Hull Trains Adelante problems

[attics26]

brake problem this morning at Hull and runs 30+ late to KX and returns 20+ late start from KX - was going to terminate Doncaster but didnt quite make it finally giving up the fight at Bawtry - single line working ecml heavy delays and multiple cancellations ensue.

3 paths per hour in each direction over slw - 180113 hopefully to assist failure to Doncaster.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1H04 has now assisited 1H03 into Doncaster but multiple cancellations and delays in excess of an hour to NXEC and GC services - just shows doesnt take much to make it go wrong - 4 track mainline anyone.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Thankfully I was in front of it!! I think the 1130 off KGX may have been the last one through...

 

[attics26]

yeah you were fortunate - 1a62 return working only got as far as Doncaster!

 

[Max]

These 180s need some SERIOUS work, or else they are going to seriously damage Hull Train's reputation.

 

[1D53]

They were f**ked yesterday too. 110 and 111 both demics y'day.

 

[djw1981]

Given that the thread title is a) factually correct but b) not what this topic is about, could a mod please correct it.

 

[TGVDUDE]

didn't FGW drop them because off their unreliabillity? and yet they stike again! lol

 

[WillPS]

Their short length didn't help things, either.

 

[GNERman]

they're perfect for open access but reliability is a problem...

 

[deltic7]

Another day of complete chaos, as I write this the 2030 hasn't left the Cross yet, not suprisingly it's only going as far as Dony if it ever does leave, the 1918 ex Hull was supposed to start at Dony at 2011 and the National Rail website gives an expected time of departure of 2025 but no actual departure.

0948 ex London was caped completely, 1706 ex Hull caped at Dony.:roll:

 

[jon0844]

Grand Central are really going to have fun when they get these to replace their existing unreliable fleet!

I remember in 2006 when I asked Elaine Holt if FCC would be getting the 180s and she said it would over her dead body. Mind you, her preference was to get HSTs. She didn't get either.

 

[BOSCH]

Grand Central are really going to have fun when they get these to replace their existing unreliable fleet!

Really ? What makes you so sure ? Do you know the specifics of the leasing contract ? Do you know of the leasing arrangements,the maintenance arrangements etc ???? NO,Thought not !!

 

[Pumbaa]

Grand Central are really going to have fun when they get these to replace their existing unreliable fleet!

They are not to replace, they are to supplement.

 

[BOSCH]

They are not to replace, they are to supplement.

Thank you Pumbaa,I had meant to include that in my post !!

 

[jon0844]

Really ? What makes you so sure ? Do you know the specifics of the leasing contract ? Do you know of the leasing arrangements,the maintenance arrangements etc ???? NO,Thought not !!

Why did you actually bother to post that? You asked a question then answered it yourself. You could have saved the time by saying nothing, especially when it's pretty likely that I don't know the specifics of the leasing contract. I do question what a leasing contract has to do with the reliability of a type of rolling stock though!

And apologies for my error regarding replacement, but considering how unreliable the 180s have been - and still are now Hull Trains have them - I really do wonder what miracles GC going to perform on them.

But I'll be the first to apologise when I'm proved wrong.

For the record though, when they work, I really enjoy travelling on them. I also think First have done a great job with the new livery on them, and have no doubt the GC livery will look great too. But, punters don't care for that when you have a company cancelling loads of trains!

 

[David Pemberton]

1850 KGX to Hull Adelente failed yesterday (Thursday 25th June) a mile or so north of Grantham. I only comment because I got off at Grantham and the following may add some colour.

Left KGX on time and arrived at Grantham approx 5 mins early (1947ish). Just before Grantham there was an announcement that all passengers would have to de-train at Retford and swap to another Hull Trains Adelente service. The reason was that a train needed to go for maintenance (but it wasn't clear if it was the 1850 or the replacement train off to the depot).

With five minutes to kill, at Grantham the NXEC dispatcher chatting to the HT guard said that it was nice for HT to be early for once, all perfectly friendly. At 1851 the HT driver literally sprinted from his cab down the platform to the penultimate unit and started pushing buttons whilst talking on his mobile to someone. At 1854 he sprinted back to his cab and off the train went. I noticed that there was no exhuast smoke from the unit he'd been looking at.

A a few minutes later I hopped on the EMT service to Nottingham. We passed the HT Adelante stationary on the mainline at about the point where the line branches to Nottingham. The driver was on the track with his high viz jacket on, cab door open. Poor old HT I thought.

Adelante was nice enough. Lighting was a bit like a morgue. Didn't feel like a very warm place to be. But the seats were comfortable.

Apparently the ex-HT Pioneers aren't as reliable for EMT as their own Meridians. So HT seem to be suffering from a maintenance jinx, or perhaps the diagrams/utilization has been too arduous.

 

[rail-britain]

This mornings 07:20 Kings Cross - Hull was cancelled
The staff turned up at about 06:40, stood around, then went for the 07:30 to Newcastle

 

[yorkie]

1A91 0625 HUL-KGX appears to have terminated at Donny.
1A92 0812 HUL-KGX did well at only 26 late into KGX
1A93 1012 HUL-KGX did well at only 27 late into KGX
1A94 1245 HUL-KGX Shockingly ran on time
1A95 1518 HUL-KGX Cancelled
1A96 1706 HUL-KGX appears to have terminated at Grantham.

1H01 0720 KGX-HUL Cancelled
1H02 0948 KGX-HUL Cancelled
1H03 1148 KGX-HUL Shockingly ran on time
1H04 1333 KGX-HUL did very well by HT standards by being a mere 18 mins late!
1H05 1605 KGX-HUL Shockingly ran on time
1H06 1850 KGX-HUL Cancelled

Welcome to a usual day on 'ull Trains.

They probably should be congratulated for making 3 of them actually run to schedule, a nice surprise for any remaining passengers!

I was at 'ull on Tuesday night and hardly anyone was using their services to or from that city. I guess they make their money from ORCATS Donny/Retford/Grantham to London

 

[David Pemberton]

Perhaps if they're doing an ORCATS raid they don't actually need to run a reliable service? How are the revenue splits calculated? Does PPM matter? Is there such a thing as PPM for Open Access?

I did wonder if my NOT-LON Any Permitted season ticket would be valid on HT. No one checked my ticket and as they aren't relaible enough for a commuter with choices I may never find out.

 

[Max]

I was at 'ull on Tuesday night and hardly anyone was using their services to or from that city. I guess they make their money from ORCATS Donny/Retford/Grantham to London

To be fair, it's not too fair to judge just from the 1918 off Hull, it's one of the quieter services. Many services run pretty much full, but for how much longer, I'm not sure.

 

[djw1981]

I note the delight and irony some people find in HT doing badly (run by First) but GC (true independents) are feted.

 

[jon0844]

I am simply concerned about the reliability of the 180s in general - and both TOCs use them and seem to be suffering as a result.

The problem is they're nice looking trains. I like the interior and they're relatively new - so I cannot understand how or why they're so bad.

Now we see how Bombardier are messing up everything they're putting out and I wonder how come modern trains are so poor!

I wonder how reliable the Hitachi 395s will be in the long run. Perhaps it's time for the 'usual' train makers to hang up their gloves!

 

[asylumxl]

When you say Bombardier I assume you mean the 222s and 377/5s?

I think we should be more worried about Alstom, with the 180s. They're known to leak and consume oil at a stupid rate. Apparently Alstom considers this normal.

I assume they'd fix it right away had it been their TGV and AGv trains. Unfortunately they don't seem too dedicated to the British market.

 

[Daimler]

Grand Central are really going to have fun when they get these to replace their existing unreliable fleet!

I remember in 2006 when I asked Elaine Holt if FCC would be getting the 180s and she said it would over her dead body. Mind you, her preference was to get HSTs. She didn't get either.

Without wishing to off-topic-ise this thread, what were these supposed to be for?

 

[yorkie]

To be fair, it's not too fair to judge just from the 1918 off Hull, it's one of the quieter services. Many services run pretty much full, but for how much longer, I'm not sure.

but the inbound arrival was even quieter!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I note the delight and irony some people find in HT doing badly (run by First) but GC (true independents) are feted.

Perhaps some people have the sense to realise that 180s are unreliable? I don't think there is any 'delight' - more of an "I told you so!"

Don't you find it odd that NXEC don't accuse Hull Trains of ORCATS raids, despite the fact they blatantly do. Yet they accuse GC of that, despite GC having many more customers go all the way to Sunderland than HT have go to Hull (based on what I've witnessed).

GC are not allowed to call at places like Doncaster and Grantham because it would be an "ORCATS raid", yet HT are allowed to call. How does that make sense?

It's not a level playing field at all, and HT have clearly been given preferential treatment over GC.

NXEC rant about GC being an ORCATS raid yet are silent about the true ORCATS raiders.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Without wishing to off-topic-ise this thread, what were these supposed to be for?

The extra services that are running! They got 317s and 320s instead, which was sensible but it meant waiting ages for them.

Class 86s and coaches were also mooted.

 

[rail-britain]

GC are not allowed to call at places like Doncaster and Grantham because it would be an "ORCATS raid", yet HT are allowed to call. How does that make sense?

HT have permission to stop at Doncaster and Grantham, Grand Central do not, hence if GC do stop at any station AND pickup passengers then they will be penalised

 

[jon0844]

Without wishing to off-topic-ise this thread, what were these supposed to be for?

I can't remember if it was to bolster the KGX to Peterborough or Cambridge services, but it was in 2006 - shortly after they took over from Wagn - and it was before they started to do the capacity surveying, which has seen us get the new timetable and just 5 new Class 321 trains.

HSTs weren't ideal because obviously they're not electric, but she absolutely did not want the 180s. In the end, time solved the problem.

She was also starting talks with TfL to increase the all-station services (313s) to a 15-minute frequency. TfL would be (will be) part paying for this too, but it will require more 313s and is still a work in progress as far as I know. Also she's left now!

 

[yorkie]

HT have permission to stop at Doncaster and Grantham, Grand Central do not, hence if GC do stop at any station AND pickup passengers then they will be penalised

Yes, that's what I said. GC have not been allowed to call, yet HT have. The reason given is that GC would do an "ORCATS raid" yet there appears to be no objections to HT doing an ORCATS raid! NXEC went bonkers at GC calling only at York, yet HT are allowed to call at all stations apart from Newark and Peterborough. (I read that the reason for not calling at Peterborough is for capacity limitations anyway - 4 platforms for all services including terminating NXEA/FCC services, and Cross Country and EMT services as well as NXEC!)

 

[1D53]

Funny really cos when it all goes tits up NX/NR expect GC to call at Doncaster!

 

[BOSCH]

Funny really cos when it all goes tits up NX/NR expect GC to call at Doncaster!

And P/boro !!!