Impressive Pendolino run

[cambsy]

On Tuesday 18th October was on the 18.47 Liverpool Lime Street to Euston which caught at Crewe, this train has a 63 minute booking, net time 61 minutes from Stafford to Watford Junction, which is 116.14 miles and 114 mph average speed if done in net time, we were 4 late from Stafford which gave the driver reason for spirited running, we covered it in 60-61 minutes, didn't take any timings as dark and not expecting anything much, realtime trains shows it taking hour, but it doesn't show exact seconds.

It is an impressive example of what can be achieved with Pendolino's and good driving, when the line is clear of tsr's, none of the speeds were illegal as the speed is governed by Tass, which put brakes on if speed exceeds 127-128 mph, and the ride was smooth as usual, it was good driving, getting maximum out of the traction.

Is this sort of run on this train hard to achieve? is this fastest timed domestic train in the UK? do any of our Pendolino drivers on this forum cover this run and if they do is it hard to do it in net time?

 

[rebmcr]

On Tuesday 18th October was on the 18.47 Liverpool Lime Street to Euston which caught at Crewe, this train has a 63 minute booking, net time 61 minutes from Stafford to Watford Junction, which is 116.14 miles and 114 mph average speed if done in net time, we were 4 late from Stafford which gave the driver reason for spirited running, we covered it in 60-61 minutes, didn't take any timings as dark and not expecting anything much, realtime trains shows it taking hour, but it doesn't show exact seconds.

It is an impressive example of what can be achieved with Pendolino's and good driving, when the line is clear of tsr's, none of the speeds were illegal as the speed is governed by Tass, which put brakes on if speed exceeds 127-128 mph, and the ride was smooth as usual, it was good driving, getting maximum out of the traction.

Is this sort of run on this train hard to achieve? is this fastest timed domestic train in the UK? do any of our Pendolino drivers on this forum cover this run and if they do is it hard to do it in net time?

Whenever I've travelled between Euston & Piccadilly (lots), delays up to 10 minutes have always been caught up by the end. I expect there is some leeway in the driving policy to make this possible (balancing fractional H&S against PPM).

 

[Flying_Turtle]

Time keeping takes precendence over comfort and economy

 

[MidnightFlyer]

One that sadly can't be attempted anymore is the 2 hour Euston-Preston run, which at 208 miles (I think!) isn't as impressive as the above but still rather admirable.

My train on Sunday evening managed Watford to Coventry (76 miles, from a standing start having called at Watford) in 40 minutes. I make that an average speed of 114mph!

 

[dk1]

Time keeping takes precendence over comfort and economy

That's how I drive. After safety the most important thing is punctuality & I do everything possible to claw back time.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Meant to post this with the rest: I believe the (timetabled!) journey leg with the highest average speed in the country is a Hull Trains service northbound involving Grantham. For the life of me I can't remember the details, and it could well have changed since this was about four or five years ago.

 

[The Planner]

On Tuesday 18th October was on the 18.47 Liverpool Lime Street to Euston which caught at Crewe, this train has a 63 minute booking, net time 61 minutes from Stafford to Watford Junction, which is 116.14 miles and 114 mph average speed if done in net time, we were 4 late from Stafford which gave the driver reason for spirited running, we covered it in 60-61 minutes, didn't take any timings as dark and not expecting anything much, realtime trains shows it taking hour, but it doesn't show exact seconds.

It is an impressive example of what can be achieved with Pendolino's and good driving, when the line is clear of tsr's, none of the speeds were illegal as the speed is governed by Tass, which put brakes on if speed exceeds 127-128 mph, and the ride was smooth as usual, it was good driving, getting maximum out of the traction.

Is this sort of run on this train hard to achieve? is this fastest timed domestic train in the UK? do any of our Pendolino drivers on this forum cover this run and if they do is it hard to do it in net time?

If there are no TSRs then every train should beat its schedule as engineering allowance won't get used.

 

[QueensCurve]

On Tuesday 18th October was on the 18.47 Liverpool Lime Street to Euston which caught at Crewe, this train has a 63 minute booking, net time 61 minutes from Stafford to Watford Junction, which is 116.14 miles and 114 mph average speed if done in net time, we were 4 late from Stafford which gave the driver reason for spirited running, we covered it in 60-61 minutes, didn't take any timings as dark and not expecting anything much, realtime trains shows it taking hour, but it doesn't show exact seconds.

Six years ago this week, Traveled from Penrith to Euston and was a few minutes late leaving Warringon. Arrived in Euston 86min later which I also reckoned was a 114mph average.

Saw the driver emerging at Euston and told him it was my fastest run on the route. He said it was his too.

 

[Bald Rick]

One that sadly can't be attempted anymore is the 2 hour Euston-Preston run, which at 208 miles (I think!) isn't as impressive as the above but still rather admirable.

My train on Sunday evening managed Watford to Coventry (76 miles, from a standing start having called at Watford) in 40 minutes. I make that an average speed of 114mph!

I've definitely done Watford to Cov start to stop in under 40 mins, and also Euston to Rugeley in 63 mins.

 

[driver_m]

If you want a fast run then the best train to get is a xx30 first stop Warrington. It should get a clear run if the xx23 doesn't hang around for too long at Watford on it's booked stop. An hours clear running should get you past Tamworth (110m)and be somewhere around Lichfield (116m). Liverpools get held up at Rugby more often then not because of the New St train stopping at Rugby. Xx00 or xx40 to Manchester also get good runs provided the LM units pathed in front keep out of the way. Others can be discounted as they stop enroute.

 

[306024]

If you want a fast run then the best train to get is a xx30 first stop Warrington.

Yep, had a few cracking runs to Warrington on those. At the end of the day you can only go as fast as the train in front (and obviously the line speed) allows.

That's how I drive. After safety the most important thing is punctuality & I do everything possible to claw back time.

Good to see some old school attitudes survive. Had a good run up to Liverpool St in the middle of the morning peak yesterday. Not the fastest run obviously at that time of day but we went fast where needed and slower where appropriate to hit the key junctions on time and ran unchecked straight into Liverpool Street bang on time.

 

[Bald Rick]

If you want a fast run then the best train to get is a xx30 first stop Warrington. It should get a clear run if the xx23 doesn't hang around for too long at Watford on it's booked stop. An hours clear running should get you past Tamworth (110m)and be somewhere around Lichfield (116m). Liverpools get held up at Rugby more often then not because of the New St train stopping at Rugby. Xx00 or xx40 to Manchester also get good runs provided the LM units pathed in front keep out of the way. Others can be discounted as they stop enroute.

Agreed re the xx30 - that was my quick run to Rugeley. Last time I did it we were inexplicably delayed at both Rugby and Lichfield by red signals that cleared when we were just on the single yellow, with no conflicting traffic in the way. Preceding and following trains did not have the same issue. Shame.

 

[higthomas]

On Tuesday 18th October was on the 18.47 Liverpool Lime Street to Euston which caught at Crewe, this train has a 63 minute booking, net time 61 minutes from Stafford to Watford Junction, which is 116.14 miles and 114 mph average speed if done in net time, we were 4 late from Stafford which gave the driver reason for spirited running, we covered it in 60-61 minutes, didn't take any timings as dark and not expecting anything much, realtime trains shows it taking hour, but it doesn't show exact seconds.

It is an impressive example of what can be achieved with Pendolino's and good driving, when the line is clear of tsr's, none of the speeds were illegal as the speed is governed by Tass, which put brakes on if speed exceeds 127-128 mph, and the ride was smooth as usual, it was good driving, getting maximum out of the traction.

Is this sort of run on this train hard to achieve? is this fastest timed domestic train in the UK? do any of our Pendolino drivers on this forum cover this run and if they do is it hard to do it in net time?

So, according to the hard to find but fascinating Rail Performance society list of 100mph+ runs, this is in fact the highest average timetable speed of any train in the UK off of HS1. Is is also only just beaten by HS1, with trains (and signalling!) capable of 140mph.

Also, it's interesting to note the lack of fast runs into rather than away from London!

 

[driver_m]

So, according to the hard to find but fascinating Rail Performance society list of 100mph+ runs, this is in fact the highest average timetable speed of any train in the UK off of HS1. Is is also only just beaten by HS1, with trains (and signalling!) capable of 140mph.

Also, it's interesting to note the lack of fast runs into rather than away from London!

0700s from both Manchester & Liverpool. Manchester can do it easily under 2hrs. Liverpool could too as it is flighted right behind Manchester. Again as long as LM pathed in front is out of way which sadly tends not to be the case.

 

[All Line Rover]

Also, it's interesting to note the lack of fast runs into rather than away from London!

VTWC trains to Euston that are not delayed en route tend to arrive in Euston a few minutes early, subject to a platform being available.

 

[higthomas]

0700s from both Manchester & Liverpool. Manchester can do it easily under 2hrs. Liverpool could too as it is flighted right behind Manchester. Again as long as LM pathed in front is out of way which sadly tends not to be the case.

Yes, but the timetabled 1 hour 52 minutes from Stockport to Euston gives an average speed of only 95.2mph, which isn't that fast compared to all the other runs. It has to get in 5 minutes early to break the 100mph average, which isn't that impressive compared to the other runs on that list.
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VTWC trains to Euston that are not delayed en route tend to arrive in Euston a few minutes early, subject to a platform being available.

And yes, that was part of my interest, be it generous pathing or padding or pessimism that leads to such schedules.

 

[cambsy]

Queensville curve stated he did Warrington-Euston in 86 mins which is impossible, the fastest net times are north bound, which are Euston-Crewe 84 and a half minutes and Euston-Warrington 98 mins, which both need totally clear runs, The reason no faster s possible is the Tass system which kicks in brakes above 127-128 mph, even the Heavens Angels Glasgow-Euston non stop special only achieved 127-128 mph, it achieved record by braking and accelerating harder than normal, it had extra managers in cab with driver and even with this was given no speed derogations except through Rugby remodelling at 75 mph instead of the 40 mph normally required, only time faster speeds have been achieved on a Pendolino was during testing, presumably before Tass was activated, despite Tass the Pendolino really can rocket along and achieve cracking average speeds.

 

[driver_m]

Yes, but the timetabled 1 hour 52 minutes from Stockport to Euston gives an average speed of only 95.2mph, which isn't that fast compared to all the other runs. It has to get in 5 minutes early to break the 100mph average, which isn't that impressive compared to the other runs on that list.
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And yes, that was part of my interest, be it generous pathing or padding or pessimism that leads to such schedules.

It can do the lot in that time. (Pic-Euston)

 

[The Planner]

Liverpools get held up at Rugby more often then not because of the New St train stopping at Rugby.

The good old approach control into 1 at Rugby, flashing yellows are for the half station block route via Hilmorton. We can't timetable it out either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And yes, that was part of my interest, be it generous pathing or padding or pessimism that leads to such schedules.

Wouldn't say anything is generous in terms of pathing and without the pessimism of box time the whole thing would start cracking as soon as a TSR is on.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You'd expect VT PPM to have gone up with Norton Bridge complete (also on XC), with more opportunities for faster overall runs.
It must be the first time for a long while that there have been no major engineering works in progress on the WCML.

 

[notadriver]

So, according to the hard to find but fascinating Rail Performance society list of 100mph+ runs, this is in fact the highest average timetable speed of any train in the UK off of HS1. Is is also only just beaten by HS1, with trains (and signalling!) capable of 140mph.

Also, it's interesting to note the lack of fast runs into rather than away from London!

The RPS fastest runs listing is slightly erroneous when it comes to some HS1 runs. Xx.43 departures from Ashford are timed to arrive at xx.01 leaving at Xx.02 from Ebbsfleet. That's just 18 minutes for the 33 miles rather than the 19 minutes shown on the website. That's an average of 110 mph over this relatively short distance. Looking at the table the best conventional trains between Rugby and Milton Keynes average 103 mph over a similar distance.

 

[driver_m]

The RPS fastest runs listing is slightly erroneous when it comes to some HS1 runs. Xx.43 departures from Ashford are timed to arrive at xx.01 leaving at Xx.02 from Ebbsfleet. That's just 18 minutes for the 33 miles rather than the 19 minutes shown on the website. That's an average of 110 mph over this relatively short distance. Looking at the table the best conventional trains between Rugby and Milton Keynes average 103 mph over a similar distance.

Is more like 120mph in reality. Only two places between the two where you need to slow down. 120 at Weedon and 110 at Kilsby Tunnel. It's about 16-17 minutes between the two which are 32 miles apart.

 

[jfollows]

Xx00 or xx40 to Manchester also get good runs provided the LM units pathed in front keep out of the way.

xx40 invariably held up at Stafford by the previous hour's xx43 via Birmingham. But otherwise gets a good run, I agree. 15:40 on Wednesday typical - we were held up at Shugborough by a freight train but it didn't matter because we were then held up at Stafford station (red on down fast clearing just before we had to stop) and even had the freight train overtake us before Norton Bridge until the preceding train got away. The xx43's timetable is completely unrealistic because it can leave Wolverhampton on time and be late at Stafford.

Oh yes, the xx40 used to be delayed at Colwich by the LM Crewe service before the 110mph retiming, now it's not an issue.

Rugeley in 63 minutes impressive; I was initially impressed by Atherstone in 60 which is now pretty mundane.

 

[notadriver]

Is more like 120mph in reality. Only two places between the two where you need to slow down. 120 at Weedon and 110 at Kilsby Tunnel. It's about 16-17 minutes between the two which are 32 miles apart.

These are to start to stop timings - I think you are quoting a flying average without stopping


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[driver_m]

These are to start to stop timings - I think you are quoting a flying average without stopping


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I am! You'd have to look at our one off trains that stop at both. They are usually timed to fit around the regular stuff and probably have more slack timing built into them. 18 minutes at best probably.

 

[The Planner]

. The xx43's timetable is completely unrealistic because it can leave Wolverhampton on time and be late at Stafford.

Tight SRTs or something else?

 

[jfollows]

Tight SRTs or something else?

From observation and experience, the xx40 is probably late arriving in Wilmslow 19 times out of 20, and this xx43 late running seems the predominant cause. I think that the running times allowed for a clear path from Wolverhampton through Stafford, crossing to the Down Fast typically at the former Stafford Number 5 crossover, are simply unrealistic and therefore too short. This is not something recent, such as caused by a significant but temporary speed restriction. The delay is normally up to 5 minutes, usually mainly recovered before its final destination, but from my perspective this train is "almost always late".

Probably a little off-topic but nonetheless interesting. For anyone wanting to time a good start-stop Euston-Crewe run, this service almost certainly won't be a good candidate.

 

[The Planner]

Sounds like its too tight across Doxey to me. We will rue the day of not sorting that as part of Stafford and Norton Bridge.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Rugeley in 63 minutes impressive; I was initially impressed by Atherstone in 60 which is now pretty mundane.

I'm still waiting to cross the River Tame bridge (112m32c) within the hour from Euston (usually on the xx40).
I'm sure it happens, as usually you get beyond Tamworth.
Time was when you were lucky to clear Rugby in the same time.

 

[notadriver]

Off topic but do other countries invest in upgrading speeds of their regular main line services as much as Britain seems to ?



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