HST Derailment

[attics26]

hardly just an EMT problem - everyone who uses the depot affected - East Coast stabling sets at hull bradford donny york and darlo overnight for instance

 

[MCR247]

And with the fatality at Duffield last night, EMT are not only missing 2 HST sets but a 7 car 222 as well.

What fatality at Duffield?

 

[Wayfarer Sam]

There is not really a lot to explain. It was last night. 222006 if memory serves me.

 

[Wyvern]

Didn't they have a 222 out of service as well following an accident?

 

[SWT Driver]

Whilst we're on about derailments what got derailed at Micklefield?

 

[royaloak]

Whats the UK got to do with it, this is an EMT problem, they did well this morning though only lost the 2 trips to St Pancras and one started at Nottingham, nothing the rest of the day.
EMT do have plenty of spare coaches so could possibly get both back in use fairly quickly using these, only really 1 power-car and maybe 3 coaches damaged so not huge problems, although could possibly make 1 good set out of the 2

Not true at all The 19:00 service to Corby was delayed due to problems creating the set. I can only assume this train was booked to operate this service.

So none of what I wrote is true, 1C13 and 1C15 were not cancelled and 1B23 did not start at Nottingham at 0828!
Could you also enlighten me about "creating the set" I assume in London (didnt know they had a maintenance depot in London), and inform me about the correct information as you obviously know a lot more than I do.
Oh 1M66 1900 St Pancras to Corby left 3 minutes late, so how was that anything to do with creating the set, and just for completeness it arrived at Corby 12 minutes late at 2025.

 

[fgwrich]

The two MML Sets were for 5C11 04:09 NL to Sheffield and 5C13 04:17 NL to Sheffield. It Appears that 43059 on 5C13 went side into buffet FO 41113 sat at 45 degrees. 43043 was leading on the set for 5C11 derailed pointing towards mainlines. The incident happened at approx 04:00 this morning

Well...If they want a replacement Buffet...Almost perfect timing as FGWs few remaining Barbie Buffets are soon to be due off lease after the Mini Buffet program is complete...and im looking foward to there next whereabouts...But youll have to wait for that im afraid...


Either way...Looks like a right c*ck up by depot staff to casue that...

 

[DB]

Actually, the buffet situation is even more straightforward if they do need a replacement.

When two sets were transferred to Crosscountry 18 months or so ago, they didn't want the two buffet cars (they use a different type of catering vehicle) and these, so far as I'm aware, are stored at Long Marston and still in MML livery, so they will match the existing livery.

If I recall correctly, EMT have spare standard carriages but no buffet cars, so unless the damaged one can be repaired easily they might well have to get one of those from Long Marston.

A bit of Googling has found a photo of the two vehicles at Long Marston: http://steve278.fotopic.net/p51068314.html

 

[Daimler]

Well...If they want a replacement Buffet...Almost perfect timing as FGWs few remaining Barbie Buffets are soon to be due off lease after the Mini Buffet program is complete...and im looking foward to there next whereabouts...But youll have to wait for that im afraid...


Either way...Looks like a right c*ck up by depot staff to casue that...

I'm rather confused by the FGW buffet situation - will we end up with all HSTs having a buffet of some sort? If so, are the Mini Buffets being deployed on the Oxford line, leaving the big ones for the other routes?

 

[devon_metro]

I'm rather confused by the FGW buffet situation - will we end up with all HSTs having a buffet of some sort? If so, are the Mini Buffets being deployed on the Oxford line, leaving the big ones for the other routes?

In a sense, yes. However Paddington - Oxford trains do not have buffet services.

 

[DB]

I'm rather confused by the FGW buffet situation - will we end up with all HSTs having a buffet of some sort? If so, are the Mini Buffets being deployed on the Oxford line, leaving the big ones for the other routes?

Not sure of the routes, but some of the sets are having the buffet car removed (ie. reducing them to 7 carriages) and a smaller shop installed in the end of one of the TSs, which involves removing a toilet, luggage stack and bay of seats and blocking one full-size passenger window. I've seen a picture of the inside of one and it's similar to the shop on a 180 or Voyager.

This will mean that all FGW HSTs have a buffet / shop of some sort. I think this is an excellent decision - the HSTs I travel on most are the Crosscountry ones, and a trolley in an 8-carriage train is simply not adequate, particularly if you're travelling a long way.

 

[royaloak]

EMT spare coaches-
FO- 41063, 41078, 41113.
TFRB- 40729.
TSO- 42121, 42125, 42324,
TGS- 44071
And dont forget NL03 (the "hot spare") is only formed of 6 coaches, no buffet and 1 TSO missing, so should be able to form the rakes back up reasonably quickly.

 

[Wyvern]

What fatality at Duffield?

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/news/Rail-station-death-victim-named/article-1524463-detail/article.html

 

[Daimler]

Not sure of the routes, but some of the sets are having the buffet car removed (ie. reducing them to 7 carriages) and a smaller shop installed in the end of one of the TSs, which involves removing a toilet, luggage stack and bay of seats and blocking one full-size passenger window. I've seen a picture of the inside of one and it's similar to the shop on a 180 or Voyager.

Ah, I wondered why I'd seen some standard class coaches with the first class stripe beginning near a blocked-off window kind of thing at the end of the coach!

In a sense, yes. However Paddington - Oxford trains do not have buffet services.

What is the point of this new Mini-Buffet then - why aren't they just keeping the big one for all of their trains? Is it simply to reduce the number of coaches?

Seems a bit odd to have two slightly different fleets! I'd assumed the Mini-Buffet would be to provide some sort of catering service on their short distance trains.

 

[DB]

What is the point of this new Mini-Buffet then - why aren't they just keeping the big one for all of their trains? Is it simply to reduce the number of coaches?

Apparently the economics of their franchise bid was based on reducing some sets to 7 carriages. They originally intended to do this using trolleys, but this proved impractical and unpopular with travellers so they decided to install the shop on the 7-carriage trains.

Pity Crosscountry can't be persuaded to to the same - the trolleys on their HSTs are hopeless for long journeys, and the catering coach (TCC - Trailer Composite Catering) is a really bad design. It's basically mostly first class, with a small kitchen / trolley store and 10 second-class seats. The second class seats are open to the kitchen area, so it feels like you're sitting in the staff working area.

 

[devon_metro]

Ah, I wondered why I'd seen some standard class coaches with the first class stripe beginning near a blocked-off window kind of thing at the end of the coach!



What is the point of this new Mini-Buffet then - why aren't they just keeping the big one for all of their trains? Is it simply to reduce the number of coaches?

Seems a bit odd to have two slightly different fleets! I'd assumed the Mini-Buffet would be to provide some sort of catering service on their short distance trains.

Weight savings, mini buffets are also destined for Paddington - Bristol services and can provide the same service as the standard Express Cafe buffet service

 

[fgwrich]

Apparently the economics of their franchise bid was based on reducing some sets to 7 carriages. They originally intended to do this using trolleys, but this proved impractical and unpopular with travellers so they decided to install the shop on the 7-carriage trains.

Pity Crosscountry can't be persuaded to to the same - the trolleys on their HSTs are hopeless for long journeys, and the catering coach (TCC - Trailer Composite Catering) is a really bad design. It's basically mostly first class, with a small kitchen / trolley store and 10 second-class seats. The second class seats are open to the kitchen area, so it feels like you're sitting in the staff working area.

Not Quite...As the Mini Buffet replaces the Buffet Car...Hence why the sets are still 2+8 and the Mini Buffet remains as Coach F...

http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/p59795485.html

Also...i wouldnt desribe it more as a shop than a buffet...because the shop is more like Virgins which ou pick stuff up and take to the counter...the MINI Buffet is as the name suggests...a buffet

Heres some not so perfect shots i took on my phone...

Also...That TRB...are you sure its still there as that picture was taken on the long marston open day in 2008...

http://steve278.fotopic.net/p51068314.html

As for Cross Country...Sureley you cant expect them to look at the FGW idea...Thatd be breacking the Cross Country Logic:roll:...

 

[asylumxl]

So none of what I wrote is true, 1C13 and 1C15 were not cancelled and 1B23 did not start at Nottingham at 0828!
Could you also enlighten me about "creating the set" I assume in London (didnt know they had a maintenance depot in London), and inform me about the correct information as you obviously know a lot more than I do.
Oh 1M66 1900 St Pancras to Corby left 3 minutes late, so how was that anything to do with creating the set, and just for completeness it arrived at Corby 12 minutes late at 2025.

Why the tone? I'm only relaying what EMT staff were telling passengers at St Pancras waiting for the service. For what It's worth it only arrived in SPX at 16 57. EMT seem to have a turn around of HST sets of about 20-30 minutes.

It seemed a reasonable excuse at the time given that you'd think the damaged coaches would have meant others needed to be sourced and ECS moves would have to be altered.

 

[DB]

Not Quite...As the Mini Buffet replaces the Buffet Car...Hence why the sets are still 2+8 and the Mini Buffet remains as Coach F...

It says in both an article in the OneTwoFive magazine and the 2009 issue of Locomotives and Coaching Stock that the intention was for the converted carriages to form part of 2+7 sets - presumably they changed the plans subsequently?

Also...That TRB...are you sure its still there as that picture was taken on the long marston open day in 2008...

There are two of them - 40723 and 40732. I've not found any reference to them being back in use, and in Locomotives & Coaching Stock 2009 they are both listed as off-lease and stored at Long Marston. Given that there are more buffet cars (of various types) than required I think it's reasonable to assume that they are still there.

 

[fgwrich]

It says in both an article in the OneTwoFive magazine and the 2009 issue of Locomotives and Coaching Stock that the intention was for the converted carriages to form part of 2+7 sets - presumably they changed the plans subsequently?...

I belive they have...as the last set with mini buffet i worked on was the usal PC,A,B,C,D,E,F-Mini Buffet, G,H PC...

As for the Ex mml Mk3s...Ah ok..

 

[devon_metro]

Sets with mini buffets will be 2+7. Coach E is the seating in the TSB, with coach F being labelled at the buffet end.

There is however one TSB set with an extra TS.

 

[43021HST]

Not sure if its been posted on here yet but there has been a derailment and collision involving two ECS HST sets at the depot at Neville Hill

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/LEED/TH0_17112009405L1_3690.jpg

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/LEED/TH0_17112009515L1_3618.jpg

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/LEED/TH0_17112009205L1_3676.jpg

Poor HST I hope they dont get withdrawn, it doesnt look to bad.

 

[Old Timer]

I remember a collision b/t a HST and a Class 47 on a dept in the Western Region back in the 70's, indeed I believe it was the first.

Now people had bee a little concerned at the ability of the glass fibre nose cone to withstand an impact.

THe 47 was withdrawn from traffic and sent to works for major repairs, whilst the HST power car received a new nose cone and was back in service within a day or so.

 

[starrymarkb]

Poor HST I hope they dont get withdrawn, it doesnt look to bad.

Suspect the Buffet car will be withdrawn, there are enough sitting idle at the moment for it to be easier to unstore one then repair the bent one. Especially when the HSTs will be withdrawn in about 5 years time.

 

[royaloak]

Why the tone.

Because of the way you said "not true at all", when in fact it was ALL true because these were the only CANCELLATIONS, which is what I was talking about, but its okay next time I get any information I will keep it to myself!

 

[asylumxl]

Because of the way you said "not true at all", when in fact it was ALL true because these were the only CANCELLATIONS, which is what I was talking about, but its okay next time I get any information I will keep it to myself!

Well I apologise for my wording. Your posts regarding cancellations weren't what I quoted though.

You said "nothing the rest of the day". I was simply saying that the staff at St Pancras were blaming late arrival of the ECS for the 1700 on this derailment.

While this may not be true, it's what they claimed was the cause.

 

[142094]

Bit of a balls up there, glad I'm not doing the Leeds commute this week. IIRC there isn't (or is only one) exit at the east end of the depot, so Northern must have had to work a bit harder to get the trains out.

 

[brompton rail]

Leeds back to normal today - most trains into/out of Leeds on time. No more diversions via Castleford to York (and Selby it seems).

 

[142094]

Good news as I'm going there tomorrow.

 

[Crossforth]

Saturday for me, train from CRG to LDS return
I'm one of the closest people to it and I haven't seen it yet