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HS2 Old Oak Common

hwl

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Lets hope they dont encounter the same issues that has bedeviled the Oxford bridge lowering to accommodation double deck buses.
The utilities situation under the road is bad (e.g. DNO HV cables in the "Do not disturb" state) but everything is well documented and there is a realistic plan.

Unlike Oxford, the Luftwaffe dug up the road in 1940s resulting in some of the more southerly bridge decks needing to be replaced after they were lifted in the air and bent on landing and all the utilities under the road needing to be replaced.
 
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gravitystorm

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I found the obviously AI-narrated official video a bit lightweight. There's a much better Green Signals video now available:


It contains a site visit, a couple of decent short interviews, and I feel gives a much better impression of the scale of the station than the official comms video.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I found the obviously AI-narrated official video a bit lightweight. There's a much better Green Signals video now available:


It contains a site visit, a couple of decent short interviews, and I feel gives a much better impression of the scale of the station than the official comms video.
Its just plain bonkers given the progress that is being made here that HS2 Ltd are only targeting 2036 for start of services.
 

Benjwri

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Its just plain bonkers given the progress that is being made here that HS2 Ltd are only targeting 2036 for start of services.
You can make all the progress you want on one station, but if there isn't a railway to run on or another station in Birmingham you're not going to get much value from opening it.
 

BrianW

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Its just plain bonkers given the progress that is being made here that HS2 Ltd are only targeting 2036 for start of services.
You can make all the progress you want on one station, but if there isn't a railway to run on or another station in Birmingham you're not going to get much value from opening it.
If the 'national cake' (taxes plus borrowing) is only so much, then after Defence, the NHS, Education, etc etc there's only so much left for Transport, INCLUDING roads, rail (including HS2) ... 'Cash is king'- IIRC Rachel Reeves said early on 'If we haven't got it we can't spend it', and if we overspend we have to cut back and/or take longer. That's what the HS2 'reset' is about. AND it looks like rail is going to need to divert funding to more on embankments etc relating to derailments-'events, dear boy' as PM Harold Macmillan put it.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I went into Euston station yesterday and they seem to be progressing HS2 works from Euston to OOC nicely. I assume that Old Oak Common works will progress from both ends.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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If the 'national cake' (taxes plus borrowing) is only so much, then after Defence, the NHS, Education, etc etc there's only so much left for Transport, INCLUDING roads, rail (including HS2) ... 'Cash is king'- IIRC Rachel Reeves said early on 'If we haven't got it we can't spend it', and if we overspend we have to cut back and/or take longer. That's what the HS2 'reset' is about. AND it looks like rail is going to need to divert funding to more on embankments etc relating to derailments-'events, dear boy' as PM Harold Macmillan put it.
Yes but its not sound finances for a project. They've expended c45B already that is being financed annually at at least 4% probably nearer 5% so its already costing c900m pa on interest charges alone that are being added to the bill. Then you have all the railway system and rolling stock contracts let which are in delay so there will be cost for prolongation of those contracts. So well over a billion/year is being added to the bill. Old Oak Common is the most complicated part of the project and its progress is very positive such that 2030 doesn't look beyond reach from here yet it looks like it will only be a shell then waiting for other parts of the project which were less complicated to catch up.
 

Snow1964

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You can make all the progress you want on one station, but if there isn't a railway to run on or another station in Birmingham you're not going to get much value from opening it.
The surface part is due to open 2029 from memory (I think it was 2028, but has slipped), and don't really want big machinery still working there doing major construction. Bit of surface finishing is not a problem, but will want all the cranes and roof finished and all escalators etc delivered and in situ (even if not commissioned) because won't want to take things through the open to public bit.
 

stuu

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It really isn't, the first GWML blockade isn't until 2029, there's no chance of it being functional before 2031. It's possible everything will be finished bar the actual tracks before then
 

mr_moo

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First blockade is indeed Christmas 2029, second is several years later. Station opening wont be till mid 2030s.

Part of the plan is that the tracks are moved Northwards in the first blockade, clearing space for the construction of the rest of the bridges and the Southernmost station platforms and lots of other things, which will then happen before the second major reconfiguration of the tracks at 'config stage 2', where the final alignment is commissioned through all 8 platforms and for the turnback sidings.
 

JamesT

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OOC might be progressing well, but they haven't even started on Birmingham International yet have they? Bar a few groundworks and investigations?
They've spent 5 years moving roads around for Interchange and have build at least one bridge over where the station will be. But the station itself will be much simpler than the others, it's platforms at ground level rather than inside a box with tunnels like OOC or up in the air like Curzon Street.
 

Snow1964

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First blockade is indeed Christmas 2029, second is several years later. Station opening wont be till mid 2030s.
3.5 years away seems very late, I am sure 3 years ago it was going to be 2026 or 2027

Part of the plan is that the tracks are moved Northwards in the first blockade, clearing space for the construction of the rest of the bridges and the Southernmost station platforms and lots of other things, which will then happen before the second major reconfiguration of the tracks at 'config stage 2', where the final alignment is commissioned through all 8 platforms and for the turnback sidings.
If the plan is to slew temporarily into some of the new platforms, why are they apparently going to be building a platform edge alongside the live railway, so has to be done at night through until July 2027


Even if it was other side of an island, why not wait until the trains are rerouted before building those last 3 platforms.

Sort of suggests the schedule has been altered and not sequenced in parts anymore .

Regarding the bridges, it seems all the preparation work for Central line bridges finish 18th December per attached. That would suggest the deck beams could be lifted in anytime from Christmas

https://www.hs2.org.uk/work-items/saturday-working-central-line-bridge-enabling-works/
 

Geogregor

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3.5 years away seems very late, I am sure 3 years ago it was going to be 2026 or 2027

The new catch phrase is "blockade not before 2029". So it looks like they are not even confident about that date.

It was definitely planned at least year or two earlier.

Now I know it is large station to build but effectively it is just a big box for the high speed platforms and a few conventional surface platforms. How they need well over a decade to build it is beyond me.

As far as I remember Stratford International didn't take anywhere near that long. Also box in the ground with tunnels on both ends. What has changed since then which made construction so much longer?
 

dosxuk

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Now I know it is large station to build but effectively it is just a big box for the high speed platforms and a few conventional surface platforms. How they need well over a decade to build it is beyond me.

They don't. But the purse-string-holders have decided the best way to fund the works is to do it slowly over a long period - so while construction wise they could do it much much faster, budget wise they can't.
 

MarlowDonkey

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As far as I remember Stratford International didn't take anywhere near that long. Also box in the ground with tunnels on both ends. What has changed since then which made construction so much longer?
One difference is that the money to pay for the work is being rationed by year. The other is that they aren't trying to build it across a busy operational railway.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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One difference is that the money to pay for the work is being rationed by year.
The moneys not being rationed its that what the treasury budgeted for is no longer sufficient partly due to inflation partly due to inefficient execution by HS2 in some areas.
The other is that they aren't trying to build it across a busy operational railway.
Theyve come up with a pretty good plan that sees the bulk of the surface station built in the non operational space. Also once the lines are slewed the station isnt in use so they only need to maintain the four lines initially so they arent that impeded construction wise unlike say London Bridge rebuild.
 

swt_passenger

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Theyve come up with a pretty good plan that sees the bulk of the surface station built in the non operational space. Also once the lines are slewed the station isnt in use so they only need to maintain the four lines initially so they arent that impeded construction wise unlike say London Bridge rebuild.
As far as I can see, there’s every likelihood 3 of the 4 islands will be completed by the time of the track slue. So it’s possible that by then they can run a four track GW railway past platforms where no work is taking place at all. Or even position a couple of the four tracks temporarily midway between pairs of platform faces, allowing work on those platforms to continue with only limited risk to passing trains or workers.
 
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Hophead

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A big clue as to HS2's overspends is revealed in a report on Old Oak Common in today's Independent:

The first high-speed platforms at the railway station slated to become Britain’s busiest have been constructed at Old Oak Common.

The six new completed platforms, which are 450m underground, were revealed as part of the HS2 expansion on 13 August.
(my bold)

Wow! Would that make them the deepest platforms in the world? That'll be some escalator! Just think of the gradients. :lol:

I wonder if Natalie Wilson paused to consider what she wrote? While she hasn't simply copy & pasted the HS2 press release which mentions "The six 450m underground platforms", I don't think she's fully understood what they've written.
 

zwk500

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I wonder if Natalie Wilson paused to consider what she wrote? While she hasn't simply copy & pasted the HS2 press release which mentions "The six 450m underground platforms", I don't think she's fully understood what they've written.
Given the state of modern journalism, I'd ask rather if she paused to read what Claude/ChatGPT spat out before copying it in...
 

Trainman40083

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A big clue as to HS2's overspends is revealed in a report on Old Oak Common in today's Independent:


(my bold)

Wow! Would that make them the deepest platforms in the world? That'll be some escalator! Just think of the gradients. :lol:

I wonder if Natalie Wilson paused to consider what she wrote? While she hasn't simply copy & pasted the HS2 press release which mentions "The six 450m underground platforms", I don't think she's fully understood what they've written.
I presume the 450 metres measurement is , the length of them.
 

swt_passenger

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Given the state of modern journalism, I'd ask rather if she paused to read what Claude/ChatGPT spat out before copying it in...
But isn’t it also the sort of predictable error the authors of the press release could have forestalled, if they’d simply written “450m long underground platforms…”
 

MPW

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I believe they are 450m deep and 20m in length. The HS2 rethink has resulted in a tunneled bus rapid transit system
 

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