that I have been through, the data registration terminals were not at the passport gates, just in the secure departure/arrivals area. How are they going to select the people to register? Just randomly pick on people who happen to be wandering around there? What if you have already registered - will they insist you use the terminal again?

I entered my details on one of the booths at Prague airport earlier this year, as I had time to spare. Will I have to do it again, or will my details still be stored?

 

[Howardh]

From what I could gather the registration will be done at the departure point rather than arrival, but whether everyone on a certain flight will be registered isn’t quite clear.Still seems to be a little bit of a work in progress.

Only at certain ports, eg Dover and St Pancras where French/Schengen immigration is on UK soil? I can't imagine being processed at Manchester Airport before I fly out; although that would be a very useful development if there was the choice.

 

[Amos]

Only at certain ports, eg Dover and St Pancras where French/Schengen immigration is on UK soil? I can't imagine being processed at Manchester Airport before I fly out; although that would be a very useful development if there was the choice.

Stamps to be replaced with biometrics at EU border from 12 October

UK citizens will have to submit fingerprints and an image of their face to enter the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

The data will be collected at the point of departure - either at an airport, port or train station - where there will be dedicated booths for scanning fingerprints and taking a photo.
This suggests to me that it may be at any departure point,but given the use of the phrase “train station” I am not convinced by the accuracy of the article

 

[Howardh]

Stamps to be replaced with biometrics at EU border from 12 October

UK citizens will have to submit fingerprints and an image of their face to enter the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

The data will be collected at the point of departure - either at an airport, port or train station - where there will be dedicated booths for scanning fingerprints and taking a photo.
This suggests to me that it may be at any departure point,but given the use of the phrase “train station” I am not convinced by the accuracy of the article

I'm not aware of any UK airport installing data collection points and I'd love to stand corrected! Certainly in my trips from Manchester airport I've seen nothing being prepared, however I've only departed (to Schengen) from T1 and T3, whereas T2 has been thoroughly redeveloped so the technology could be there - and what remains of the airport e used for domestic and non-Schengen departures?

 

[Belperpete]

Stamps to be replaced with biometrics at EU border from 12 October

UK citizens will have to submit fingerprints and an image of their face to enter the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

The data will be collected at the point of departure - either at an airport, port or train station - where there will be dedicated booths for scanning fingerprints and taking a photo.
This suggests to me that it may be at any departure point,but given the use of the phrase “train station” I am not convinced by the accuracy of the article

According to the gov UK website, that only applies at the Port of Dover, Eurotunnel at Folkestone or St Pancras International, where this information will be taken before you leave the UK.

According to the EU website, the intention is that when entering Schengen, you will register your details before you pass through passport control. At Dover, Folkestone and St P, those passport controls have been pushed back to the UK side of the crossing, but when flying they are done at the airport of entry. Which is why there have been rows of booths set up in the secure arrival/departure areas of all the EU airports, so that you can register before going to passport control to exit the airport.

What I am not clear about is how they are going to select their quota of passengers to register. On any arriving flight, some people will be EU citizens who don't need to register, some will be non EU citizens who have already registered, and some will need to register. How are they going to separate those who need to register, and then select a percentage of those to register?

 

[Amos]

It does sound like it could get quite messy.I’m thankful we have @Howardh as a guinea pig.

 

[island]

Stamps to be replaced with biometrics at EU border from 12 October

UK citizens will have to submit fingerprints and an image of their face to enter the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

The data will be collected at the point of departure - either at an airport, port or train station - where there will be dedicated booths for scanning fingerprints and taking a photo.
This suggests to me that it may be at any departure point,but given the use of the phrase “train station” I am not convinced by the accuracy of the article

It won't be collected at UK airports. The legislation requires that the collection is under the supervision of Schengen border guards, and there are none of those at any UK airport. The article is confused.

 

[Howardh]

It does sound like it could get quite messy.I’m thankful we have @Howardh as a guinea pig.

Change of plan, I was thinking of booking the Tuesday*, but now looks like the following day so many may have endured it first!!! I'll know tomorrow when I finally get round to booking!!

*Was either a stupid-o-clock flight with easyjet or a late one with Ryanair - thinking the late one + ordinary delays + EES delays means me getting to my hotel midnight or later - a waste of a (drinking) night!!

I'll update!!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2025 ==

It won't be collected at UK airports. The legislation requires that the collection is under the supervision of Schengen border guards, and there are none of those at any UK airport. The article is confused.

French immigration at St Pancras/Dover are Schengen border guards. They are doing the border control for Belgium and Netherlands too? Same in Gibraltar - eventually - the Spanish working for Schengen there. Although aren't they all covered by "Frontex"?

But UK airports won't have Schengen border guards on our territory as far as I'm aware. maybe that will come one day to speed things up on arrival, surely it's better/cheaper/quicker to prevent undocumented pax travelling in the first place than to deal with them on arrival? That means like Dover/St Pancras, technically ceeding some of our territory to Schengen, but in return like Brussels, once through UK immigration there you are technically, if not geographically, on UK soil.

 

[island]

French immigration at St Pancras/Dover are Schengen border guards.

They are. St Pancras and Dover are not, of course, airports.

They are doing the border control for Belgium and Netherlands too?

The Police aux Frontières at St Pancras, Dover, Cheriton etc. perform entry checks for France. Once in France, one can move onto any other Schengen country in the border-free zone. So they're not, strictly speaking, performing entry checks for Belgium and the Netherlands, albeit that someone inadmissible to Belgium or the Netherlands will also likely be refused entry to France. There are some technical exceptions but nothing that will be of relevance to 99.99% of passengers.

But UK airports won't have Schengen border guards on our territory as far as I'm aware. maybe that will come one day to speed things up on arrival

I think that's unlikely, as it would require a wholesale redesign of UK airports.

surely it's better/cheaper/quicker to prevent undocumented pax travelling in the first place than to deal with them on arrival?

Airlines are required to check passengers' documents before boarding them.