If enthusiasts ran the railways...

[Aictos]

I rather have the current FGW livery but without the dynamic lines but saying that, the liveries at sectorisation were good enough at the time and simplifies brand awareness ie go to York and see InterCity and Regional Railways rather then Northern, Grand Central, Cross Country, East Coast, FTPE.

The East Coast, West Coast, Midland Mainline, Great Western and Cross Country would all be run with InterCity branding thus allowing coaching stock to be moved around where needed, there would be no seperate sub branding involved as it would be promoted as InterCity with pre Operation Princess routes brought back.

The Regional Railways route would run along the same lines but like NSE did, include local murals promoting the route etc...

I would like to see sleepers return to Kings Cross though which would be the rediverted Lowland Sleeper for Glasgow and Edinburgh with the Highland sleeper using Euston.

By doing this, it makes it even easier for travellers to use St Pancras if they wish to use it.

 

[j0hn0]

For every infrastructure project, I would include clearing every bridge for bern gauge.
I would not allow diesels to run under the wires - EMU's and then loco hauled to final destinations.
I would introduce loco hauled rakes on long routes currently being operated by 158s (Bham - Aberystwyth, Marylebone - Snow Hill, Bham - Norwich etc etc)
Like Rail Britain, I would consolidate all intercity routes into one brand franchise, operated seperately by TOC's. (Standard IC livery with an "operated by" sticker near the doors)
I would change all regional services to be standardised livery in the same way as Intercity.
I would change all stopping trains to be standardised also.

So basically it would be....

I-Trax
R-Trax
S-Trax

All branded the same across the country but with grade and platform seperations where possible.

I would also introduce a AirTrain franchise. To basically run trains inbetween airports throughout the country. Not to have heathrow and gatwick express as seperate franchises. You could link Manchester, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham and Luton with a little bit of infrastructure work. The rolling stock could have a guards van (remember them?) whereby people can check in their luggage as they arrive at the station. A porter then loads it all onto the train and removes it at the destination.

An idea for all long distance trains methinks.

 

[37401]

if you have a passion for the railways you would do what is best for them, sure you may want claggy class 37s everywhere, but think, do the average pax really want to be smoked out in a boiling hot coach with no air conditioning in the middle of summer?

Who needs air-con when you have all of those windows to open for air

 

[Royston Vasey]

For every infrastructure project, I would include clearing every bridge for bern gauge.
I would not allow diesels to run under the wires - EMU's and then loco hauled to final destinations.
I would introduce loco hauled rakes on long routes currently being operated by 158s (Bham - Aberystwyth, Marylebone - Snow Hill, Bham - Norwich etc etc)
Like Rail Britain, I would consolidate all intercity routes into one brand franchise, operated seperately by TOC's. (Standard IC livery with an "operated by" sticker near the doors)
I would change all regional services to be standardised livery in the same way as Intercity.
I would change all stopping trains to be standardised also.
...
I would also introduce a AirTrain franchise. To basically run trains inbetween airports throughout the country. Not to have heathrow and gatwick express as seperate franchises. You could link Manchester, Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham and Luton with a little bit of infrastructure work. The rolling stock could have a guards van (remember them?) whereby people can check in their luggage as they arrive at the station. A porter then loads it all onto the train and removes it at the destination.

An idea for all long distance trains methinks.

God only knows how much that will all cost. Clear every single bridge for stock we haven't even got yet?? Madness!!

It makes no sense detraining every passenger just because of the perceived waste of running a diesel under the wires. It is a fallacy that modern, emission-controlled diesel units are vastly less carbon efficient or dirtier than electric, particularly when that electricity is produced from coal without CCS., as most of our electricity is. Furthermore diesel units have the flexibility to run on future liquid fuels (biofuels from waste for example) which may even be carbon neutral. What is dirty about that? Surely makes better financial sense than wiring every mile of every line in Britain.

And think about it, what is the sense in linking airports? Who flies into Manchester and has a connecting flight at Gatwick? Even if they have, getting a plane for that hop is fast and means never having to see or carry their luggage, or checking in, or going through security over and over again throughout that journey, no matter how many stopovers in the journey. And do you think the airports will support that, given that the service would compete (albeit not very well) with internal flights? There are far more pressing route needs than that.

 

[j0hn0]

God only knows how much that will all cost. Clear every single bridge for stock we haven't even got yet?? Madness!!

It makes no sense detraining every passenger just because of the perceived waste of running a diesel under the wires. It is a fallacy that modern, emission-controlled diesel units are vastly less carbon efficient or dirtier than electric, particularly when that electricity is produced from coal without CCS., as most of our electricity is. Furthermore diesel units have the flexibility to run on future liquid fuels (biofuels from waste for example) which may even be carbon neutral. What is dirty about that? Surely makes better financial sense than wiring every mile of every line in Britain.

And think about it, what is the sense in linking airports? Who flies into Manchester and has a connecting flight at Gatwick? Even if they have, getting a plane for that hop is fast and means never having to see or carry their luggage, or checking in, or going through security over and over again throughout that journey, no matter how many stopovers in the journey. And do you think the airports will support that, given that the service would compete (albeit not very well) with internal flights? There are far more pressing route needs than that.

a) I didn't say clear every bridge, I said for each major infrastructure project increase the loading gauge of the bridges, it may have come out wrong.

b) You are saying that running diesels under the wires all the way on the main electrified lines is efficient? I'm talking about services to Aberdeen, Inverness, Holyhead, Sunderland, Hull, Bradford and the Bham - Manchester. The massive distance they travel under the wires for relatively short diesel only destinations is criminally inefficient and I can't quite understand why you would see it any other way. At least you can generate electricity to the wires from renewable sources, that is far more preferrable than big heavy, cumbersome, maintenance heavy diesels. Question for anyone reading, which is the more reliable, the DMU or the Diesel Loco?

c) To suggest that our old diesels can be converted to biofuel is just wrong I think. The very concept of biofuel is flawed because you have to stop growing food, waste gases like methane have potential, but why isn't anyone doing it? Could it be the fact that our old diesels were made to run on a certain type of fuel? And that converting them would probably cost as much as electrifying the branches which they serve?

d) It's not the connecting flights as a reason to connect airports. The reason is to link them to all the places in between. So whichever airport you need to get to, you would have a direct link from most major towns without having to change 3 times. It would serve to encourage less car use, y'know, to reduce carbon footprint?

e) the baggage thing can be added to any long distance train, do you really enjoy lugging your suitcase on a train and then sitting half a carriage away? Get to the station, drop it off, get a ticket, pick it up at the destination with your ticket.


oh and any comments on the other suggestions? did you like any of those?

 

[FlyingScot]

pacers would not exist

evil!!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here's my rules.............

The whole east coast mainline would be a heritage line.
Everything will be loco hauled.
All class 90s will be repainted into railfreight grey.
The whole west coast mainline will be hauled be class 90s.
37401 will be arrested for crimes to pacers.

 

[Bittern]

Everything would be loco hauled

Sorry, but I wouldn't get rid of my precious 318s or Pendolinos for a couple of locos.

I agree with the "nothing would be scrapped", because there's an oppertunity there for Railtours operated by the National network. This generates in more money allowing the enthusiasts to put said money back into the railway and make it better.

I'd personally re-open a few lines. Hamilton railway station (North British Railway) would be re-opened, along with Peakcock Cross, Burnbank and Bothwell stations to connect once again with the line at Shettleston and to Airdrie/Edinburgh. I guess this is down to my fascination with this particular line. The line would not be electrified.

 

[FlyingScot]

Sorry, but I wouldn't get rid of my precious 318s or Pendolinos for a couple of locos.QUOTE]

Cmon! Be cool! We all gotta make sacrifices once in a while!

 

[Bittern]

Cmon! Be cool! We all gotta make sacrifices once in a while!

No. The 318s and the Pendos would stay. If it means anything though, I'd be the personal owner of them all and all the 318s would be named.

 

[FlyingScot]

No. The 318s and the Pendos would stay. If it means anything though, I'd be the personal owner of them all and all the 318s would be named.

I'm my rules the west coast main line would be run by not only 90s but javelins. And then I could buy one of the pendos in case of a traction crisis. I'd name it Flyingscot.

 

[Bittern]

I'm my rules the west coast main line would be run by not only 90s but javelins. No engines will be scrapped but the pendos would be put in a shed until the next traction crisis. Same fate as with the 318s.

I'd hide all your locos.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

And the above series of posts is why enthusiast shouldn't run the railways!

(There are some good ones though - the MD of EMT for instance)

 

[37401]

The whole east coast mainline would be a heritage line.
Everything will be loco hauled.
All class 90s will be repainted into railfreight grey.
The whole west coast mainline will be hauled be class 90s.
37401 will be arrested for crimes to pacers.

lol, Cranks running BTP, I like the idea of 90s on the WCML, but why leave 86s and 87s rottting away get them out :P
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And the above series of posts is why enthusiast shouldn't run the railways!

(There are some good ones though - the MD of EMT for instance)

Isnt Chris Gibb MD of Virgin a crank too

 

[90019]

Who needs air-con when you have all of those windows to open for air

People on the trains in winter

 

[37401]

roll out ETHEL for the cold days

 

[Daimler]

No. The 318s and the Pendos would stay. If it means anything though, I'd be the personal owner of them all and all the 318s would be named.

You're welcome to them!

 

[Moog_1984]

Some good points there. I mentioned in an earlier thread about three TOC Managing Directors. You don't see any of those three TOC's playing at trains and kicking out pairs of 37s or 55022 on a daily basis - they run their companies in professional manner.

Also agree with you on train horns. Until a year or two, I had never heard of anyone getting excited over them. Now, the hobby is full of the youtube generation who seem excited by the "nine-tone my lorrdddzzz the 158 blew its horn at me and I act like I am still at primary school" brigade.

erm, I did here that one former 40 basher and TOC top brass suggested pairs of 37s or 31s in the middle of a certain ill fated "fast" multiple unit.

In 1980 there was still a big diversity of locos some of dubious reliability: needed lots of spares , lots of training, lots of fixing. Standardise. Multiplise. Hmm, sensible. But hold on we need to go faster and carry more wheelchairs...stand aside 156 and 158....and so on until today what do we have?

A pretty non standard bunch of trains with dubious reliability BUT when one fails you can't find some (large!) spare loco to haul it. Not to mention todays situation with the airlines and actually having to carry A LOT of passengers.

Virgin have the figures on the cost effectiveness and reliability of using locos versus DMUs from the T-birds and the Rimmey valley etc, and Blotrails' 37/4 days could probably be adjusted for inflation.

So to summarise in a kind of completely impartial, management consultant talk......

RK 215 v16s on straight through exhausts

WOOF!

 

[LE Greys]

Many more locos/units would be named. Cast brass nameplates with 'Egyptian' lettering would be applied in the factory and removed on the scrap line (or never). Each class would have a distinctive theme (91s - birds, 365s - Cambridge colleges, etc) with no silly names or breaks in the theme.

Titled trains would carry headboards

Liveries would be consistent, smart and not pink or purple. White would only be used for small areas or stripes.

"South West Trains" or "Arriva Trains Wales" would become "the South Western Railway" or "Arriva Welsh Railways".

All menus would be "de-yuppified", with the old Scotrail bacon buttie reintroduced nationwide. Drinks would be served in cups with the company name on them. Tea would be 50p a cup (although the cups would be normal household mug size).

Pendolinos would have restaurant cars.

Voyagers would have buffet cars (plus two extra passenger vehicles).

Half of all passenger vehicles would be refurbished with compartments.

At least if this enthusiast ran the railways.

 

[Moog_1984]

Half of all passenger vehicles would be refurbished with compartments.

I'm sure I've got some "declassified" stickers in a box somewhere.....wait for "gripper" change and then downgrade a first class compo'! Them was the days.......

 

[FlyingScot]

lol, Cranks running BTP, I like the idea of 90s on the WCML, but why leave 86s and 87s rottting away get them out :P

Ok, I'll also get out the 86s and 87s but I still like 90s better.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd hide all your locos.

I'd hack into Bill Gate's bank account and use his money to buy the world's best metal detector and find them again.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'd hack into Bill Gate's bank account and use his money to buy the world's best metal detector and find them again.

And you intend to do that how?

 

[FlyingScot]

And you intend to do that how?

It was a joke. Stop being so serious.

 

[37401]

Ok, I'll also get out the 86s and 87s but I still like 90s better.[\quote]

Not had or seen many 86s or 87s then

 

[FlyingScot]

Ok, I'll also get out the 86s and 87s but I still like 90s better.[\quote]

Not had or seen many 86s or 87s then

I've seen plenty actually. Stop underestimating me, I'm a smart kid, honest. And other people have different opinions too, not everyone prefers 86s and 7s over 90s.

 

[sprinterguy]

Well, when it comes to 87s, I love 'em: Life would be boring if everyone had the same point of view!

From my point of view, I'd have class 87s running WCML Anglo-scottish services and the main London-Manchester trains, and class 86s on the shorter distance runs, such as London-Birmingham.

Then all 50 class 90s would be used on Freightliner trains instead of pairs of 86/6s, and would be in good old Railfreight Distribution livery, and I'd have a few class 81s and 85s painted up like that (like the ACLG have done) for that traffic as well.

I'd use more loco hauled with air conditioned mark 2s on long distance routes where the current units are really unsuitable: So I'd have class 50s on Waterloo to Exeter and on the Berks and Hants down to Penzance, some Westerns on the GWML, and plenty of class 40s along the North Wales Coast and on the Chiltern main line.

This would free up the Sprinter units so that all class 156 and 158 operated services could be "doubled up" to run in four car formation for extra capacity. I'd personally keep a few Pacers for nostalgic reasons, but maybe redude their numbers to 50 142s, 15 143s and 20 144s, and then ensure that they weren't operating any journeys over half an hour long or that could be deemed to be a commuter service. So definitely NOT the three hour slog from Middlesborough to Carlisle, and not Merseyrail!

I'd have the original order for 330 HST power cars restarted, all with good old Valentas

Which means that I could then push all the Voyagers and Super Voyagers off the end of Brighton pier, and have a PROPER Crosscountry HST service. I'd keep the Meridians, and put them on some "core route" XC workings, which could be Cardiff to Nottingham, York to Swansea and birmingham to Stansted, coz they do at least have the right number of carriages.

A number of branchlines could be converted to a community rail/heritage scheme, where a service level is laid down by the powers that be to provide a regular daily service to a suitable level, and not just weekend working like a lot of preserved lines do, and first generation DMUs could operate alongside class 31s and 37s and steam locos hauling mark 1 and 2 carriages with special dispensation to work on these routes. The sort of lines I'm thinking of are the likes of Middlesborough to Whitby, and the Cornish branches.

I would reopen the Waverley route throughout, and also reopen branches that run into areas with high levels of tourism in order to reduce cars on the road: So Penrith to Keswick, Matlock to Bakewell, etc, which could benefit from the "heritage branch" status.

I too would reintroduce sectorisation, using standard liveries for the likes of Intercity and Regional Railways with some sort of small vinyl based route branding near the doors that could easily be changed if carriages are moved elsewhere.

Oh, and I'd have production APTs doing 155mph on the East Coast

 

[starrymarkb]

50's suitable for Waterloo to Exeter? Sorry but they are not at all suited to that route - 50s don't like stop start and if one breaks down in the single track sections then you have a rather large problem... 159s may be boring but they do the job very well.

Now maybe I'm going out on a limb but this is my view

*Ensure all stock is well maintained
*Ensure all stock is well presented
*Replace stock when necessary
*Ensure new stock is well specified to its role
*Ensure trains are quiet and pollute less
*Introduce train numbers like on the continent with categories like Metro, Regional, InterRegional, InterCity and regular stopping patterns
*a Taktfahrplan

That'll do for now...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Finally a sensible suggestion starrymarkb! A statement which proves that some enthusiasts would be capable of running the railway. Not like "I'll hide your locomotives".

 

[37401]

I've seen plenty actually. Stop underestimating me, I'm a smart kid, honest. And other people have different opinions too, not everyone prefers 86s and 7s over 90s.

I wasn't just given your age I didn't think you would remember the 87s.... smartness has nothing to do with traveling behind and seeing 86s and 87s

Your opinion yes but just why one would put a 90 over the proper AC locos ill never understand, nowt beats the noise of an 86 or 87

 

[87015]

I wasn't just given your age I didn't think you would remember the 87s.... smartness has nothing to do with traveling behind and seeing 86s and 87s

Your opinion yes but just why one would put a 90 over the proper AC locos ill never understand, nowt beats the noise of an 86 or 87

Even I think you should stop digging now to be honest....

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Simple routing for all tickets.

Routing shown on tickets.

Simple price structure of tickets (Advance, Off Peak, Peak)

8-10 large stations outside of London, all with services to the capital every 20 minutes. Smaller towns would have connecting services to the larger stations.
(eg: no services from Warrington to London, meaning those trains can be used on the Liverpool route. Warrington passengers have the choice of Manchester or Liverpool)

More overnight trains

Penalty fares nationwide

Continual assessment of staff performance with training if required