Impressive Pendolino run

[The Planner]

Crewe has to have something done even if HS2 gets canned. All of those suggestions don't help south of Rugby, 140 arguably makes it a bit worse. Stafford bypass removes any need to grade seperate Colwich anyway.

 

[Taunton]

My train on Sunday evening managed Watford to Coventry (76 miles, from a standing start having called at Watford) in 40 minutes. I make that an average speed of 114mph!

In 1967 (50 years ago) at the start of electrification there was some competition for Euston to Coventry times, 93 miles I believe, which some were managing just under the hour. Notional 100mph limit but up to 110mph was "tolerated". Vacuum braked stock.

Another little competition at the time was to hit 100mph by Willesden Junction going down.

 

[The Planner]

Clean run with no TSRs today that can be timetabled in 51.

 

[Bald Rick]

In 1967 (50 years ago) at the start of electrification there was some competition for Euston to Coventry times, 93 miles I believe, which some were managing just under the hour. Notional 100mph limit but up to 110mph was "tolerated". Vacuum braked stock.

Another little competition at the time was to hit 100mph by Willesden Junction going down.

In the late 90s I routinely did Eus-Cov non stop in 59 mins on the famed 2115 (86+MkIIs)
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Just think what it could have been like had 140mph operation (with in-cab signalling) on the WCML happened along with 4 tracking all the way from Rugby to Stafford, a Stafford bypass, grade separation for Colwich (or complete new re-alignment), rebuilt Crewe to allow 125mph through the station area. Maybe we wouldn't need HS2? Massively cheaper too. Even with 125mph operation, removal of the Stafford, Crewe and Colwich constraints must have a significant impact?

4 tracking all the way Rugby to Stafford was never proposed.

A rebuilt Crewe at 125 saves about half a minute max.

The proposed linespeed profile for 140mph from Wembley to Crewe included many restrictions sub 140 to deal with the curves and some tunnels - Bushey, Watford, Berko, Linslade, Wolverton, Weedon, Kilsby, Rugby, Atherstone to name a few. From memory 140 saved about 5 mins Euston to Crewe non stop.

The main constraint is fast line capacity South of Rugby, and sortin Colwich / Stafford etc doesn't help that.

 

[Taunton]

In the late 90s I routinely did Eus-Cov non stop in 59 mins on the famed 2115 (86+MkIIs).

I believe there were a number of line improvements on the WCML from 1967 over the years that would have helped. Wolverton was straightened out past the works, and also approaching one of the tunnels, which lessened speed restrictions. Not nearly as many as were made on the ECML though, despite the curving West Coast looking more promising for this.

The main constraint is fast line capacity South of Rugby

Does make you wonder how London Midland have been allowed to start running 110mph emus on the Fast, previously just the province of expresses.

 

[The Planner]

Because they fit, just.

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe there were a number of line improvements on the WCML from 1967 over the years that would have helped. Wolverton was straightened out past the works, and also approaching one of the tunnels, which lessened speed restrictions. Not nearly as many as were made on the ECML though, despite the curving West Coast looking more promising for this.

Does make you wonder how London Midland have been allowed to start running 110mph emus on the Fast, previously just the province of expresses.

Weedon was certainly smoothed out and recanted by removing the crossover.

Re LM - well that's the thrusting, dynamic private sector railway for you. Would never have been allowed in BR days. All those people on £5 advances take note!

 

[rebmcr]

Just think what it could have been like had 140mph operation (with in-cab signalling) on the WCML happened along with 4 tracking all the way from Rugby to Stafford, a Stafford bypass, grade separation for Colwich (or complete new re-alignment), rebuilt Crewe to allow 125mph through the station area. Maybe we wouldn't need HS2? Massively cheaper too. Even with 125mph operation, removal of the Stafford, Crewe and Colwich constraints must have a significant impact?

HS2 has in fact been shown to be cheaper than the WCML remodelling that you suggest.

 

[jayiscupid]

Off topic but do other countries invest in upgrading speeds of their regular main line services as much as Britain seems to ?

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Germany is probably the best example. They started building their highspeed lines in the 80's known as NBS (Neubaustrecke) which means new line. The first opened in stages from Hannover to Wurzburg. These were built a with lot of tunneling and a desire to keep them as flat as possible for use by freight and passenger.
Where it wasn't viable for a new line they upgraded their old lines (ABS / Ausbaustrecke) for higher speeds.
NBS were built for 250km/h in normal service but drivers were allowed to reach 280km/h if running late. ABS were upgraded to 200km/h or some for 250km/h.
The use of freight on the high speed lines never materialised due to track charges so when they built the new Koln-Frankfurt NBS it was built with 4% gradients and DB only permitted high speed EMU's (ICE3) to use it. (There's also a rumour it was to prevent SNCF from sending their Thalys sets to Frankfurt).

 

[Groningen]

(There's also a rumour it was to prevent SNCF from sending their Thalys sets to Frankfurt).

I do not think that travelers from Paris to Frankfurt want to make a detour via Brussel and Koeln.

 

[boxy321]

The London Midland 172 from Moor Street to Dorridge must have done an impressive run this morning. Being late, it departed, having been announced 1 minute earlier that it would not be stopping anywhere apart from the turnaround at Dorridge until it got back to Moor Street going the opposite way to Worcester.

I know it's important to make up time, but picking up and letting off passengers is also an important part of running a railway, rather than driving an empty train up and down.

The guard got an earful while he was telling the Solihull etc. passengers who didn't hear the announcement to get off and was eager to shift his crate to allow the Chiltern train behind to come through.

 

[rebmcr]

I know it's important to make up time, but picking up and letting off passengers is also an important part of running a railway, rather than driving an empty train up and down.

The actions they took meant that the unit's subsequent journeys throughout the day did not inconvenience the other trainloads of passengers, nor any of the other knockon delays that could have been caused across the network going forward.

 

[jayiscupid]

I do not think that travelers from Paris to Frankfurt want to make a detour via Brussel and Koeln.

Of course not but it would have allowed SNCF/Thalys to serve the lucrative Brussels/Koln to Frankfurt business market.