HS2-HS1 on foot

[507020]

The irony is the Midland Pullman ran from Manchester to St Pancras! Speed isn't always the first consideration, connectivity and convenience are important for many travellers.

Yes, via Bakewell! They should reopen that while they’re at it to improve links between Europe, HS1, St Pancras and the Peak District.

What is needed is “airport security” which I can’t think of a better name for in Manchester and Birmingham at the very least and a direct European loading gauge but not necessarily high speed connection from HS2 to HS1, the optimal alignment for which would be straight through Camden Town.

 

[edwin_m]

The irony is the Midland Pullman ran from Manchester to St Pancras! Speed isn't always the first consideration, connectivity and convenience are important for many travellers.

The Midland Pullman was put on mainly because the WCML was disrupted by electrification, and taken off again when it was finished.

 

[507020]

The Midland Pullman was put on mainly because the WCML was disrupted by electrification, and taken off again when it was finished.

Yes but before that, the Midland Railway and later LMS had run trains from Manchester Central to St Pancras using the MML throughout including the vital Bakewell section. It was only after the electrification of one but not the other that it could no longer compete on journey times and then Beeching arrived to start a vendetta against “duplicate routes” I believe the sentiment among drivers at the time was very much “He closed the wrong bloody route to Manchester that Beeching”

 

[MarkyT]

The links exist at St Pancras for a train to access the North London Line and thence the WCML at Primrose Hill ie the route which would have been used by the North of London Eurostars, so techincally feasible. This would not link to HS2, but would allow a 125mph Javellin connecting main centres on the WCML to St Pancras.

A station with fairly limited capacity compared to Euston. Also, the North London Line track connection goes into the international platforms, so the wrong side for a domestic service. A significantly improved pedestrian link between Euston and St Pancras is the correct answer to the problem. TfL have planned this along Phoenix Road together with a new side entrance into Euston classic station via the currently disused parcels deck. No doubt this could also be linked directly into the HS2 terminal across the classic tracks via the parcels deck.

 

[Shrop]

Yes but before that, the Midland Railway and later LMS had run trains from Manchester Central to St Pancras using the MML throughout including the vital Bakewell section. It was only after the electrification of one but not the other that it could no longer compete on journey times and then Beeching arrived to start a vendetta against “duplicate routes” I believe the sentiment among drivers at the time was very much “He closed the wrong bloody route to Manchester that Beeching"

Beeching was doing the bidding of Prime Minister MacMillan. Political bidding and transport advances almost invariably mix badly, which explains why HS2 has been so badly developed and progressed. Boris has a lot to answer for with his early enthusiasm for Heathrow as part of HS2.
Back to original thread, it's amazing that it seems beyond the wit of professionals to even find a couple of thousand pounds to provide a painted line for pedestrians follow between Euston and St.Pancras, when sums with several zeros more than this are spent in a way that leads to things like the more useful half of the HS2 project being abandoned.

 

[507020]

A station with fairly limited capacity compared to Euston. Also, the North London Line track connection goes into the international platforms, so the wrong side for a domestic service.

Capacity at St Pancras is only limited because international border controls require increased platform occupancy and going into the international platforms from Primrose Hill would be the correct side for a WCML international service.

Beeching was doing the bidding of Prime Minister MacMillan. Political bidding and transport advances almost invariably mix badly, which explains why HS2 has been so badly developed and progressed. Boris has a lot to answer for with his early enthusiasm for Heathrow as part of HS2.
Back to original thread, it's amazing that it seems beyond the wit of professionals to even find a couple of thousand pounds to provide a painted line for pedestrians follow between Euston and St.Pancras, when sums with several zeros more than this are spent in a way that leads to things like the more useful half of the HS2 project being abandoned.

I’ve been told that you can actually see St Pancras from Euston, although I haven’t been there myself yet. I can only assume that passengers are incapable of walking in a straight line from Euston to St Pancras because Euston is such a hateful brutalist concrete environment that all passengers leaving it are too disorientated.

 

[MarkyT]

Capacity at St Pancras is only limited because international border controls require increased platform occupancy and going into the international platforms from Primrose Hill would be the correct side for a WCML international service.

International border controls are not going to be relaxed any time soon and if a connecting service from WCML was to be run into the International platforms it would be subject to the same checks as if was going to reverse and go on to the continent itself. A viable connecting service needs to also carry domestic passengers. An improved pedestrian link between the stations makes every Euston arrival, whether from WCML or HS2, a connecting service to the full range of continental destinations available today and in the future from St. Pancras, as well as Kent HS1 domestics and Thameslink.

 

[plugwash]

I’ve been told that you can actually see St Pancras from Euston,

I suspect that is technically true, but highly misleading.

There does appear to be a straight line with no obstructions from the side wall of Euston to the Side wall of St pancras down Pheonix road/Brill place but it's not opposite any of the entrances to Euston and given the distances involved and the fact that the road is built up on both sides. you will be seeing a tiny patch of non-descript wall that happens to be part of St pancras.

I suspect if you stood on the roof of Euston you would

I can only assume that passengers are incapable of walking in a straight line from Euston to St Pancras because Euston is such a hateful brutalist concrete environment that all passengers leaving it are too disorientated.

In a City, unless you have a wide straight road, you can't see very far. The buildings just get in the way too much, this applies regardless of whether they are "hateful and brutalist" or whether they are buitiful architecture, it's just the nature of being in a city. British cities also tend to have roads that are not at right angles making it easy to loose track of which direction you are facing.

There are a multitude of roads heading east in the vicinity of Euston station, but only two of them actually provide a workable route through to St pancras.

* Euston Road goes through, but it's some way south of the actual rail stations. Still it's probably the "easiest" route.
* Grafton Place (roughly lined up with the bus station), goes one block to a T junction with a row of buildings and locked gates in front of you.
* Wellesly Place is a tiny stub,
* Lancing Street (opposite the steps down from the station frontage) goes about half a block before hitting locked gates and private signs.
* Dorrik way and Drummond Crescent form a loop. There is an alley called churchway from the end of the loop which takes you a bit further east. Continuing east from there you reach an unnamed alley with gates that does not appear intended for public use. Even if you could get through there you hit a dead end.
* Pheonix road does go through for pedestrains (but not cars), and forms part of the signposted walking route, if only they did a better job of signposting it.
* Polygon road takes you east as far as Brill park, but then you hit a wall.

 

[JonathanH]

Dorrik way and Drummond Crescent form a loop. There is an alley called churchway from the end of the loop which takes you a bit further east. Continuing east from there you reach an unnamed alley with gates that does not appear intended for public use. Even if you could get through there you hit a dead end.

Those gates are never shut. Using Doric Way, passing through the Ossulston Estate and then using Dangoor Walk to the south side of the Crick Institute is the easiest transfer.

 

[Shrop]

Those gates are never shut. Using Doric Way, passing through the Ossulston Estate and then using Dangoor Walk to the south side of the Crick Institute is the easiest transfer.

All this discussion about the best route, its all appreciated. BUT ... its not so straightforward for the unfamiliar, especially when pulling cases etc. And yet wouldn't it be so easy and cost very little for the authorities to provide signs or a painted line to follow. But no, they would rather pay far more than this to consultants to come up with hare-brained ideas which cost £millions, which they can then discount as too expensive or impractical.

 

[jfollows]

All this discussion about the best route, its all appreciated. BUT ... its not so straightforward for the unfamiliar, especially when pulling cases etc. And yet wouldn't it be so easy and cost very little for the authorities to provide signs or a painted line to follow. But no, they would rather pay far more than this to consultants to come up with hare-brained ideas which cost £millions, which they can then discount as too expensive or impractical.

Yes, this was exactly what I thought when I read the report above referred to in #197 . Essentially the only solution is lots of (someone else's) money which we can blame the lack of for the problem for ever.

Once I discovered the direct walking route a number of years ago I need nothing else - I have some walking impairment after a stroke but I had no problem using it with cases in tow as well. Inclement weather would be my only inhibitor. There are even helpful pedestrian crossings of the busier roads. It's great. But it still remains a big secret because a simple solution of better signage can't be implemented.

 

[zwk500]

Yes, this was exactly what I thought when I read the report above referred to in #197 . Essentially the only solution is lots of (someone else's) money which we can blame the lack of for the problem for ever.

Once I discovered the direct walking route a number of years ago I need nothing else - I have some walking impairment after a stroke but I had no problem using it with cases in tow as well. Inclement weather would be my only inhibitor. There are even helpful pedestrian crossings of the busier roads. It's great. But it still remains a big secret because a simple solution of better signage can't be implemented.

The really annoying thing about it is it's literally missing 2 signs - 1 on Euston Concourse to direct people to the start, and one at the Zebra crossing of Eversholt Street opposite Phoenix Road. The other signs are fine as confirmation you're on the right route.

I agree a painted line would be good as well, it could even be discontinuous (Just short confirmations every 10m or so). The two key points are both start points and the Eversholt Street/Phoenix Road junction. Make those 3 as obvious as you can and the middle largely fills itself in.