Idea only: 'Railpriority' at London Euston

[6Gman]

ELIGABILITY
All passengers with the following status will be eligable:

-(PROPOSED FUTURE, replacing Nectar) Anyone with a Tier2 or Tier3 frequent travel card (another idea for Virgin Trains services)
-(CURRENTLY) Any top tier members of Delta/Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program


How will a frequent traveller program work? - Similar to an airline version, after a certain ammount of legs with a partner company, your status will rise. You will earn miles to redeem for an upgrade, money for the onboard shop, or for a journey on a partner operator.

What is the purpose of this "loyalty scheme" ?

 

[Llanigraham]

It would only apply to Virgin Trains, therefore it would be equivalent to a flight between LHR and EDI on many occasions... There are no occasions where Virgin trains services are used as a frequent stopping service, therefore earning miles and XP would require a 'proper' journey, rather than a 10 minute hop on, hop off. The only place I could think of this happening is between Birmingham INTL and New Street.

Then I suggest that you haven't caught a Virgin service in the West Mids!
There are plenty of people who use their service just like this north and south out of New St.

And why should I be "pushed aside" when I purchase a ticket from Mid Wales to Euston from ATW instead of from Virgin? Aren't I just as important as a passenger coming home form Euston?

 

[DenmarkRail]

What happens when passengers arriving need to use the ramp? Are they expected to fight their way through the waiting passengers?

This is a good point, and I'll look at some of the ramp plans I've designed, to see if an exit path could be added.

Do remember that Kaizen is continuous improvement, not continuous change. Similarly looking in the lean toolbox, and as other people have noted, you need to do a root cause analysis. Why is it that the Euston Scrum exists (because trains are announced late) - Why are trains announced late (because ...) and so on.

Why does the scrum exist -> Trains are announced late -> Why are they announced late -> Too much time cleaning / restocking -> Why is too much time spent cleaning and restocking -> Because we're not being efficient -> How could cleaning and catering efficiency be improved?
-Condense the catering into much smaller trolleys (similar to aircrafts) so it can be quickly loaded.
-Have a cleaner on the train at all times, so the train can be cleaned throughout its journey.
-Reduce the catering offering to a set range of pre made sandwich boxes in Standard (See KLM catering in SH economy for my reference)
-Store the none perishable niche products (headphones etc) in bulk onboard, rather than at EUS.

What is the purpose of this "loyalty scheme" ?

-Earn status for access to the first class lounges. With tier2 you will be able to enter for a fee, and with tier3 you will be able to enter for free (with a ticket on a VT service)
-Access to RAILPRIORITY for Tier3 passengers
-Use miles to get a free journey, or upgrade to first class
-Use miles to purchase items from the onboard shop

 

[Bletchleyite]

-Condense the catering into much smaller trolleys (similar to aircrafts) so it can be quickly loaded.

It is.

-Have a cleaner on the train at all times, so the train can be cleaned throughout its journey.

There is.

-Reduce the catering offering to a set range of pre made sandwich boxes in Standard (See KLM catering in SH economy for my reference)

Wha? There is only a very small range of perishable stuff in the "shop" - the rest of it remains on board.

Store the none perishable niche products (headphones etc) in bulk onboard, rather than at EUS.

They are.

Have you ever travelled on VTWC?

 

[DenmarkRail]

It is.



There is.



Wha? There is only a very small range of perishable stuff in the "shop" - the rest of it remains on board.



They are.

Have you ever travelled on VTWC?

If they do all of that, and still take over half an hour to board all of that, then there is a real problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they do all of that, and still take over half an hour to board all of that, then there is a real problem.

Or maybe there isn't.

 

[6Gman]

-Earn status for access to the first class lounges. With tier2 you will be able to enter for a fee, and with tier3 you will be able to enter for free (with a ticket on a VT service)
-Access to RAILPRIORITY for Tier3 passengers
-Use miles to get a free journey, or upgrade to first class
-Use miles to purchase items from the onboard shop

But what's in it for the TOC? They are handing out free journeys, upgrades, items from the shop ... in return for what?

 

[DenmarkRail]

But what's in it for the TOC? They are handing out free journeys, upgrades, items from the shop ... in return for what?

Loyalty... different amounts of miles will be awarded based on the amount spent, and the status of the passenger. If there is an incentive for someone to use the train over the plane, then they will take it.

 

[6Gman]

Why does the scrum exist -> Trains are announced late -> Why are they announced late -> Too much time cleaning / restocking ->

Is that actually the reason though?

It seems to me that all that's needed is for the Platform to be announced earlier and that a queue be allowed to form on the ramp down to the platform. Which - in effect - is what happens at Lime Street.

One queue. Why add extra complexity and opportunity for annoyance - by having two queues?

One further point. I worked on all manner of train services in my days on the railway. Royal trains, inspection specials, charters, even the Stourbridge Town shuttle. Passengers are passengers. They all deserve equal respect. If they've bought a First Class ticket they can have a Fist Class seat and any extras for which they've paid. But - in my book - they take their turn to get on the train same as everyone else.

 

[6Gman]

Loyalty... different amounts of miles will be awarded based on the amount spent, and the status of the passenger. If there is an incentive for someone to use the train over the plane, then they will take it.

You seem awfully obsessed with some passengers having special "status" over others. Why?

Other than Glasgow are VTWC really competing with air travel?

 

[Ianno87]

You seem awfully obsessed with some passengers having special "status" over others. Why?

Other than Glasgow are VTWC really competing with air travel?

Long distance rail travel from London is already, with the ecveption of Scotland, largely a de-facto captive market. Loyalty schemes are not going to generate even remotely significant repeat business (that would not have happened anyway) to justify their administration costs.

In any case, long distance demand soon enough transfers onto HS2, for which the rebuilt site of Euston station should present a much less of a scrummy boarding 'experience' (e.g. 2+ entrances per platform)

 

[The Ham]

An 11 coach 390 is circa 255m, based on standard DfT walk distances that's circa 3 minutes to walk the length of the train, with a further 3 to get off the ranks, assuming that it's fairly busy it's going to take another 4 minute for people to gather to their stuff and get off the train.

So far it's taken about 10 minutes for all the passengers to clear the ramps (many will be quicker but there could be some that are slower). That leaves 20 minutes for all the passengers to board, of which something like 10 minutes from the announcement to departure. That's leaves at most an extra 10 minutes in which the platform could be announced.

As such 30 minutes may appear to be a long time but you're not going to be able to shorten it by much or have the announcements much earlier.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I wonder if the somewhat extended servicing times at Euston are in fact due to the electronic seat reservation system. AIUI the TM collects this information on their tablet before joining the train and then plugs the tablet into the TMS to upload the reservations. Having seen what happens when turnrounds are minimised during disruption it is obvious that this upload is not at all quick: indeed sometimes the process is simply omitted and the train runs without any reservations at all. Could it be that doing something to improve this part of the turnround process might produce the desired result of trains being ready for boarding rather sooner than is the present norm? Say by taking responsibility for it away from the TM altogether and have station based staff commence the process as soon as incoming trains arrive rather then waiting for the TM booked to work the departure to reach their on-board office. No need for pointless snobbery based segregation of passengers at Euston (but nowhere else).

 

[randyrippley]

What do people think about the loyalty card idea I mentioned in the first post?

I think its stupid.
You did ask..........

 

[AM9]

You seem awfully obsessed with some passengers having special "status" over others. Why? ...

Let's take a guess, - DenmarkRail might just qualify to be at the front of such a queue. Maybe I'm wrong, (thinks: surely nobody would make such a self-serving suggestion on here).

 

[DenmarkRail]

Let's take a guess, - DenmarkRail might just qualify to be at the front of such a queue. Maybe I'm wrong, (thinks: surely nobody would make such a self-serving suggestion on here).

No, I wouldn't be. Unless I brought a first class ticket, I wouldn't rack up enough points to qualify... That being said, I am Skyteam Elite Plus on airlines, and with that status, I get priority boarding etc, which would be what I would expect if I was getting a long distance train service.

 

[randyrippley]

No, I wouldn't be. Unless I brought a first class ticket, I wouldn't rack up enough points to qualify... That being said, I am Skyteam Elite Plus on airlines, and with that status, I get priority boarding etc, which would be what I would expect if I was getting a long distance train service.

"Skyteam Elite Plus"?
Sounds like an overpriced TV channel
or some kind of escort agency...........

 

[DenmarkRail]

"Skyteam Elite Plus"?
Sounds like an overpriced TV channel
or some kind of escort agency...........

The top tier of frequent flyer on Skyteam, so Delta, AirFrance, AeroMexico, China Southern and 15 or so more airlines.

 

[DPQ]

This is a good point, and I'll look at some of the ramp plans I've designed, to see if an exit path could be added.

Sounds like you would fit in perfectly at Network Rail. Design new passenger flows at a station without catering for the people exiting.

I'm joking btw. Can I see some of your ramp designs. I am genuinely interested.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Sounds like you would fit in perfectly at Network Rail. Design new passenger flows at a station without catering for the people exiting.

I'm joking btw. Can I see some of your ramp designs. I am genuinely interested.

Yeah, I'll post some in the morning. I'm a little busy now

 

[DenmarkRail]

Yeah, I'll post some in the morning. I'm a little busy now

Just grabbed a mini design I did on my iPad. I’m sorry about the bad drawings, the Apple Pencil isn’t as good as Apple make it out to be

 

[6Gman]

No, I wouldn't be. Unless I brought a first class ticket, I wouldn't rack up enough points to qualify... That being said, I am Skyteam Elite Plus on airlines, and with that status, I get priority boarding etc, which would be what I would expect if I was getting a long distance train service.

But if you're getting priority somebody else must be getting an inferior service.

Why should they?

They've paid their fare!

 

[6Gman]

Just grabbed a mini design I did on my iPad. I’m sorry about the bad drawings, the Apple Pencil isn’t as good as Apple make it out to be

Er, aren't 9 & 10 the DC platforms?

So, frequent flyer to ... Kilburn ...

 

[DenmarkRail]

But if you're getting priority somebody else must be getting an inferior service.

Why should they?

They've paid their fare!

I can pay £1,500 for a plane ticket and get a worse service than people paying £700 for a Business class ticket.

Er, aren't 9 & 10 the DC platforms?

So, frequent flyer to ... Kilburn ...

I just picked a random ramp... Can be used on any of them.

HERE IT IS INCLUDING THE EXIT:

 

[AlterEgo]

My general hope, and aim (believe me, I say aim, I mean dream... I have no power) is to half the turn around time at EUS, and I believe this can help achieve that.

But the time taken to board a train isn’t part of the turnaround in the same way it is an aircraft.

The fastest way to board a train is via a scrum, though it is also the least dignified and least safe.

 

[Domh245]

"Boarding Agent desk" makes me a little bit uneasy. @Bletchleyite often moans about the Romance (France/Italy) style of high speed rail operation where it is airline-esque, specific train reservations, etc, vs the Germanic style which isn't too dissimilar to what we have now. I'd be minded to agree - turning rail into some sort of plane stuck to the ground doesn't fill me with confidence, Rail is Rail - sure there are some things that can be learnt from other industries, but I don't feel that this should be something that is copied.

 

[AlterEgo]

Loyalty... different amounts of miles will be awarded based on the amount spent, and the status of the passenger. If there is an incentive for someone to use the train over the plane, then they will take it.

Air is a very minor competitor on VTWC. The competition is principally the private car followed by National Express.

 

[AlterEgo]

Let's take a guess, - DenmarkRail might just qualify to be at the front of such a queue. Maybe I'm wrong, (thinks: surely nobody would make such a self-serving suggestion on here).

The old FlyerTalk principle. Suggest service improvements at the expense of others to increase segmentation and your own sense of self-importance, and then figure out why it’s justified.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if the somewhat extended servicing times at Euston are in fact due to the electronic seat reservation system. AIUI the TM collects this information on their tablet before joining the train and then plugs the tablet into the TMS to upload the reservations. Having seen what happens when turnrounds are minimised during disruption it is obvious that this upload is not at all quick: indeed sometimes the process is simply omitted and the train runs without any reservations at all. Could it be that doing something to improve this part of the turnround process might produce the desired result of trains being ready for boarding rather sooner than is the present norm? Say by taking responsibility for it away from the TM altogether and have station based staff commence the process as soon as incoming trains arrive rather then waiting for the TM booked to work the departure to reach their on-board office. No need for pointless snobbery based segregation of passengers at Euston (but nowhere else).

That could be happened with the doors locked, though, with people making their way down in dribs and drabs and queueing by the doors. The issue seems to be that they want to clean with the doors open. Which I'm sure makes their life easier, but they seem to cope at Manc Picc where platform numbers are not suppressed at all.

 

[6Gman]

I just picked a random ramp... Can be used on any of them.

HERE IT IS INCLUDING THE EXIT:

Except that there are different layouts to different platforms. How wide are the ramps? How wide would each "lane" be?