Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[markymark2000]

The funding wasn't route-specific. It was based on total scheduled mileage. Hulley's wouldn't be the only operator by a long way to take advantage of that.

The funding has been to keep bus services going and stop operators going out of business. Nothing to do with "key workers".

Wasn't it meant to be total scheduled mileage pre COVID though as part of the conditions were that services had to be running at a certain percentage and stuff like that.

As for the funding, getting people to work was also a reason. Think how many NHS staff wouldn't have gotten to work without buses in place. Yes keeping companies in business but if it wasn't a priority to keep people who needed to go out, moving, they may as well have told operators to close the gates and simply put everyone on furlough and apply for the relevant grants and funding or even still paid up the money but less would have been paid out as there wouldn't be the operating overheads.

 

[Goldfish62]

Wasn't it meant to be total scheduled mileage pre COVID though as part of the conditions were that services had to be running at a certain percentage and stuff like that.

As for the funding, getting people to work was also a reason. Think how many NHS staff wouldn't have gotten to work without buses in place. Yes keeping companies in business but if it wasn't a priority to keep people who needed to go out, moving, they may as well have told operators to close the gates and simply put everyone on furlough and apply for the relevant grants and funding or even still paid up the money but less would have been paid out as there wouldn't be the operating overheads.

I'm highly sceptical as to how many shift workers ("key workers" if you like) used buses to get to and from work during Covid anyway, especially outside cities where frequent services are provided.

Closing down bus operations during lockdown would have meant even more of an uphill struggle getting passengers back.

Re the conditions of the funding, that's broadly correct, but as I say there are plenty of operators that have taken advantage of it and it's all going to come crashing down like a tonne of bricks in April because the punters are simply not returning.

 

[markymark2000]

I'm highly sceptical as to how many shift workers ("key workers" if you like) used buses to get to and from work during Covid anyway, especially outside cities where frequent services are provided.

Closing down bus operations during lockdown would have meant even more of an uphill struggle getting passengers back.

Re the conditions of the funding, that's broadly correct, but as I say there are plenty of operators that have taken advantage of it and it's all going to come crashing down like a tonne of bricks in April because the punters are simply not returning.

IF very few shift workers and people were travelling during Covid (which you are right, the numbers were low), why were bused provided at all. Surely a waste of money!

Closing down operations for the lockdown wouldn't have had much impact if numbers were so low.


As for punters not returning, there is huge regional variation on that as the UK average is 80% (source Govt Stats) so to say 'punters aren't returning' is somewhat misleading as people are returning back. Just not as much as they were. It seems to me that it is mainly rural areas which are suffering though, in which case, why are operators wasting money on new ventures rather than trying to sort out making their existing bus network viable! Maybe spend more time on marketing and winning people back rather than wasting resources serving an Airport at a time when passenger numbers through the airport are significantly lower (down 66% using stats from the civil aviation authority for Manchester Airport comparing Sept 2019 to Sept 2021).

 

[Cesarcollie]

Interesting point of view. Let's revisit this in a year's time and see who was closer to the truth.

The DfT are using a baseline of January 2020. As January is one of the lowest months for bus patronage, the figure for (say) September just gone is not a like-for-like. Operators own figures are more reliable. These vary hugely but tend to be 70-80% for cash payers, and only between 50% and 60% for Concessionary passholders. That’s for England outside London - I can’t speak for Wales or Scotland.

 

[Killingworth]

The DfT are using a baseline of January 2020. As January is one of the lowest months for bus patronage, the figure for (say) September just gone is not a like-for-like. Operators own figures are more reliable. These vary hugely but tend to be 70-80% for cash payers, and only between 50% and 60% for Concessionary passholders. That’s for England outside London - I can’t speak for Wales or Scotland.

Hulley's are contracted by SYPTE to run their M17 route in Sheffield which has seemed to operate almost normally throughout. I'd say 90% are concessionary travellers who seemed to get back to normal fairly quickly - maybe 6 on a busy bus, so fairly safe.

 

[markymark2000]

The DfT are using a baseline of January 2020. As January is one of the lowest months for bus patronage, the figure for (say) September just gone is not a like-for-like. Operators own figures are more reliable. These vary hugely but tend to be 70-80% for cash payers, and only between 50% and 60% for Concessionary passholders. That’s for England outside London - I can’t speak for Wales or Scotland.

Numbers do vary as when the DFT cited 70%, an operator in Worcestershire was reporting less than 50% so there is a lot of variation. Even with variation though, there must be people on much higher than 80% to counteract those who are on 50% usage.


Not many operators are reporting figures publicly though which makes it difficult. Even based off 50% passengers though (which is the worst an operator has reported in recent times), they are going about things the wrong way and it is self inflicted.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Numbers do vary as when the DFT cited 70%, an operator in Worcestershire was reporting less than 50% so there is a lot of variation. Even with variation though, there must be people on much higher than 80% to counteract those who are on 50% usage.


Not many operators are reporting figures publicly though which makes it difficult. Even based off 50% passengers though (which is the worst an operator has reported in recent times), they are going about things the wrong way and it is self inflicted.

In what way is government messaging which implied that travelling by public transport would almost certainly result in instant death whilst drinking in a pub was okay ‘self inflicted’....?

 

[markymark2000]

In what way is government messaging which implied that travelling by public transport would almost certainly result in instant death whilst drinking in a pub was okay ‘self inflicted’....?

Government messaging was bad, I fully agree with you there.
Self inflicted bit though is putting unsuitable vehicles on the route (darts for example. For this style route, you need decent spec Volvos, not darts with Urban 90 seats!), Messing with the route every few days which would have led to some uncertainty over the route. Trying to run the route to the airport when the airports passenger numbers are down 60%. Advertising the through links to the X1 which lasted a day and the driver shortage will not be giving passengers faith that they can rely on the service. Not serving any stops on Hyde Road and not serving Hyde Bus Station from the start (given Hyde is a bus interchange for a number of routes, these could have shuttled people into the X57).

Then we have to add in the advertising. Other than a few small bits out on the streets, it hasn't been that heavily promoted. Bits were done both at bus stops and online but I don't think it was promoted enough and certainly didn't market towards the students who could have been the making of the route. Students like to save money and don't mind being on buses for longer if it means saving decent amounts of money. It was also not really promoted for some of the more local journeys either side of Snake Pass. Such as Glossop to Manchester (a heavily used rail route), more recently Hyde to Manchester or Glossop to Hyde or Manchester Road into Sheffield.

 

[philthetube]

IF very few shift workers and people were travelling during Covid (which you are right, the numbers were low), why were bused provided at all. Surely a waste of money!

Closing down operations for the lockdown wouldn't have had much impact if numbers were so low.


As for punters not returning, there is huge regional variation on that as the UK average is 80% (source Govt Stats) so to say 'punters aren't returning' is somewhat misleading as people are returning back. Just not as much as they were. It seems to me that it is mainly rural areas which are suffering though, in which case, why are operators wasting money on new ventures rather than trying to sort out making their existing bus network viable! Maybe spend more time on marketing and winning people back rather than wasting resources serving an Airport at a time when passenger numbers through the airport are significantly lower (down 66% using stats from the civil aviation authority for Manchester Airport comparing Sept 2019 to Sept 2021).

Just an observation, if 20% of passengers are not returning that means 20% of revenue is not there, unless companies were making more that 20% profit prior to covid, they will now be running at a loss unless services have been cut.

 

[GusB]

The subject of the thread is Hulley's, but we seem to have drifted somewhat. Please stay on topic!

 

[Manclad83]

Theres certainly some valid and pertinent points regarding Hulleys X57.

The route changes have been frequent and yes it should have served Hyde from the start. It should never have gone to the airport. Airport by bus is a funny one. It has to be frequent, comfortable with the ability to pre booked, and reliable. Reliable will often only be achieved through frequency. Holiday makers won’t use the service otherwise and it certainly needs to be frequent to attract anyone who works the airport. Remember also, for those who live on the stretch without an airport service in Greater Manchester Glossop-Gorton, the service isn’t the most direct.

I can’t help but think that the service should have gone to the Trafford Centre if it had to be extended at all. Express Hyde to Manchester and Express to The Trafford Centre could have made it attractive in the Glossop and Hyde areas.
An interesting topic and debate about Hulleys (and the X57).

 

[M60lad]

While extending X57 from Manchester-Trafford might seem a good idea and the majority of time it could run to time there's always the times when Manchester United are playing at home which obviously generates extra traffic on roads in/around Old Trafford and I've been on local buses in the past which can take upto an extra hour or more to get to/from Trafford Centre so you could in theory get X57 arriving at Trafford when its supposed to be back in Manchester.

There's also the run up to Christmas and other busy occasions which can also delay services running to/from Trafford Centre.

 

[daodao]

So the X57 service has been given its death sentence. IMO, it was unlikely to have been viable from the outset. Of more concern to local bus passengers in the White Peak is whether Hulley's dabbling in speculative longer distance routes outside their core operating area will have destabilised the company to such an extent that it is now at risk of going under.

 

[bussnapperwm]

It was a case of a good idea, but about 10-12 years too late

 

[ALEMASTER]

Hulley's are contracted by SYPTE to run their M17 route in Sheffield which has seemed to operate almost normally throughout. I'd say 90% are concessionary travellers who seemed to get back to normal fairly quickly - maybe 6 on a busy bus, so fairly safe.

There was mention that Hulleys were having issues with TfGM paying the reimbursements for ENCTS free concessionary pass holders boarding in their area which is interesting. Not sure if they meant they were refusing to pay at all or were just being slow but the suggestion was if the X57 was to return then concessionary passes would not be accepted to board in Greater Manchester.

 

[M60lad]

From what I've read on another forum apparently Hulleys have loaned Volvo B7 MX55FHH to Warringtons Own Buses due to a current shortage of vehicles Warringtons Own have got at the moment.

 

[RustySpoons]

From what I've read on another forum apparently Hulleys have loaned Volvo B7 MX55FHH to Warringtons Own Buses due to a current shortage of vehicles Warringtons Own have got at the moment.

Believe that (and two?? others) went back to Connexions for them to sell/hire on.

 

[Bwsbro]

From what I've read on another forum apparently Hulleys have loaned Volvo B7 MX55FHH to Warringtons Own Buses due to a current shortage of vehicles Warringtons Own have got at the moment.

MX55FHH is currently at Warrington Own Buses was photographed today in service. Doesn’t look good with two silver side panels covering the Snake X57 livery

 

[M60lad]

Can see Hulleys having problems first thing this morning running service due to severe weather conditions in some places, some places have had heavy snow overnight and its still snowing this morning and other places the strong winds have brought trees down and caused other problems.

 

[daodao]

Can see Hulleys having problems first thing this morning running service due to severe weather conditions in some places, some places have had heavy snow overnight and its still snowing this morning and other places the strong winds have brought trees down and caused other problems.

Both the Snake and Woodhead passes are currently closed (as are many other Trans-Pennine roads including the M62) and there is reportedly heavy snow in Buxton.

Frankly, the X57 service should never have been introduced as a daily all year service. A Glossop-Sheffield service on summer weekends and bank holidays, using a single bus, is all that is worth providing for the A57/Snake pass.

 

[Manclad83]

Both the Snake and Woodhead passes are currently closed (as are many other Trans-Pennine roads including the M62) and there is reportedly heavy snow in Buxton.

Frankly, the X57 service should never have been introduced as a daily all year service. A Glossop-Sheffield service on summer weekends and bank holidays, using a single bus, is all that is worth providing for the A57/Snake pass.

The same could be said about much of Hulleys operating area if we are looking at it in the context of weather.

 

[317 forever]

Both the Snake and Woodhead passes are currently closed (as are many other Trans-Pennine roads including the M62) and there is reportedly heavy snow in Buxton.

Frankly, the X57 service should never have been introduced as a daily all year service. A Glossop-Sheffield service on summer weekends and bank holidays, using a single bus, is all that is worth providing for the A57/Snake pass.

This explains why my X57 did not turn up this morning. I arrived at Chorlton Street around 11.10 but by 12.30 the 11.30 X57 had not arrived. I gave up then and doubt I shall ride it now.

 

[Killingworth]

This explains why my X57 did not turn up this morning. I arrived at Chorlton Street around 11.10 but by 12.30 the 11.30 X57 had not arrived. I gave up then and doubt I shall ride it now.

Most buses were off the road in Sheffield until mid-morning. Snow was drifting across the higher roads out into the Peak District but turned to slush in the centre. Its going to be treacherous in the morning with iced melt water in unexpected places despite gritting.

 

[Goldfish62]

There was mention that Hulleys were having issues with TfGM paying the reimbursements for ENCTS free concessionary pass holders boarding in their area which is interesting. Not sure if they meant they were refusing to pay at all or were just being slow but the suggestion was if the X57 was to return then concessionary passes would not be accepted to board in Greater Manchester.

I have it on reliable authority that TfGM sent them the requisite forms to make the claims, but Hulley's never returned them.

 

[chessie]

Not officially confirmed yet by Hulleys but according to numerous comments on Facebook, they will be running the 55/55A Chesterfield - Alfreton seven days a week taking over fully from Stagecoach. It also appears Stagecoach are pulling the plug on the 56 Chesterfield - Alfreton soon.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not officially confirmed yet by Hulleys but according to numerous comments on Facebook, they will be running the 55/55A Chesterfield - Alfreton seven days a week taking over fully from Stagecoach. It also appears Stagecoach are pulling the plug on the 56 Chesterfield - Alfreton soon.

That would certainly be good news for Hulley's.

 

[Simon75]

That would certainly be good news for Hulley's.

A lot of Hulleys work involves a lot of dead miles ,Chesterfield to Baslow c10 miles), Baslow to Sheffield c14 miles .
I guess is still commercially viable to run theses buses (including driver changes,)

 

[markymark2000]

A lot of Hulleys work involves a lot of dead miles ,Chesterfield to Baslow c10 miles), Baslow to Sheffield c14 miles .
I guess is still commercially viable to run theses buses (including driver changes,)

Probably interwork it with the X70 somehow.

 

[johnnychips]

I was under the impression that Hulley’s X57 ended on January 9th. However, it has now disappeared from the website. I was planning to visit my Auntie Vera in Hollingworth next week using it. Does anybody know if it’s been jacked in, before I ring them?

 

[gnolife]

I was under the impression that Hulley’s X57 ended on January 9th. However, it has now disappeared from the website. I was planning to visit my Auntie Vera in Hollingworth next week using it. Does anybody know if it’s been jacked in before I ring them?

I don't know, but please keep us posted on what you find out - I was planning on using it early next week as well