HST's-Past, Present or Future?

[GNERman]

HST's.

Built between 1976 and 1982
26-32 years old

Some have already been replaced from their primary routes by Voyagers.
Could more of this happen in the near future?

A few years back there were many HST's stored due to lack of work after the Virgin Cross Country run down and Midland Mainline Project Rio stop and these were stored at various locations.

Now every Power Car is in use with NXEC, GC, FGW, EMT, XC and NR.
Most have been re-engined with the new MTU engine.
GC's non re-engined sets are now doing well after a rough start.

Many of you will know that the new HST designs are already coming through for high speed lines across Britain and electrificationj will take its toll on the HST's.

This would mainly be the Great Western Line which is due to get electrified this would mean that many of FGW's HST sets would be ousted from the lines.

The new HST designs could also mean NXEC's sets going and even GC's sets aren't in the promise as they will probably be replaced by the Polaris DMU's from China.

What of the other user's? EMt look like they will keep theirs for times to come as many have been re-engined and NR probably won't buy new stock to replace theirs.

What do you think? Write your comments below.

 

[Phoenix]

HST's.

Built between 1976 and 1982
26-32 years old

Some have already been replaced from their primary routes by Voyagers.
Could more of this happen in the near future?

A few years back there were many HST's stored due to lack of work after the Virgin Cross Country run down and Midland Mainline Project Rio stop and these were stored at various locations.

Now every Power Car is in use with NXEC, GC, FGW, EMT and NR.
Most have been re-engined with the new MTU engine.
GC's non re-engined sets are now doing well after a rough start.

Many of you will know that the new HST designs are already coming through for high speed lines across Britain and electrificationj will take its toll on the HST's.

This would mainly be the Great Western Line which is due to get electrified this would mean that many of FGW's HST sets would be ousted from the lines.

The new HST designs could also mean NXEC's sets going and even GC's sets aren't in the promise as they will probably be replaced by the Polaris DMU's from China.

What of the other user's? EMt look like they will keep theirs for times to come as many have been re-engined and NR probably won't buy new stock to replace theirs.

What do you think? Write your comments below.

Honestly in the future I have a feeling that the HST's will be a perfect choice for

1.various open access companies.
2.Charter companies.
3 Additional peak service stock.

Basically with a HST with it's MK 3's you can make many modifications and you could end up with a pullman HST set for the VSOE ect.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

I think that the HST's will remain in use for the next 10 years at least, after which many will probably sold overseas just like the 87's were exported over to Bulgaria, however, I would'nt be suprised to some preserved and used by various charter companies on mainline specials.

 

[TEW]

Well XC Have just re introduced HSTs after there withdrawal, they certainly are going to around for a long time yet.

 

[mrcheek]

Many attempts have been made to replace HSTs.
First, the APT, which was a failure.
Then, Virgin tried to replace them with Voyagers. and now Arriva is bringing back the HSTs.
FGW were given 185s to replace some HSTs, but now the 185s are gone and the HSTs are back.

HSTs are here forever! They may be old, but theyve been refurbished and repaired so many timers, that there probably isnt a single component of them that has survived the full 30 years. Essentially, they are new trains. Like Trigger's broom in Only Fools and Horses.

HSTs are fast, popular, and reliable (well, in comparison to other stock they are anyway). I personally hope and expect that they will be with us for some time to come...

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

I think that the HST's will remain in use for the next 10 years at least, after which many will probably sold overseas just like the 87's were exported over to Bulgaria, however, I would'nt be suprised to some preserved and used by various charter companies on mainline specials.

Exactly, the 125Group aims are to Preserve a Full HST Set.

 

[EE Type 3]

Exactly, the 125Group aims are to Preserve a Full HST Set.

When say full, are we talking about an 8 coach train (4 TSOs, a TFRB, and 3 TFOs) with two powercars?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

When say full, are we talking about an 8 coach train (4 TSOs, a TFRB, and 3 TFOs) with two powercars?

"Such rolling stock shall include one or more power cars, as near as possible to original operational configuration"
From the Aims Section on the site (125group.org.uk)

BTW, HST Vehicles are not Opens, TS' and TF'.

 

[EE Type 3]

"Such rolling stock shall include one or more power cars, as near as possible to original operational configuration"
From the Aims Section on the site (125group.org.uk)

BTW, HST Vehicles are not Opens, TS' and TF'.

Fair enough.

Phoenix's idea of a Northern Belle HST sounds very good.

 

[GNERman]

with the IEp a lot will be surplus to requirements on EC and GW and possibly MML...

 

[Daimler]

I'm quite puzzled by the way people think HSTs will be popular for charter operators and spot-hire. I mean, yes, they can do 125 mph, but surely a loco with some Mk3 coaches is more versatile - in terms of train lengths, and in terms of locomotives needed, for that matter.

I do hope to see open access operators take on more in time - though again, it'd be a bit of a waste on a route like WSMR's! I'd also hope to see AXC take on some more as more become available in time (though I guess they'll eventually get SETs too) - they're a far more appropriate train for cross country services than four-car voyagers, which would be useful trains elsewhere.

As for going abroad, I'm not so sure - most overseas operators are very much gearing themselves towards electrified railways, hence the popularity of 87s. 30-odd (maybe 40-odd) year old diesel trains I doubt would be as attractive - especially considering the Mk3s are built to UK loading gauge.

 

[asylumxl]

First, the APT, which was a failure.

A failure?!

Not really. Politics killed of the APT, there was nothing essentially wrong with it.

Furthermore the APT was developed alongside the HST, not as a replacement. Even looking at the dates shows that.

 

[generalvegitable]

I think that the APT was to be an electric version (shame that it was scrapped it would probably still be operational today if it wasn't for politics)

 

[GNERman]

1 - the apt - e is at the railway age, crewe and another coach is at shilden
2 - what of the apt - p?

 

[2030720310]

FGW were given 185s to replace some HSTs, but now the 185s are gone and the HSTs are back.

sorry, don't you mean 180s?

 

[Techniquest]

I should hope so!

Won't be many more years until the first HST withdrawals, however word is that it'll be power cars fitted currently with VP185s or Valentas which get chosen by the 125 Group when the time comes.

 

[43021HST]

I would say that even when the western mainline is being electrified they would still have HST sets going to places like Birmingham or Cornwall. They would still be around for quite some time I reckon.

 

[2030720310]

I should hope so!

Won't be many more years until the first HST withdrawals, however word is that it'll be power cars fitted currently with VP185s or Valentas which get chosen by the 125 Group when the time comes.

so would that be 43089?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

so would that be 43089?

No, If you read his post it would be PCs fitted with VPs or Valentas. However that's just word on the Street.

 

[ukrob]

I'm quite puzzled by the way people think HSTs will be popular for charter operators and spot-hire. I mean, yes, they can do 125 mph, but surely a loco with some Mk3 coaches is more versatile - in terms of train lengths, and in terms of locomotives needed, for that matter.

Because they have an RA of 5 as opposed to 7 for a 66, 8 for a 67 etc.

 

[Daimler]

Because they have an RA of 5 as opposed to 7 for a 66, 8 for a 67 etc.

True, but I don't really see a huge demand for spot-hire of trains on lightly-laid branch lines.

 

[ukrob]

True, but I don't really see a huge demand for spot-hire of trains on lightly-laid branch lines.

Neither do I, but who said anything about lightly laid branch lines? Lower RA is better all around.

 

[Techniquest]

No, If you read his post it would be PCs fitted with VPs or Valentas. However that's just word on the Street.

Well yeah, although it was hinted that this would be the case in a certain publication both yourself and I (as well as a fair few other thousand people!) are more than familiar with Scott, all be it some time ago now.

Mainly because the engine room has to be modified to fit in the alternator when attached to an MTU, due to the larger engine, if I recall the relevant text correctly.

Still, it is pretty much all word-on-the-street until the mainline operators have replacements for the HSTs and preservation begins on a much bigger scale. Not much point frothing over it yet, still a long way to go!

 

[anthony263]

wouldnt mind seing some HST'S preserved although i am guesing that a lot could end up at crosscountry once they are replaced by the IEP's which i think is a waste of money and it i have seen some alternative proposals which would have been cheaper.

anyway i will be glad if the HST'S go to crosscountry to dsiplace some of the voyagers which in my opinion are certainly not suitbale for some long distance services

 

[MCR247]

anyway i will be glad if the HST'S go to crosscountry to dsiplace some of the voyagers which in my opinion are certainly not suitbale for some long distance services

vomiters are suitable for them, once they're refurbed and doubled up in service

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

vomiters are suitable for them, once they're refurbed and doubled up in service

No they're not. They're even worse once refurbed! No flamin' buffet!

 

[MCR247]

No they're not. They're even worse once refurbed! No flamin' buffet!

no i didnt mean XC refurb, but if they stil had the shop, but had a MAJOR refurb

 

[Techniquest]

No they're not. They're even worse once refurbed! No flamin' buffet!

Thoroughly agreed, Voyagers are NOT suitable for AXC!!!

 

[CJ]

In my opinion, i think most of the HSTs from FGW/NXEC should go to CrossCountry, which they could use to boost capicity on the Plymouth-Edinburgh route and possibly the Bournemouth-Manchester Piccadilly route as that too has been very busy route (especially with a 4 car voyager!) hock:

The 5 car Voyagers leftover could then replace turbostars and some of the 4 car Voyagers to other TOCs.

 

[MCR247]

I think, that HSTs should go to XC, but not to replace voyagers, but to strengthen them, because there wouldnt be a problem with a anti-XC refurb 8/9 voyager or HST on EVERY* train on the core route(s)

*Diagramed