HS2 Old Oak Common

[Meerkat]

Notably slide 24 shows plans for the Acton Wells Junction area, including platforms on the Dudding Hill line and an island on the West London line, as well as two possible bridge options. I've done my best to overlay the positions below:

View attachment 177148

Obviously very early designs, but I do hope the bridge would continue over OOC Lane - ideally with a covered walkway all the way to the main HS2 station.

Can I be greedy and get you to overlay that on an OOC station plan?
wondering how far the walk is….
I assume WLO regard a bridge over OOC Lane as HS2s problem (and more relevantly budget), but a pity they don’t at least have a ‘passive provision for’….
Need to find the WLO thread to discuss this presentation - closing Bollo Lane is a bold plan!

 

[zwk500]

Can I be greedy and get you to overlay that on an OOC station plan?

It basically is already - the corner of the Elizabeth line depot is visible, and the bare patch of earth is the north-western corner of the OOC HS2 station box. It's about 150m from the bridges to the HS2 site compound entrance visible on the images, and would be about 400m to the centre of the OOC site currently visible.

 

[Meerkat]

It basically is already - the corner of the Elizabeth line depot is visible, and the bare patch of earth is the north-western corner of the OOC HS2 station box. It's about 150m from the bridges to the HS2 site compound entrance visible on the images, and would be about 400m to the centre of the OOC site currently visible.

I reckon from the WLO station it would be about 600m to the HS2 platforms, with pushing another 200 if your seat is at one end of the train!
And getting on for 700m to get to a Lizzie Line train. Not a very snappy interchange! And doesn't serve the Clapham direction.

 

[Mr. SW]

I've been brushing off my private notes again. This of course predates the seminar/presentation but the salient points are still there.

A is Victoria Road
B is the WLO station
C is the NLL station
The large yellow box is the approximate layout of the HS2 station box covering the platform area and the purple train marker is about halfway along, indicated by D.


The distances are:
A->D 660m (8 minute walk)
B->D 520m (6.25min)
C->D 450m (5.5min)

That's assuming a walking speed of 5km/h. Add more if elderly, carrying luggage, dealing with screaming children, etc...

 

[Meerkat]

I've been brushing off my private notes again. This of course predates the seminar/presentation but the salient points are still there.

A is Victoria Road
B is the WLO station
C is the NLL station
The large yellow box is the approximate layout of the HS2 station box covering the platform area and the purple train marker is about halfway along, indicated by D.

View attachment 177239
The distances are:
A->D 660m (8 minute walk)
B->D 520m (6.25min)
C->D 450m (5.5min)

That's assuming a walking speed of 5km/h. Add more if elderly, carrying luggage, dealing with screaming children, etc...

And longer if you have to wait to cross what will become a very busy road rather than them continuing the bridge across.
PS doesn’t make a great deal of difference but your diagram has the bridge as a sort of average of the two in the WLO report. The one through the middle of the platforms landed further north , the other one meant walking beyond the end of the platforms to reach it.

 

[Mr. SW]

And longer if you have to wait to cross what will become a very busy road rather than them continuing the bridge across.
PS doesn’t make a great deal of difference but your diagram has the bridge as a sort of average of the two in the WLO report. The one through the middle of the platforms landed further north , the other one meant walking beyond the end of the platforms to reach it.

My plan assumes some sort of road crossing by bridge or underpass and anyway it is simply conjectural and the plan itself is about three years old.

 

[Tobberz]

Apologies if this is off-topic, but are the NLL and WLO stations being developed in-tandem? Not to use that horrific phrase, but surely "joined up thinking" between the two projects (West London Orbital, and a new NLL station) would make sense, if it's not happening already? Perhaps it could literally just be one station?

 

[Geogregor]

The distances are:
A->D 660m (8 minute walk)
B->D 520m (6.25min)
C->D 450m (5.5min)

That's assuming a walking speed of 5km/h. Add more if elderly, carrying luggage, dealing with screaming children, etc...

5.5 minutes to walk 450m? That sounds rather slow...

 

[Lewisham2221]

5.5 minutes to walk 450m? That sounds rather slow...

Not really. Average walking speed for an adult is about 3mph (source: Google told me, and I've always been aware it's around 3-4 mph anyway, further backed up by anecdotal data, anyway...)

So that would be about 20 minutes to walk about 1600m. Or 5 minutes to walk 400m. Or 1¼ minutes to walk 100m. Or 42½ seconds to walk 50m.

 

[Geogregor]

Not really. Average walking speed for an adult is about 3mph (source: Google told me, and I've always been aware it's around 3-4 mph anyway, further backed up by anecdotal data, anyway...)

So that would be about 20 minutes to walk about 1600m. Or 5 minutes to walk 400m. Or 1¼ minutes to walk 100m. Or 42½ seconds to walk 50m.

I guess I must be really fast walker then...

 

[absolutelymilk]

Not really. Average walking speed for an adult is about 3mph (source: Google told me, and I've always been aware it's around 3-4 mph anyway, further backed up by anecdotal data, anyway...)

So that would be about 20 minutes to walk about 1600m. Or 5 minutes to walk 400m. Or 1¼ minutes to walk 100m. Or 42½ seconds to walk 50m.

Rule of thumb when hiking is 1 minute per 100m (plus 1 minute per 10m height gain)

 

[Meerkat]

Rule of thumb when hiking is 1 minute per 100m (plus 1 minute per 10m height gain)

That’s 3.75mph! That seems very fast for hiking any distance

 

[Bald Rick]

Rule of thumb when hiking is 1 minute per 100m (plus 1 minute per 10m height gain)

Naismith’s law for hill walking is 2.5mph (1 minute per 66metres) and 1min per 10metre height gain. But ofcourse it varies by terrain, availability of path, weather and of course fitness. I have done walks much quicker than this, but also many much more slowly!

 

[bigbigcheese]

Now that the clocks have changed you can really see how much progress they're making on the above ground structures whilst riding past on Crossrail. It's very impressive, the new GWML platforms are coming along nicely. Found a video on Youtube that illustrates the recent progress

 

[waverley47]

Now that the clocks have changed you can really see how much progress they're making on the above ground structures whilst riding past on Crossrail. It's very impressive, the new GWML platforms are coming along nicely. Found a video on Youtube that illustrates the recent progress

Christ it's enormous.

I know we've been able to see the plans for donkeys but there is something about seeing the platforms go in that puts things in perspective

 

[Bald Rick]

Now that the clocks have changed you can really see how much progress they're making on the above ground structures whilst riding past on Crossrail. It's very impressive, the new GWML platforms are coming along nicely. Found a video on Youtube that illustrates the recent progress

Indeed - I don‘t know if it is mentioned upthread, but there is new track down for a couple of the new GWML platforms.

 

[bigbigcheese]

Will the trains have to reverse in platform at OOC, or will they be able to do something similar to the Elizabeth Line where they use the tunnel stubs to do a reversing movement?

 

[SynthD]

Will the trains have to reverse in platform at OOC, or will they be able to do something similar to the Elizabeth Line where they use the tunnel stubs to do a reversing movement?

The relief lines will have turnback sidings, see post 107 for a diagram. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-old-oak-common.240858/page-4#post-6187912

 

[The Planner]

The relief lines will have turnback sidings, see post 107 for a diagram. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-old-oak-common.240858/page-4#post-6187912

I think they mean HS2 trains.

 

[Zomboid]

What provision is there for the Ruislip line? Would anything to/from there just usr a slow line platform, or will it be kept separate?

 

[The Planner]

What provision is there for the Ruislip line? Would anything to/from there just usr a slow line platform, or will it be kept separate?

If it gets built, its a seperate bay.

 

[D365]

Apologies if this is off-topic, but are the NLL and WLO stations being developed in-tandem? Not to use that horrific phrase, but surely "joined up thinking" between the two projects (West London Orbital, and a new NLL station) would make sense, if it's not happening already? Perhaps it could literally just be one station?

This was what I had assumed myself. Certainly I was reading that a north-facing turnback siding will be provided for WLO before it joins the Richmond line.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Indeed - I don‘t know if it is mentioned upthread, but there is new track down for a couple of the new GWML platforms.

Looks like a couple of new overbridges needed though before it gets linked so seems a bit premature.

 

[jhy44]

Apologies if this is off-topic, but are the NLL and WLO stations being developed in-tandem? Not to use that horrific phrase, but surely "joined up thinking" between the two projects (West London Orbital, and a new NLL station) would make sense, if it's not happening already? Perhaps it could literally just be one station?

I think that the decision not 'properly integrate/connect' the two London Overground lines into OOC station (i.e. divert the lines and build a set of platforms in the actual same station (either adjacent, alongside, or perpendicular on a different level above/below the other platforms), was a poor one. Yes this would have added significant additional cost, but compared to the overall budget of HS2, it'd be a drop in the ocean. It's a huge lost opportunity and will come to be regretted in a few years, perhaps even rectified later at a much greater cost.

300-500 metres walk between stations might not sound like much to some, but for people with lots of luggage, pushchairs, or with mobility issues, it's enough to render it either an unsuitable or impossible connection. For people like me who live in SW London, it'll now be a no brainer to access HS2 (i) via Waterloo/Victoria and Euston, rather than (ii) via Richmond/Clapham Junction and OOC, given that the former will have a much 'better/easier/quicker' connection at Euston. A not-insignificant number of passengers could have thus been diverted away from Central London / Euston to help the projections of overcrowding at Euston and on the LU Northern Line once HS2 is operational there.

Plus of course it would have vastly improved access to the GMWL for people on the SW/Southern rail network too.

It seems like such a very silly decision which wastes so much connectivity potential to save a bit of money

 

[zwk500]

It seems like such a very silly decision which wastes so much connectivity potential to save a bit of money

Somewhat more than 'a bit'. Have a look at the map and see the geometries you're proposing, and the impact on housing and Wormwood Scrubs to fit this all in.

 

[JamesT]

Somewhat more than 'a bit'. Have a look at the map and see the geometries you're proposing, and the impact on housing and Wormwood Scrubs to fit this all in.

Also, multiple people adding things that only cost "a drop in the ocean" is how one ends up with the budget spiralling. Have the HS2 budget for HS2 and people with other projects can make their case for funding separately.

 

[zwk500]

Also, multiple people adding things that only cost "a drop in the ocean" is how one ends up with the budget spiralling. Have the HS2 budget for HS2 and people with other projects can make their case for funding separately.

Tbf, if you are doing a station over the top of HS2 it needs to be designed in from the off.

 

[BrianW]

Also, multiple people adding things that only cost "a drop in the ocean" is how one ends up with the budget spiralling. Have the HS2 budget for HS2 and people with other projects can make their case for funding separately.

Optimism encourages original cost estimates to be low, too low, in order to get approval. tendering provcesses also encourage low bids, or you don't winthe contract. 'The system' encourages such 'games' to be played. Similarly to win local and political support. 'Add-ons' of possibly lightly used connections would likely have scuppered the wholer project. OOC is iteslef a 'compromise' to connect to Heathrow for the fraction of passengers estiamated to want to gewt to Heathrow from Birmingham and the North. Heathrow existed without any rail connection for years- the closest was Hounslow West on the Piccadilly Line.
Many people walk many metres at Heathrow just to get to or from the Gate to exit, and futher to the platform ...
There's no shortage of vanity projects in the queue for the magic money tree, as well as worthy candidates for funding. Anyone for higher taxes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

Optimism encourages original cost estimates to be low, too low, in order to get approval. tendering provcesses also encourage low bids, or you don't winthe contract. 'The system' encourages such 'games' to be played. Similarly to win local and political support. 'Add-ons' of possibly lightly used connections would likely have scuppered the wholer project. OOC is iteslef a 'compromise' to connect to Heathrow for the fraction of passengers estiamated to want to gewt to Heathrow from Birmingham and the North. Heathrow existed without any rail connection for years- the closest was Hounslow West on the Piccadilly Line.
Many people walk many metres at Heathrow just to get to or from the Gate to exit, and futher to the platform ...
There's no shortage of vanity projects in the queue for the magic money tree, as well as worthy candidates for funding. Anyone for higher taxes?

In relation to the kind of (excessive?) distance people may walk from one platform (or station?) to another, I have started a reltaed thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/longest-platform-platform-interchange.284708/#post-7244980

If it's possible to estimate the distance (or time taken- with or without luggage/ infirmity) that may help further illuminate the discussions ... Thanks

 

[bigbigcheese]

The relief lines will have turnback sidings, see post 107 for a diagram. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hs2-old-oak-common.240858/page-4#post-6187912

Sorry, I meant for the HS2 trains underground. Will they have turnback sidings in the tunnel stubs, or will they just reverse in platform?

 

[Farnborough]

Really dumb question...

Has anyone had a go at placing Old Oak Common and old Oak Common Lane on the London Rail and Tube Map?

I know it's not geographically representative, but the placing of Willesden Junction on that map relative to East and North Acton - in reality only a mile or so apart - gives a false impression of the locations!