HST's-Past, Present or Future?

[WillPS]

If that happens, it'd be nice for a few of them to be permanently modified to run in 9-car configuration with a corridor right the way through.

 

[Daimler]

I think, that HSTs should go to XC, but not to replace voyagers, but to strengthen them, because there wouldnt be a problem with a anti-XC refurb 8/9 voyager or HST on EVERY* train on the core route(s)

*Diagramed

Sounds far too sensible and logical to actually happen... :roll:

We can hope!

 

[MCR247]

Sounds far too sensible and logical to actually happen... :roll:

We can hope!

I know, but I find that people saying that voyagers arent suitable in their current state arent suitable for XC are right, but saying they arent suitable full stop is wrong, as they can be perfectley good trains if they were all doubled,

 

[Daimler]

I know, but I find that people saying that voyagers arent suitable in their current state arent suitable for XC are right, but saying they arent suitable full stop is wrong, as they can be perfectley good trains if they were all doubled,

Perfectly acceptable with some modifications - surely it's not that hard to line up seats better?

But not 'good' - I would like to think, had we been ordering a new batch, we'd think more carefully now. The thing that annoys me the most about Pendolinos/Voyagers is the waste of space caused by the tapering sides - they lend the train such a claustrophobic feel. This and underfloor engines mean I'd still rather be in a Mk3!

 

[MCR247]

Perfectly acceptable with some modifications (serious use of space issues), maybe.

But not 'good'. I'd still rather be in a Mk3!

i'm sure everyone would be, but i'm sure we'll live...

 

[Phoenix]

No they're not. They're even worse once refurbed! No flamin' buffet!

I strongly disaggre as I use them frequently and im very impressed by the following.

1. great ambience
2.clean look
3.great seating
4.Sheer Practicality

The point with taking out the buffet is it was deemed unnecessary by the company who do look into these things for instance I usually travel between BHM and DBY (derby if that's right) and I have never thought of getting up to try finding a buffet (I didn't actually know they didn't exist) as I get on at two major stations with much better cheaper food.
I will however agree it has put a few at a disadvantage but even worse is defiantly not the case.


But my point about the future of the HST being in the charter market is based upon the fact that a handful of tours a traveled for the purpose of a nice day out which is stress free and is not a normal service so you don't for a change have to change trains a 3rd or 4th time.
The point is normal people do not care what there going behind as long as it has big window doors you can open yourself.
And the companies want to make as much profit as possible and let's face it HST's are a hell of a lot cheaper than a MK2 charter rake.

 

[Daimler]

And the companies want to make as much profit as possible and let's face it HST's are a hell of a lot cheaper than a MK2 charter rake.

I don't wish to sound irritating, but..

How do we know this is the case?

 

[Phoenix]

I don't wish to sound irritating, but..

How do we know this is the case?

Sadly what you had from me there was a over exaggerated estimation but i base it upon the fact

1.It has two locomotives
2.Easier to path
3.use far less fuel
4.does not need to use any shunting

But I can easily see a HST set being completely gutted and turned into a luxury train set as MK 3's are very spacious and have far less complicated structure.
Plus how many of these sets will be kicking around in let's say 20 years considering hardly any have been scrapped at the moment.

 

[O L Leigh]

The charter rakes I see out and about also tend to have two locos "top and tailing" the train, thereby removing the need for shunting and using less fuel by virtue of having one loco "dead in train" at all times. They are also easy enough to path because they are usually formed up with Cl47's or Cl67's, either of which is capable of at least 95mph.

I don't know what will happen to the HST's. I would like to think that there will be a preserved set cleared for mainline use, but I wouldn't want to see one converted into a Pullman. Even the Northern Belle is wrong in my eyes, but only redeems itself by virtue of being not that far different from the former WCML BR Pullman services in the 1960's. A Pullman service should be formed of antique coaches specifically built to the Pullman standard, such as the VSOE coaches used on the British Pullman.

O L Leigh

 

[Daimler]

EDIT: O L Leigh beat me to all this, more or less!

Sadly what you had from me there was a over exaggerated estimation but i base it upon the fact

1.It has two locomotives

More expensive, surely?

2.Easier to path

A fair point, no doubt. Not necessarily cheaper, though.

3.use far less fuel

Huh? Surely not less than a 67? It has twice as many engines, they can't each use 50% of a 67's engine?

4.does not need to use any shunting

True indeed. What this does for cost is limited though - and can be replicated by another 67 DIT at the rear of the train either way - making a kind of HST-type train with variable length.

But I can easily see a HST set being completely gutted and turned into a luxury train set as MK 3's are very spacious and have far less complicated structure.

It's a nice idea, but I just see the Mk3s being used, perhaps, but without the 43s on either end - for charters, variable lengths and single locos - despite lower maximum speed, seem more attractive (the way I see them, anyhow).

 

[The Planner]

They are also easy enough to path because they are usually formed up with Cl47's or Cl67's, either of which is capable of at least 95mph.

Never timed at over 95mph though. All charter trains are planned at a max of 95.

 

[Pumbaa]

Never timed at over 95mph though. All charter trains are planned at a max of 95.

Any particular reason for this? Or is it just "the norm"?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

I know, but I find that people saying that voyagers arent suitable in their current state arent suitable for XC are right, but saying they arent suitable full stop is wrong, as they can be perfectley good trains if they were all doubled,

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but how does doubling a train get rid of the smell of ****, makes those bl00dy doors have sensors and get rid a lot of 2 seats with more tables?

Vomits don't have corridor connection so that's ****ed on yer bonfire before you've lit it up.

 

[devon_metro]

8 Vomits are a complete farce. Two Train Managers, 2 RSMs, 2 First Class Hosts...

8 HST: 1 Train Manager, 1 RSM, 1 Customer host. Lets not mention the fact that an HST is cheaper to run as it doesn't have 8 hilariously overpowered engines rumbling away for hours on end.

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

I strongly disaggre as I use them frequently and im very impressed by the following.

1. great ambience
2.clean look
3.great seating
4.Sheer Practicality

I totally disagree with all 4 of your points. Mainly 2/3 & 4.

Clean look:
Do you mean interior or exterior? As if it's exterior it really has nothing to do with how the train 'performs' in day to day service. Interior, I disagree - I believe they are the completely rancid for cleanliness inside and I assume you like the smell of excrements whilst you purchase your food from a trolley whilst doing the longest train route in the UK?

Great Seating:
The seating is crap, there is not enough tables at all and the seats are uncomfy and when you pull down the tray from the seat infront of you (Because you haven't got a table) it is filthy, and the paint is chipped and it's generally horrible

Practicality:
They would be practical on a route like Cardiff - Popmey but not key long routes across the UK. They're not practical as they don't have enough tables or seats for that matter, 4 or 5 cars isn't enough and even when you double up you have the problem of no corridor connections.

 

[The Planner]

Any particular reason for this? Or is it just "the norm"?

Top whack for a 47.

 

[Pumbaa]

Top whack for a 47.

Stupid me. Thanks!

 

[MCR247]

Forgive me if i'm wrong, but how does doubling a train get rid of the smell of ****, makes those bl00dy doors have sensors and get rid a lot of 2 seats with more tables?

Vomits don't have corridor connection so that's ****ed on yer bonfire before you've lit it up.

No, but i said a major refurb, which would include this... :roll:

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

No, but i said a major refurb, which would include this... :roll:

:roll: Where in your post did you say that?

I know, but I find that people saying that voyagers arent suitable in their current state arent suitable for XC are right, but saying they arent suitable full stop is wrong, as they can be perfectley good trains if they were all doubled,

I noticed you made in their current state in bold, but I assumed that current state was a 4/5 car formation. You mentioned nothing about refurb in that particular post which I was quoting


"as they can be perfectly good trains if they were all doubled,"

Which they can't for the reasons I have already posted

 

[MCR247]

:roll: Where in your post did you say that?


I noticed you made in their current state in bold, but I assumed that current state was a 4/5 car formation. You mentioned nothing about refurb in that particular post which I was quoting


"as they can be perfectly good trains if they were all doubled,"

Which they can't for the reasons I have already posted

Yes, because i was replying to someone, and it would be pointless copy & pasting the previous post

 

[ukrob]

I think many people are missing one of the major points of why HSTs would be suitable for the charter (and spot hire) market - their low RA of 5 against 6 or 7 for a class 47 and 8 for a class 67. Therefore lower TAC's.

 

[Phoenix]

I totally disagree with all 4 of your points. Mainly 2/3 & 4.

Clean look:
Do you mean interior or exterior? As if it's exterior it really has nothing to do with how the train 'performs' in day to day service. Interior, I disagree - I believe they are the completely rancid for cleanliness inside and I assume you like the smell of excrements whilst you purchase your food from a trolley whilst doing the longest train route in the UK?

Great Seating:
The seating is crap, there is not enough tables at all and the seats are uncomfy and when you pull down the tray from the seat infront of you (Because you haven't got a table) it is filthy, and the paint is chipped and it's generally horrible

Practicality:
They would be practical on a route like Cardiff - Popmey but not key long routes across the UK. They're not practical as they don't have enough tables or seats for that matter, 4 or 5 cars isn't enough and even when you double up you have the problem of no corridor connections.

Fair enough opinions are never usually agreed upon so Ill fight my corner.
I don't know how you can't agree they look clean inside because I have been on a few hst's and well there a damn sight better than the EMT interiors I mean yes they are good old and comfortable but they lack compared to the XC lot.
And well sorry but if someone decides to take a dump in a toilet then it is going to smell isn't it I mean the other day someone did in my home toilet and it smelt for a while after.

As for practicality well you do know they not every single seat on every train that goes intercity has to have a table as simply you lose the capacity and that was the purpose of the XC lot not for sheer luxury or to please every HST conisure out there but To take people from A to B abit faster and carry more people than some of the crap they normally use.

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Fair enough opinions are never usually agreed upon so Ill fight my corner.
I don't know how you can't agree they look clean inside because I have been on a few hst's and well there a damn sight better than the EMT interiors I mean yes they are good old and comfortable but they lack compared to the XC lot.
And well sorry but if someone decides to take a dump in a toilet then it is going to smell isn't it I mean the other day someone did in my home toilet and it smelt for a while after.

As for practicality well you do know they not every single seat on every train that goes intercity has to have a table as simply you lose the capacity and that was the purpose of the XC lot not for sheer luxury or to please every HST conisure out there but To take people from A to B abit faster and carry more people than some of the crap they normally use.

Hang on a second here, Your second sentence has confused me, I was on about the Voyagers are **** after re-furb? Are you not? I'm kinda confused here!

 

[Geezertronic]

And well sorry but if someone decides to take a dump in a toilet then it is going to smell isn't it I mean the other day someone did in my home toilet and it smelt for a while after

I am still laughing at this post

 

[WillPS]

8 Vomits are a complete farce. Two Train Managers, 2 RSMs, 2 First Class Hosts...

8 HST: 1 Train Manager, 1 RSM, 1 Customer host. Lets not mention the fact that an HST is cheaper to run as it doesn't have 8 hilariously overpowered engines rumbling away for hours on end.

I'm sure if the money was there the cabs could be taken out and a permanent corridor put in. That way you could go back down to 3 staff... Voyagers dont run 4 engines in a normal set anyway do they, so I doubt you'd find 8 engines running on a coupled set.

My suspicion is these will get replaced with HSTs and/or IEPs in the mid-term. They could then be moved on to other operators to replace Sprinters or (if they've any left, heaven forbid) Pacers.

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Voyagers dont run 4 engines in a normal set anyway do they

Yes they do.... Unless one or more engines is buggered.

 

[The Planner]

I'm sure if the money was there the cabs could be taken out and a permanent corridor put in. That way you could go back down to 3 staff... Voyagers dont run 4 engines in a normal set anyway do they, so I doubt you'd find 8 engines running on a coupled set.

Why on earth would you spend millions doing that to save on three staff ??

 

[asylumxl]

It doesn't require millions. They could reconfigure their sets. EMT did it with their 222s.

 

[ukrob]

It doesn't require millions. They could reconfigure their sets. EMT did it with their 222s.

Oh come on now, that is hardly the same.

 

[MCR247]

It doesn't require millions. They could reconfigure their sets. EMT did it with their 222s.

EMT took one carrige and put it in a different set, where as you are talking about rebuilding the nose and putting a corridor connection in. Which then also may mean that they have to get completely new noses if Branson dosent want them to be rebuilt with that nose.