HST traction question

[NoviceJames]

Hi,

Apologises for the possibly repeated question.

After looking online, it looks like the Class 43 HST has a 'BO-BO' wheel set arrangement, which is described as "Two bogies or wheel assemblies under the unit. Each bogie has two powered axles individually driven by traction motors"

So with 2 bogies per power car, are there 2 engines per power car?
Also with that in mind, I believe both power cars provide traction in top and tail formation, so are there 4 engines providing traction in total?

Thanks for the replies!

 

[D365]

Class 43s are fitted with MTU 4000 series engines, with the exception of the EMTs (VP185) and the prototype.

One engine per power car feeds the four Brush or GEC traction motors.

 

[NoviceJames]

Class 43s are fitted with MTU 4000 series engines, with the exception of the EMTs (VP185) and the prototype.

One engine per power car feeds the four Brush or GEC traction motors.

Ahh, that makes perfect sense, thanks.

I was just confused with the term of traction motors and engines.
After looking at the Class 91's, as they are electric, they only require the traction motors.
Whereas with the HST they require the diesel engine, alternator and the traction motors you described.

 

[randyrippley]

the only British locomotives with two diesel power plants were

class 17 "Clayton" - the centre cab meant there wasn't room for one big diesel, so instead two small ones were used.
class 41/42/43/52 "Warship" and "Western" diesel-hydraulics. In these, each of the two diesels drove one of the two bogies via a mechanical linkage and automatic gearbox. Two diesels because they were based on german designs, and german technology post-war had developed from the small devices used in tanks and aircraft - not big maritime diesels, unlike UK designs.
class 55 "Deltic" - two high speed diesels each with its own electrical generator, both providing power to both bogies as required

 

[randyrippley]

Note - the class 43 Warships are not the same as the class 43 HST power cars

 

[43096]

the only British locomotives with two diesel power plants were

class 17 "Clayton" - the centre cab meant there wasn't room for one big diesel, so instead two small ones were used.
class 41/42/43/52 "Warship" and "Western" diesel-hydraulics. In these, each of the two diesels drove one of the two bogies via a mechanical linkage and automatic gearbox. Two diesels because they were based on german designs, and german technology post-war had developed from the small devices used in tanks and aircraft - not big maritime diesels, unlike UK designs.
class 55 "Deltic" - two high speed diesels each with its own electrical generator, both providing power to both bogies as required

You've missed "Falcon" (later Class 53) and, much more recently, the Loram conversion for Network Rail of 73951/2 which have two QSK 19 engines.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Hi,

Apologises for the possibly repeated question.

After looking online, it looks like the Class 43 HST has a 'BO-BO' wheel set arrangement, which is described as "Two bogies or wheel assemblies under the unit. Each bogie has two powered axles individually driven by traction motors"

So with 2 bogies per power car, are there 2 engines per power car?
Also with that in mind, I believe both power cars provide traction in top and tail formation, so are there 4 engines providing traction in total?

Thanks for the replies!

Each power car has one engine , other posters have talked about the different types of engine fitted either the original Paxman Valentas or the VP185 or MTU fitted as part of life extension work

This engine drives a big alternator / generator which then sends electricity to each of the four traction motors ( one per axle) in that power car ... the only link between the two power cars is that the feed the 'hotel' power for the carriages and the control signals for each seperate powercar . if the engine is stopped in one powercar the train can continue but it is towing that switched off power car as the running powercar onl provides electricity to the traction motors at it's end ...

 

[randyrippley]

You've missed "Falcon" (later Class 53) and, much more recently, the Loram conversion for Network Rail of 73951/2 which have two QSK 19 engines.

Agreed, you're right
I forgot those oddballs
I deliberately ignored the Fell loco as well as being not really relevant

 

[Mugby]

You could add the Fell Diesel Mechanical locomotive, 10100.

I think that probably held the record for the number of engines contained in one loco!

 

[Cowley]

You could add the Fell Diesel Mechanical locomotive, 10100.

I think that probably held the record for the number of engines contained in one loco!

Ha yes. What an absolutely ridiculous machine! As far as I know it had 6 engines (not too much to go wrong then?) of which four powered the loco and two powered the superchargers I think?
It was carried on a massive 4-8-4 chassis and was apparently able to reach about 80mph.
It must have been quite a sight when travelling at speed...

 

[Billy A]

You could add the Fell Diesel Mechanical locomotive, 10100.

I think that probably held the record for the number of engines contained in one loco!

Just Googled, never having heard of. Must have been just about the weirdest diesel ever!
Mind you, Bombardier do a four engine one, albeit without the eccentricities.

 

[43096]

I deliberately ignored the Fell loco as well as being not really relevant

And as you said two engines and it had somewhat more than that, I ignored it as well!

 

[100andthirty]

The forthcoming Stadler hybrid trains for AGA will have four diesel engines in one short vehicle on the 4-car trains (only two on the 3-car trains)

 

[D365]

After looking at the Class 91's, as they are electric, they only require the traction motors.

Well there’s the transformer, inverter, motor alternator...

 

[birchesgreen]

Depends what you mean by "engine", in a diesel-electric the traction motors are the "engines" that provide the traction, the diesel engine (and assorted bits) just provides them with juice.

 

[delt1c]

What about the 27/2, they had 2 engines a Deutz to provide ETH and the Sulzer for traction

 

[43096]

Depends what you mean by "engine", in a diesel-electric the traction motors are the "engines" that provide the traction, the diesel engine (and assorted bits) just provides them with juice.

No they are not. The engine is the engine and traction motors are traction motors. Not difficult really.

 

[100andthirty]

Ha yes. What an absolutely ridiculous machine! As far as I know it had 6 engines (not too much to go wrong then?) of which four powered the loco and two powered the superchargers I think?
It was carried on a massive 4-8-4 chassis and was apparently able to reach about 80mph.
It must have been quite a sight when travelling at speed...

It must have seemed like a good idea at the time!

 

[Kneedown]

This engine drives a big alternator / generator which then sends electricity to each of the four traction motors ( one per axle) in that power car.

Just to add, that the ac current produced by the main alternator goes to the main rectifier which converts it to dc. Then it goes to the traction motors.