Idea only: 'Railpriority' at London Euston

[DenmarkRail]

Here is a plan that I have devised to solve the current boarding issues at Euston. Currently only works with Virgin services, but I am sure it could be adapted for LNWR. Here is the idea.

GENERAL IDEA
Each ramp to the platform will be split into 2, one side will be General boarding, the other will be 'RAILPRIORITY'. At the end of each ramp there will be a gate agent, who will check that your eligble for RAILPRIORITY and then scan your ticket. After the gate agent has boarded the RAILPRIORITY people, then they will open general boarding. Platforms will be announced sooner than currently, but boarding times will remain unchanged for general boarding, but sooner for RAILPRIORITY.

ELIGABILITY
All passengers with the following status will be eligable:
-All passengers travelling in First Class
-(CURRENTLY) anybody with a nectarcard account connected to their account
-(PROPOSED FUTURE, replacing Nectar) Anyone with a Tier2 or Tier3 frequent travel card (another idea for Virgin Trains services)
-(CURRENTLY) Any top tier members of Delta/Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program
-Anyone who purchased this feature at booking

Questions
What if 2 trains are using the ramp at the same time? - If 2 trains are scheduled to depart within 5 minuites of eachother, they will board together. If one train is scheduled to depart above 5 minuites between eachother, then the first train will be boarded before the other. If an LNWR service is boarding at the same time as a VT service, the LNWR passengers would board in the general boarding line, while the eligable VT passengers would board using RailPriority

What if a LNWR or London Overground service is using the platforms? Then the RAILPRIORITY lane will be roped off, and the general boarding line would be used (Could work with LNWR eventually)

How will a frequent traveller program work? - Similar to an airline version, after a certain ammount of legs with a partner company, your status will rise. You will earn miles to redeem for an upgrade, money for the onboard shop, or for a journey on a partner operator.

Could any operator use this program? - In theory yes, but that would be down to Virgin Trains to negotiate who they would allie themselves with. I can't see why this wouldn't be able to extend to VTEC and Stagecoach services though.

Could RailPriority work at other stations? - This method is currently optimised due to the ramps acting as a rudimentary boarding area at EUS, but in theory, I can't see why this can't be adapted to work at other terminus stations, potentially as a method to remove the timewasting of barriers. Smaller stations like Stafford, or Grantham may not be eligible.

What benefit would this have for the customer? For first class customers, and eligible customers, with this idea, you will be able to board the train before anyone else, which extends the ground benefits of someone who spends a lot of their time traveling with Virgin. The ability to get on the train sooner, allows the customer to be settled, and for Virgin to expand their pre departure service, such as pre departure drinks. For the standard customer, the rush to the gate will be less prominant, and the boarding process will be quicker due to the formation of more structured way of boarding.

How would staff benefit from this? Staff will be able to operate a smoother process, which is much quicker. The formation of an orderly line will allow staff to properly attend to the needs of a customer, without being rushed or pushed by a crowd attempting to board a train.

How will this be policed? A member of staff will check that the tickets / passes are marked RAILPRIORITY before boarding has begun. This will be checked again once boarding has begun, and the passenger is getting their pass scanned. If their pass is not marked priority, they will be asked to join the back of the general que.

How will a frequent traveller scheme transfer between franchises? I would like to hope it would continue as usual, until a partner operator withdrew. If the main company decided to withdraw, then the bonus program could continue to be used amongst partners.

How would RailPriority be transfered between franchises? This could continue as usual.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA - PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS HERE, OR CONTACT ME DIRECTLY.

 

[diffident]

I think this is a good idea on the whole. The only issue I can see is that it looks to be based on the idea of aircraft boarding - i.e. Passengers called from departure lounge to the gate, and then called by batches of seat numbers, or types of ticket, to board.

The downside to this is that the mantra and mindset of passengers travelling through Euston is not that of passengers travelling through an airport.

Frankly, it really is every person for themselves once the train is called for boarding, and I think it would take an army of staff at the bottom of the ramps to prevent "standard" passengers from ploughing on past the staff and onto the train regardless.

 

[jeremyjh]

Frankly, given the numbers of people involved, if it takes more than a sentence to explain, it's too complicated.

Not that giving it thought is a bad thing. Personally, I'd favour two queues: passengers with seat reservations for this service, and everybody else.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The KISS principle

 

[DenmarkRail]

Giving this more thought, it would possibly be better if it was integrated into the 'new' HS2 Euston from the start.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely terrible idea. Just put the platforms on the displays earlier and let people queue by the doors.

If you think it'd work with LNR you're very much mistaken and you don't understand their boarding processes.

 

[jnjkerbin]

No. Part of the appeal of train travel is to avoid all this kind of silliness that blights the aviation industry. We all know Branson loves to pretend that Virgin Trains is an airline (sardine can trains, silly gimmicks, train crew dressed as air hostesses etc.), but this would be ridiculous, even by his standards. What exactly is the problem with the current boarding situation? Why not stick to the way that has worked well for the last 150 years rather than making the journey experience even more unpleasant.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Absolutely terrible idea. Just put the platforms on the displays earlier and let people queue by the doors.

If you think it'd work with LNR you're very much mistaken and you don't understand their boarding processes.

Well, I think in general if we are to make train services more sustainable on long distance services, then we need to take a look at boarding procedures at terminus stations like this... The current method is broken, and potentially dangerous. This would avoid a huge crush in the waiting hall, and would speed up the process. Its not perfect, but if it works well to get a plane boarded in under 15 minutes, it can work well for a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What exactly is the problem with the current boarding situation?

Have you *seen* the Euston scrum in full force?

But what is needed to be solved is the idea of 1000 people running from the concourse to the train at once. And the way to do that is to allow them to do that in dribs and drabs - i.e. sooner.

Other things that would provide a benefit would be more reservations - my model of marking reserved coaches rather than seats and having reservations with seat selection available right up to departure by mobile phone and at the TVM would do that quite well. Remove the reason to run and people won't run, they'll board at their leisure. Low-cost airlines are much nicer places to be now the scrum has gone.

 

[theironroad]

Absolutely terrible idea. Just put the platforms on the displays earlier and let people queue by the doors.

If you think it'd work with LNR you're very much mistaken and you don't understand their boarding processes.

I'm not sure how long turn round vt get at euston, but on arrival and once train is checked as empty, doors could be closed. This would allow cleaners and catering staff to work unhindered. If train has a confirmed crew en route, then platform could be advertised earlier and as you suggest , passengers could wait on platform by their relevant coach. Doors get opened, boarding done pdq.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Have you *seen* the Euston scrum in full force?

Yes. If this idea happened, we'd just have a massive scrum to get into the different queues - no difference whatsoever. What needs to happen is to open up the entrances to the platforms and build ticket barriers, which is unlikely to happen. In any case, with Euston being rebuilt in the next decade or so, this sort of system would be very short term. Maybe the easily upset might find it a little bit stressful, but surely they can man/woman up until a better solution is found.

 

[MotCO]

The only time I have used Euston, I used RealTimeTrains to find out the platform for my train and just strolled along before the platform was announced to all and sundry.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure how long turn round vt get at euston, but on arrival and once train is checked as empty, doors could be closed. This would allow cleaners and catering staff to work unhindered. If train has a confirmed crew en route, then platform could be advertised earlier and as you suggest , passengers could wait on platform by their relevant coach. Doors get opened, boarding done pdq.

Yes, I agree. There'd still be issues when there were delays, but typically a VTWC train is at Euston for half an hour or more yet boarding is rarely more than 10 minutes before. Everyone off, lock the doors, call the train and do the cleaning. Few people will be there 30 minutes beforehand, so they'll go down in dribs and drabs, queue at the doors...and the scrum will be gone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only time I have used Euston, I used RealTimeTrains to find out the platform for my train and just strolled along before the platform was announced to all and sundry.

Yep, I do that too

You can tell who has RTT

 

[DenmarkRail]

My general hope, and aim (believe me, I say aim, I mean dream... I have no power) is to half the turn around time at EUS, and I believe this can help achieve that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My general hope, and aim (believe me, I say aim, I mean dream... I have no power) is to half the turn around time at EUS, and I believe this can help achieve that.

Why?

The layovers at Euston are just fine and ensure a reliable service on the WCML. Cutting them would be lunacy.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Why?

The layovers at Euston are just fine and ensure a reliable service on the WCML. Cutting them would be lunacy.

Kaizen... You can always say what’s the point in efficiency savings, but there is no lie in saying that extra efficiency means better results for passengers and the customers.

Things can always be made better

 

[theironroad]

Yep, I do that too

You can tell who has RTT

I do but in conjunction with open train times maps so I can see that the running id is actually alongside the platform RTT says it is. Once used RTT and went to the platform only for a last minute platform alteration in RTT. RTT showed the booked platform while open maps is reality. Even that's not a 100% as they may nick the stock at last minute for something else, but seems to work.

 

[bramling]

Here is a plan that I have devised to solve the current boarding issues at Euston. Currently only works with Virgin services, but I am sure it could be adapted for LNWR. Here is the idea.

GENERAL IDEA
Each ramp to the platform will be split into 2, one side will be General boarding, the other will be 'RAILPRIORITY'. At the end of each ramp there will be a gate agent, who will check that your eligble for RAILPRIORITY and then scan your ticket. After the gate agent has boarded the RAILPRIORITY people, then they will open general boarding. Platforms will be announced sooner than currently, but boarding times will remain unchanged for general boarding, but sooner for RAILPRIORITY.

ELIGABILITY
All passengers with the following status will be eligable:
-All passengers travelling in First Class
-(CURRENTLY) anybody with a nectarcard account connected to their account
-(PROPOSED FUTURE, replacing Nectar) Anyone with a Tier2 or Tier3 frequent travel card (another idea for Virgin Trains services)
-(CURRENTLY) Any top tier members of Delta/Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program
-Anyone who purchased this feature at booking

Questions
What if 2 trains are using the ramp at the same time? - If 2 trains are scheduled to depart within 5 minuites of eachother, they will board together. If one train is scheduled to depart above 5 minuites between eachother, then the first train will be boarded before the other. If an LNWR service is boarding at the same time as a VT service, the LNWR passengers would board in the general boarding line, while the eligable VT passengers would board using RailPriority

What if a LNWR or London Overground service is using the platforms? Then the RAILPRIORITY lane will be roped off, and the general boarding line would be used (Could work with LNWR eventually)

How will a frequent traveller program work? - Similar to an airline version, after a certain ammount of legs with a partner company, your status will rise. You will earn miles to redeem for an upgrade, money for the onboard shop, or for a journey on a partner operator.

Could any operator use this program? - In theory yes, but that would be down to Virgin Trains to negotiate who they would allie themselves with. I can't see why this wouldn't be able to extend to VTEC and Stagecoach services though.

Could RailPriority work at other stations? - This method is currently optimised due to the ramps acting as a rudimentary boarding area at EUS, but in theory, I can't see why this can't be adapted to work at other terminus stations, potentially as a method to remove the timewasting of barriers. Smaller stations like Stafford, or Grantham may not be eligible.

What benefit would this have for the customer? For first class customers, and eligible customers, with this idea, you will be able to board the train before anyone else, which extends the ground benefits of someone who spends a lot of their time traveling with Virgin. The ability to get on the train sooner, allows the customer to be settled, and for Virgin to expand their pre departure service, such as pre departure drinks. For the standard customer, the rush to the gate will be less prominant, and the boarding process will be quicker due to the formation of more structured way of boarding.

How would staff benefit from this? Staff will be able to operate a smoother process, which is much quicker. The formation of an orderly line will allow staff to properly attend to the needs of a customer, without being rushed or pushed by a crowd attempting to board a train.

How will this be policed? A member of staff will check that the tickets / passes are marked RAILPRIORITY before boarding has begun. This will be checked again once boarding has begun, and the passenger is getting their pass scanned. If their pass is not marked priority, they will be asked to join the back of the general que.

How will a frequent traveller scheme transfer between franchises? I would like to hope it would continue as usual, until a partner operator withdrew. If the main company decided to withdraw, then the bonus program could continue to be used amongst partners.

How would RailPriority be transfered between franchises? This could continue as usual.

THIS IS JUST AN IDEA - PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS HERE, OR CONTACT ME DIRECTLY.

Seems to me to just be a way of certain people attempting to legitimise jumping the queue. There would still be a scrum to reach the train in the normal lane - possibly even more desparate than today.

As others have said, the solution really is simply to get the platforms advertised sooner. There are only so many people who will, or even can, get to the station early - so those who make the effort get rewarded, which seems very fair to me. Could look at keeping the trains closed to allow preparation, with queues forming by each individual door. How about publishing information on the platform as to how many, or even which specific, seats are unreserved in each carriage?

 

[DenmarkRail]

Seems to me to just be a way of certain people attempting to legitimise jumping the queue. There would still be a scrum to reach the train in the normal lane - possibly even more desparate than today.

As others have said, the solution really is simply to get the platforms advertised sooner. There are only so many people who will, or even can, get to the station early - so those who make the effort get rewarded, which seems very fair to me. Could look at keeping the trains closed to allow preparation, with queues forming by each individual door. How about publishing information on the platform as to how many, or even which specific, seats are unreserved in each carriage?

It’s a way of rewarding loyalty, creating extra revenue, and adding extra benefits for first class customers. Just like how the same happens on thousands of flights every day.

Not legitimising que jumping.

 

[skyhigh]

Kaizen... You can always say what’s the point in efficiency savings, but there is no lie in saying that extra efficiency means better results for passengers and the customers.

Things can always be made better

I disagree - I don't think spending a lot of money on a scheme like this is the best idea, particularly in the name of 'efficiency'. I'd also dispute that possibly halving any available recovery time for long distance services would produce a better result for passengers. I've observed the scrum effect many times before when I worked at Euston and I really don't think this will help, sorry.

How will this be policed? A member of staff will check that the tickets / passes are marked RAILPRIORITY before boarding has begun. This will be checked again once boarding has begun, and the passenger is getting their pass scanned. If their pass is not marked priority, they will be asked to join the back of the general que.

Given the rigmarole with introducing the new ticket format, I'd hate to think how difficult it would be to get tickets marked with something like that.

 

[DarloRich]

Here is a plan that I have devised to solve the current boarding issues at Euston.

A solution looking for a problem

ELIGABILITY
All passengers with the following status will be eligable:
-All passengers travelling in First Class
-(CURRENTLY) anybody with a nectarcard account connected to their account
-(PROPOSED FUTURE, replacing Nectar) Anyone with a Tier2 or Tier3 frequent travel card (another idea for Virgin Trains services)
-(CURRENTLY) Any top tier members of Delta/Virgin Atlantic frequent flyer program
-Anyone who purchased this feature at booking

Into the scum queue you you filth! Sod those of us paying loads for short notice second class tickets eh? Cant have first class travelers or those with a special card for an unrelated airline looking on the common people

Kaizen... You can always say what’s the point in efficiency savings, but there is no lie in saying that extra efficiency means better results for passengers and the customers.

Things can always be made better

how do you propose to "kaizen" ( aka continuous improvement) the capacity issues on the WCML?

If you think it'd work with LNR you're very much mistaken and you don't understand their boarding processes.

You mean the stampede of the Commuterbeest where he ( or she) with the fleetest foot and the sharpest elbows wins the seat?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You mean the stampede of the Commuterbeest where he ( or she) with the fleetest foot and the sharpest elbows wins the seat?

Nah, RTT is the way

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Kaizen... You can always say what’s the point in efficiency savings, but there is no lie in saying that extra efficiency means better results for passengers and the customers.

Things can always be made better

At what point does kaizen become detrimental though? We could have 10 minute turnarounds at Euston but that leaves you with zero margin for anything at all to go wrong. The last thing you want is having a train 5 late heading south at Carlisle and knowing as a result the train four hours later from Euston to Birmingham is going to screw the entire Coventry corridor (important point here: ergo screwing over passengers). Minimal turnarounds is great for the likes of Fenchurch Street, where you have units on short, sharp out and backs and not a lot of capacity to play with; but when you have trains travelling hundreds of miles over dozens of conflict points, bottlenecks, junctions etc. it is stupid to have no breathing space in your planning. Efficiency in train planning isn't just about pinging everything, everywhere at every opportunity, it is a fine balance of performance, risk, operations, commerciality, deliverability etc. Network Rail for example already stipulate 40 mins for a Pendo to turn at Glasgow Central (hence Motherwell and Lockerbie are so difficult to shoehorn in as additional calls).

 

[paul1609]

Id terminate all trains from the regions at South Eastern Gateway stations such as London Milton Keynes. Travellers could transfer to high capacity commuter trains at these Gateways ending the practise of valuable space being hogged by Low capacity Intercity trains. Would eliminate the need for unnecessary high speed lines at a stroke.

 

[DarloRich]

Id terminate all trains from the regions at South Eastern Gateway stations such as London Milton Keynes. Travellers could transfer to high capacity commuter trains at these Gateways ending the practise of valuable space being hogged by Low capacity Intercity trains. Would eliminate the need for unessecary high speed lines at a stroke.

I suspect your idea might not just eliminate the need for unessecary (sic) high speed lines at a stroke. It would also eliminate intercity travel. Well done. Two birds with one stone. It is blue sky thinking night tonight I see!

 

[paul1609]

I suspect your idea might not just eliminate the need for unessecary (sic) high speed lines at a stroke. It would also eliminate intercity travel. Well done. Two birds with one stone. It is blue sky thinking night tonight I see!

Thanks for pointing out the typo

 

[DarloRich]

Thanks for pointing out the typo

no worries - it is rare for me to be able to pic them up as i cant proof read on screen.

 

[randyrippley]

Stupid offensive idea.
Its equivalent to saying that because I don't / won't use a Nectar card I'm an untermensch and my money is worth less.

Strikes me as coming from the Mussolini school of train management (well he did make them run to time)

 

[The Ham]

What could work is providing a text/email to those who booked direct with Virgin providing platform details a few minutes earlier. For those that buy a ticket at a TVM there could be a zero cost "ticket" that provides you with a code to text for your train which then registers you for the same service.

It would benefit those who book direct, without causing problems for those who buy a ticket fairly last minute.